NY State may require nurses to obtain 4-year degrees

[Brian]

But some worry that an already severe shortage will become worse.

New York is mulling over a requirement that would force all RNs to earn a bachelor's degree in order to keep their RN certification-a step that critics worry could serve as a body blow to a profession already facing a severe shortage.

Under the state Board of Nursing proposal, RNs with associate's degrees would have to earn bachelor's degrees within 10 years, or their RN certifications would be downgraded to that of licensed practical nurse. That would make nursing somewhat like teaching in New York state; certified K-12 teachers need master's degrees or must obtain one within three years of starting a job. It would also add years and thousands of dollars to the difficulty of becoming an RN...

Full Article: http://www.rochesterdandc.com/news/0413BA3TIOG_news.shtml

[lindarn]

I'm probably not going to say anything that hasn't already been said, but as an ADN nurse, I would have no problem going back for my BSN IF the schools would "accept" my previous credits (which I feel is SO dumb anyway), IF it would be affordable (tuition reimb. is only $1000 per year where I work) and IF it would be NURSING related courses. I am all for a well-rounded education, and I do feel that arts, advanced English and History classes have their place in one's education....but if I'm going to go back to "improve" my nursing skills, then I want to spend my money on nursing classes. Unfortunately, in the schools that I have looked at to go for a BSN, I was just so disgusted by the way they wouldn't take credits, and how I'd have to retake classes and how little true nursing curriculum was present that I decided to forget it, for a while at least. It's all ridiculous, and it's all about money.

As for the thought that "BSN=more respect as a profession", I feel that those who actually believe that are really, really naive. So, if we all have BSN's then we will be treated with more respect, not be attacked, yelled at, abused by patients, doctors or management? TPTB will all of a sudden treat us like a valued part of the healthcare team? Our requests will be listened to and honored, and our opinions valued? Because we have a BSN?

Dream on, people.

I am the one who post the thread about he BSN,s. The public equates worth with education. The respect comes from having the same level of education as other health care professional. We are always apologizing for our quite substandard educational entry in to practice. In all other professions a AD degree is an entry level education. If the individual desires to attain the higher status, higher pay scales of that profession, they all manage to go back to school and get the rest of the education, or start out in school at the education level. If an individual want to be a member of a certain profession,they figure out a way to achieve, without all of the whining and complaining that nurses do. A bachelors degree is the entry into practice, or masters. I have never seen a group of individuals work so hard and fight against improving our profession and who so de- value importance of higher education than nurses. The hospitals have it all figured out. As long as nurses have less than a bachelor's degree to practice, they can resist our request to pay more for degrees and certifications. Have you noticed that they fight harder than anyone against the BSN as entry into practice? They have it all figured out.

We were an easy mark for hospitals and insurance companies when they wanted to cut their losses and decided to cut their expenses by cutting RN's at the bedside. Were higher education health care professionals cut? No, but nursing sure was. It never ceases to amaze me how naive nurses are and how they don't see the real agenda. As long as they keep nurses as blue collar trailer trash, we will always be at the bottom of the food chain. Other health care professionals started a major PR campaigns about 20 years ago, with the advent of DRG's, health care reform, etc. They made sure the public knew how important they were, and underscored it by increasing their educational entry into practice. They somehow figure out a way to pay for it. There is no way a Physical Therapist, Occupational Therapist, Social Worker, need advanced degrees to do what they do. Nurses have a hands on, need for high levels of knowledge regarding physiology, pathophysiology, hemodynamics, evaluating lag data, etc. Most nurses I speak to say it takes them more than 2 years to finish an AD in nursing. How much more effort to got for 4 years and get a BSN? As it stands now, nurses are being churned out and we are a dime a dozen. Our numbers need to be cut back by phasing out all ADN & diploma programs over the next 5 years. Get rid if LPN's and replace them with an associates degree 2 year program. They can be called "Health Care Technicians", and will assist nurses as the LPN's do now. We need also get rid of the concept of nurses aides with 6 weeks of OJT, and call them patient care technicians. Remove the title "Nurse", from all but RN's with BSN's, and the nurses who are grandfathered in.

Physical Therapy and Occupational Therapy Assistants have a 2 year entry into practice and they have far less impact on patient outcomes and care. It is a disgrace that the individuals who have the most impact on patient outcomes are the least educated. And nurses continue to whine about changing the porfession. Nurses without BSN's will be grandfathered in. Hospitals can start on- site BSN programs like they have for pharmacists (and some hospitals) who are going to a DOCTORATE as their entry into practice. PT's & OT' all have a masters and I have heard that they' re going to a doctorate as entry into practice.

What is wrong with nursing? By the time that nurses finally get their act together and realize the damage they have do to the profession, our entire career field will be in the process of being dismantled and our professional practice will be sold to the highest bidder. There will be no turning back.

Nurses need to have the additional education, not only in nursing, but they are in desparate need of education in business and economics. We are like the lambs being led to the slaughter at the bargaining table, and business decision making, because few of us have had the education in the appropriate areas. Just for the record, physical therapists, and occupational theapists ALL GET BUSINESS CLASSES IN THEIR LAST YEAR TO PREPARE THEM FOR A HEALTH CARE THAT IS MORE AND MORE BEING RUN LIKE A FORTUNE 500 BUSINESS, NOT NURSE SUSIE'S MEDICAL WARD. THEY PREPARE THEM TO BE BUSINESS OWNERS, AS NURSES SHOULD BE WITH PROFESIONAL PRACTICE GROUPS, NOT THE NURSING STAFF OF "3 WEST". Nurses will NOT survive in the NEW WORLD IF WE KEEP PRACTICING NURSING THE WAY WE HAVE FOR A CENTURY.

I have written many thread on this subject. You have not seen the threads by nurses who totally suppport what I say because they afraid to write a thread supporting my platform.They fear the nurses who respond with indignation to the idea that their diplomas and ADN's are not the future of nursing.

The rest of the health care professions are leaving nurses in the dust, and will, as now, continue to claim their larger piece if the health care dollars as they have been taught in their Bachelor's and Masters programs. They have invested much more than nurses have in an education and feel strongly that they have an education and profession to fight for amd hold onto. They hold onto their professional practice and do not allow their professional associations to give them away. They are as equally educated with their professional association leaders and aren't looked down on or intimidated. We have alot to learn.

Also, there ARE schools that accept ADN classes, and we, as nurses, have to demand that these be accepted. I was originally a diploma grad and fugured out real quick who was at the bottom of the food chain in the hospital. The people with lowest level of education. Cal State Long Beach accepted me as a diploma grad at the junior level. Their feeling was my state board exam was enough if a "challenging exam", to allow me to do that. I think that nurses may have to take on this issue at the legal level and sue, if needed, to get the schools to accept credits from ADN and diploma programs. Their is no reason not to. Sorry this is so long. I just feel that what has to be said needs to be said.

Linda, RN ,BSN, CCRN

Spokane,WA

[orrnlori, RN]

Okay, so now we are all a bunch of blue collar trailer trash. I love it.

[SmilingBluEyes]

The schools that accept ADN w/o adding a whole mess of other classes are rare, not the least of which is WSU right near there were you are........(one of the online programs I looked into and quickly dismissed due to outrageous "residency" requirements).

it's criminal how much they want us to either repeat or accomplish "in residence" just to make $$$$$$$$$$$$....... i would rack up way more credit hours than generic BSN's have. How is that reasonable or fair?????

that is all it is ....a ripoff for us. really. til they make it more affordable and REASONABLE you can bet people will fight this tooth and nail.

[leslie :-D]

I am the one who post the thread about he BSN,s. The public equates worth with education. The respect comes from having the same level of education as other health care professional. We are always apologizing for our quite substandard educational entry in to practice. In all other professions a AD degree is an entry level education. If the individual desires to attain the higher status, higher pay scales of that profession, they all manage to go back to school and get the rest of the education, or start out in school at the education level. If an individual want to be a member of a certain profession,they figure out a way to achieve, without all of the whining and complaining that nurses do. A bachelors degree is the entry into practice, or masters. I have never seen a group of individuals work so hard and fight against improving our profession and who so de- value importance of higher education than nurses. The hospitals have it all figured out. As long as nurses have less than a bachelor's degree to practice, they can resist our request to pay more for degrees and certifications. Have you noticed that they fight harder than anyone against the BSN as entry into practice? They have it all figured out.

We were an easy mark for hospitals and insurance companies when they wanted to cut their losses and decided to cut their expenses by cutting RN's at the bedside. Were higher education health care professionals cut? No, but nursing sure was. It never ceases to amaze me how naive nurses are and how they don't see the real agenda. As long as they keep nurses as blue collar trailer trash, we will always be at the bottom of the food chain. Other health care professionals started a major PR campaigns about 20 years ago, with the advent of DRG's, health care reform, etc. They made sure the public knew how important they were, and underscored it by increasing their educational entry into practice. They somehow figure out a way to pay for it. There is no way a Physical Therapist, Occupational Therapist, Social Worker, need advanced degrees to do what they do. Nurses have a hands on, need for high levels of knowledge regarding physiology, pathophysiology, hemodynamics, evaluating lag data, etc. Most nurses I speak to say it takes them more than 2 years to finish an AD in nursing. How much more effort to got for 4 years and get a BSN? As it stands now, nurses are being churned out and we are a dime a dozen. Our numbers need to be cut back by phasing out all ADN & diploma programs over the next 5 years. Get rid if LPN's and replace them with an associates degree 2 year program. They can be called "Health Care Technicians", and will assist nurses as the LPN's do now. We need also get rid of the concept of nurses aides with 6 weeks of OJT, and call them patient care technicians. Remove the title "Nurse", from all but RN's with BSN's, and the nurses who are grandfathered in.

Physical Therapy and Occupational Therapy Assistants have a 2 year entry into practice and they have far less impact on patient outcomes and care. It is a disgrace that the individuals who have the most impact on patient outcomes are the least educated. And nurses continue to whine about changing the porfession. Nurses without BSN's will be grandfathered in. Hospitals can start on- site BSN programs like they have for pharmacists (and some hospitals) who are going to a DOCTORATE as their entry into practice. PT's & OT' all have a masters and I have heard that they' re going to a doctorate as entry into practice.

What is wrong with nursing? By the time that nurses finally get their act together and realize the damage they have do to the profession, our entire career field will be in the process of being dismantled and our professional practice will be sold to the highest bidder. There will be no turning back.

Nurses need to have the additional education, not only in nursing, but they are in desparate need of education in business and economics. We are like the lambs being led to the slaughter at the bargaining table, and business decision making, because few of us have had the education in the appropriate areas. Just for the record, physical therapists, and occupational theapists ALL GET BUSINESS CLASSES IN THEIR LAST YEAR TO PREPARE THEM FOR A HEALTH CARE THAT IS MORE AND MORE BEING RUN LIKE A FORTUNE 500 BUSINESS, NOT NURSE SUSIE'S MEDICAL WARD. THEY PREPARE THEM TO BE BUSINESS OWNERS, AS NURSES SHOULD BE WITH PROFESIONAL PRACTICE GROUPS, NOT THE NURSING STAFF OF "3 WEST". Nurses will NOT survive in the NEW WORLD IF WE KEEP PRACTICING NURSING THE WAY WE HAVE FOR A CENTURY.

I have written many thread on this subject. You have not seen the threads by nurses who totally suppport what I say because they afraid to write a thread supporting my platform.They fear the nurses who respond with indignation to the idea that their diplomas and ADN's are not the future of nursing.

The rest of the health care professions are leaving nurses in the dust, and will, as now, continue to claim their larger piece if the health care dollars as they have been taught in their Bachelor's and Masters programs. They have invested much more than nurses have in an education and feel strongly that they have an education and profession to fight for amd hold onto. They hold onto their professional practice and do not allow their professional associations to give them away. They are as equally educated with their professional association leaders and aren't looked down on or intimidated. We have alot to learn.

Also, there ARE schools that accept ADN classes, and we, as nurses, have to demand that these be accepted. I was originally a diploma grad and fugured out real quick who was at the bottom of the food chain in the hospital. The people with lowest level of education. Cal State Long Beach accepted me as a diploma grad at the junior level. Their feeling was my state board exam was enough if a "challenging exam", to allow me to do that. I think that nurses may have to take on this issue at the legal level and sue, if needed, to get the schools to accept credits from ADN and diploma programs. Their is no reason not to. Sorry this is so long. I just feel that what has to be said needs to be said.

Linda, RN ,BSN, CCRN

Spokane,WA

i'm sorry linda but the only thing i agree with is that we probably should be taking some business courses since healthcare is turning into a fortune 500 company....not a pleasant truth but nonetheless, a truth. if i am reading your thread correctly, it sounds like a bunch of pretentious, elitist crap. i agree with standardizing nsg. education but to equate adn's w/trailer park trash is the most short-sighted perspective i've heard in a long time.

[CougRN]

I am the one who post the thread about he BSN,s. The public equates worth with education. The respect comes from having the same level of education as other health care professional. We are always apologizing for our quite substandard educational entry in to practice. In all other professions a AD degree is an entry level education. If the individual desires to attain the higher status, higher pay scales of that profession, they all manage to go back to school and get the rest of the education, or start out in school at the education level. If an individual want to be a member of a certain profession,they figure out a way to achieve, without all of the whining and complaining that nurses do. A bachelors degree is the entry into practice, or masters. I have never seen a group of individuals work so hard and fight against improving our profession and who so de- value importance of higher education than nurses. The hospitals have it all figured out. As long as nurses have less than a bachelor's degree to practice, they can resist our request to pay more for degrees and certifications. Have you noticed that they fight harder than anyone against the BSN as entry into practice? They have it all figured out.

We were an easy mark for hospitals and insurance companies when they wanted to cut their losses and decided to cut their expenses by cutting RN's at the bedside. Were higher education health care professionals cut? No, but nursing sure was. It never ceases to amaze me how naive nurses are and how they don't see the real agenda. As long as they keep nurses as blue collar trailer trash, we will always be at the bottom of the food chain. Other health care professionals started a major PR campaigns about 20 years ago, with the advent of DRG's, health care reform, etc. They made sure the public knew how important they were, and underscored it by increasing their educational entry into practice. They somehow figure out a way to pay for it. There is no way a Physical Therapist, Occupational Therapist, Social Worker, need advanced degrees to do what they do. Nurses have a hands on, need for high levels of knowledge regarding physiology, pathophysiology, hemodynamics, evaluating lag data, etc. Most nurses I speak to say it takes them more than 2 years to finish an AD in nursing. How much more effort to got for 4 years and get a BSN? As it stands now, nurses are being churned out and we are a dime a dozen. Our numbers need to be cut back by phasing out all ADN & diploma programs over the next 5 years. Get rid if LPN's and replace them with an associates degree 2 year program. They can be called "Health Care Technicians", and will assist nurses as the LPN's do now. We need also get rid of the concept of nurses aides with 6 weeks of OJT, and call them patient care technicians. Remove the title "Nurse", from all but RN's with BSN's, and the nurses who are grandfathered in.

Physical Therapy and Occupational Therapy Assistants have a 2 year entry into practice and they have far less impact on patient outcomes and care. It is a disgrace that the individuals who have the most impact on patient outcomes are the least educated. And nurses continue to whine about changing the porfession. Nurses without BSN's will be grandfathered in. Hospitals can start on- site BSN programs like they have for pharmacists (and some hospitals) who are going to a DOCTORATE as their entry into practice. PT's & OT' all have a masters and I have heard that they' re going to a doctorate as entry into practice.

What is wrong with nursing? By the time that nurses finally get their act together and realize the damage they have do to the profession, our entire career field will be in the process of being dismantled and our professional practice will be sold to the highest bidder. There will be no turning back.

Nurses need to have the additional education, not only in nursing, but they are in desparate need of education in business and economics. We are like the lambs being led to the slaughter at the bargaining table, and business decision making, because few of us have had the education in the appropriate areas. Just for the record, physical therapists, and occupational theapists ALL GET BUSINESS CLASSES IN THEIR LAST YEAR TO PREPARE THEM FOR A HEALTH CARE THAT IS MORE AND MORE BEING RUN LIKE A FORTUNE 500 BUSINESS, NOT NURSE SUSIE'S MEDICAL WARD. THEY PREPARE THEM TO BE BUSINESS OWNERS, AS NURSES SHOULD BE WITH PROFESIONAL PRACTICE GROUPS, NOT THE NURSING STAFF OF "3 WEST". Nurses will NOT survive in the NEW WORLD IF WE KEEP PRACTICING NURSING THE WAY WE HAVE FOR A CENTURY.

I have written many thread on this subject. You have not seen the threads by nurses who totally suppport what I say because they afraid to write a thread supporting my platform.They fear the nurses who respond with indignation to the idea that their diplomas and ADN's are not the future of nursing.

The rest of the health care professions are leaving nurses in the dust, and will, as now, continue to claim their larger piece if the health care dollars as they have been taught in their Bachelor's and Masters programs. They have invested much more than nurses have in an education and feel strongly that they have an education and profession to fight for amd hold onto. They hold onto their professional practice and do not allow their professional associations to give them away. They are as equally educated with their professional association leaders and aren't looked down on or intimidated. We have alot to learn.

Also, there ARE schools that accept ADN classes, and we, as nurses, have to demand that these be accepted. I was originally a diploma grad and fugured out real quick who was at the bottom of the food chain in the hospital. The people with lowest level of education. Cal State Long Beach accepted me as a diploma grad at the junior level. Their feeling was my state board exam was enough if a "challenging exam", to allow me to do that. I think that nurses may have to take on this issue at the legal level and sue, if needed, to get the schools to accept credits from ADN and diploma programs. Their is no reason not to. Sorry this is so long. I just feel that what has to be said needs to be said.

Linda, RN ,BSN, CCRN

Spokane,WA

Great post Linda. I couldn't agree more with just about everything you said. I do think the "trailer trash" comment will be lost on a lot of people on this board but I understand your meaning. Too bad we are in the minority in this belief in higher education. That's why I'm off to grad school.

[Energizer Bunny]

And more insults....isn't it time to close this thread?

[orrnlori, RN]

Great post Linda. I couldn't agree more with just about everything you said. I do think the "trailer trash" comment will be lost on a lot of people on this board but I understand your meaning. Too bad we are in the minority in this belief in higher education. That's why I'm off to grad school.

I'm off to grad school too. But not everyone who goes to grad school agrees with this. And the message is lost in the tone and words big time here. If you want more nurses to agree with your thinking, you need to use language that doesn't alienate 60+% of the number of people you are trying to convince. Business classes? I happen to agree. It's all the other garbage that comes with the "higher education" you are espousing that causes people problems. Your argument totally dismisses what has been posted here over and over and over and that is that too much of "higher education" in nursing is lost in garbage classes, other education is tossed out the window by the powers that be, a huge number of nurses come into the profession in their 30's and 40's not teens and 20's, and accessibility to the education is lacking in many areas, etc. etc. etc. Excuses? Try the word "reasons", try "common sense". When you demean those among you with such disparaging words, you will never win them over.

[LadyT618, MSN, APRN, NP]

As it stands now, nurses are being churned out and we are a dime a dozen. Our numbers need to be cut back by phasing out all ADN & diploma programs over the next 5 years. Get rid if LPN's and replace them with an associates degree 2 year program. They can be called "Health Care Technicians", and will assist nurses as the LPN's do now. We need also get rid of the concept of nurses aides with 6 weeks of OJT, and call them patient care technicians. Remove the title "Nurse", from all but RN's with BSN's, and the nurses who are grandfathered in.

Hospitals can start on- site BSN programs like they have for pharmacists (and some hospitals) who are going to a DOCTORATE as their entry into practice. PT's & OT' all have a masters and I have heard that they' re going to a doctorate as entry into practice.

Also, there ARE schools that accept ADN classes, and we, as nurses, have to demand that these be accepted. I think that nurses may have to take on this issue at the legal level and sue, if needed, to get the schools to accept credits from ADN and diploma programs. Their is no reason not to. Sorry this is so long. I just feel that what has to be said needs to be said.

Linda, RN ,BSN, CCRN

Spokane,WA

The numbers you refer to in the first paragraph of this quote, are they the number of nurses, cause I definitely agree the numbers will be more than cut back if they do away with ADN and diploma nursing programs. I'd love to see the state of affairs if they were to do that. Let's see where all the "Become A Nurse" campaigns would go. Your ideas are, to say the least, quite interesting.

I would really like to know where these hospitals are that have BSN programs on site, cause I'm sure if there were many, nurses would not be complaining as much. Just notice I said AS MUCH. One of the issues as I'm sure you know, is convenience.

I love the whole idea of us as nurses demanding that schools accept our ADN classes and that we must sue, if need be, to get this accomplished. I'm sure the nurses out there who don't have the time or money to go for their BSNs, because of their hectic schedules and several life responsibilities, have the time and money to hire attorneys to sue these schools that do not accept their ADN classes. If only all were so fortunate. Or maybe you mean the different nursing organizations can sue on our behalf. I think not, since they are the ones in favor of great ol' BSN to pave the way!!

JMO

[jkaee]

Great post Linda. I couldn't agree more with just about everything you said. I do think the "trailer trash" comment will be lost on a lot of people on this board but I understand your meaning. Too bad we are in the minority in this belief in higher education. That's why I'm off to grad school.

No, CougRN, I don't think the trailer trash comment was lost on a lot of people, but I do think that it certainly discredited the OP quite a bit. I don't think ANYONE that posted is against higher education, IF it was easier to obtain and more reasonable. As a matter of fact, my husband is going soon to take his first actuary test this month (and if you want to talk "higher education", you should see the math that he's studying) but he did not have to go thru half the stuff that I would have to if I went back for my BSN. In fact, the majority of it was completed on his own. I would go back for my BSN at some point if it weren't for the reasons I listed in my previous post. The PROBLEM comes when those with "higher education" look down with scorn to those of us who can't afford to go to school, or don't have the time or the means to do so. They aren't excuses, it's REALITY. I have 3 young kids and one on the way. I work 5 evenings every 2 weeks, my husband works full time with over an hour commute to and from work. My main job in life is a mother, not a nurse. I'm not going to look back on my life and say, "Boy, I sure do wish I spent less time with my children and husband and more time going off to grad school...." And I know my kids want a mom that's there for them, and not one that has a list of initials after her name. And if nursing ever comes to that point, or if I have to "downgrade" my title, then the profession is going to lose one damn good nurse, because I'll be leaving.

[Q.]

The public equates worth with education. The respect comes from having the same level of education as other health care professional. We are always apologizing for our quite substandard educational entry in to practice. In all other professions a AD degree is an entry level education.

I agree with this completely.

This whole argument really wears me down and I'm convinced that nursing as a profession will never change in my lifetime.

I've stated before that as much as nurses try to justify their knowledge in some obscure way that the public could care less about, we need to have a common language to denote that and, like it or not, that common language is a Bachelor's degree. Right or wrong, our society and businesses assign worth to Bachelor's degrees. We can choose to work with it, or we can work against it, which we've been doing since nursing's founding and look how far it's gotten us. We're still seen as substandard, we're still seen as uneducated pink collar, technical workers who follow orders and can barely communicate intelligently in a meeting. Nurses are routinely UNinvited to the bargaining table and are RARELY taken seriously and RARELY consulted about anything regarding our OWN practice because we're seen as stupid and frankly, the behavior I've seen from some nurses in meetings is enough to embarass me for a lifetime.

To the poster who doubts that a BS will gain us even a smidgen of respect: what do we have now? You say we have docs yelling at us, etc, etc. So we know what DOES contribute to that mindset which is our current situation; why not try something different and standardize nursing education?

I've never seen a group who devalues education and seems to think they are above it more than nurses. Talk about eliticism - you think that academia has that attitude? I wholly disagree. I think that crossing one's arms in stubborn defiance, demanding exceptions to the norm, devaluing credentials and claiming that while a BS is needed for this other professon, it's not needed for nursing because nursing is just so different and unique. Why, nurses don't NEED that! And by golly, if you're going to demand that nurses have this senseless credential, then gosh darn you better make sure that - AGAIN - exceptions are made for ME that are not made for OTHER professions: (cost, accessibility, etc)

I think THAT, my friends, is the epitome of eliticism right there.

[SmilingBluEyes]

No, CougRN, I don't think the trailer trash comment was lost on a lot of people, but I do think that it certainly discredited the OP quite a bit. I don't think ANYONE that posted is against higher education, IF it was easier to obtain and more reasonable. As a matter of fact, my husband is going soon to take his first actuary test this month (and if you want to talk "higher education", you should see the math that he's studying) but he did not have to go thru half the stuff that I would have to if I went back for my BSN. In fact, the majority of it was completed on his own. I would go back for my BSN at some point if it weren't for the reasons I listed in my previous post. The PROBLEM comes when those with "higher education" look down with scorn to those of us who can't afford to go to school, or don't have the time or the means to do so. They aren't excuses, it's REALITY. I have 3 young kids and one on the way. I work 5 evenings every 2 weeks, my husband works full time with over an hour commute to and from work. My main job in life is a mother, not a nurse. I'm not going to look back on my life and say, "Boy, I sure do wish I spent less time with my children and husband and more time going off to grad school...." And I know my kids want a mom that's there for them, and not one that has a list of initials after her name. And if nursing ever comes to that point, or if I have to "downgrade" my title, then the profession is going to lose one damn good nurse, because I'll be leaving.

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh a voice of reason!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No one here disparages higher education, no one! Thank you for noticing this!

But getting it accomplished without a lot of barriers, be they time, money, distance, or convenience, NEEDS to be done IF we are going to get the "other 60%" to buy into this. Why can't so many see this?

People say "who cares about so and and so in Podunk, or whether she can access BSN education or not?" I say you have to, if you want to press forward with this. The USA is much more dense, population-wise, than Canada is, and our education systems are very different. Even our rural areas net many potential students who can't travel 2 hours to go to school. Comparing Canada to the USA in this way be a bad move unless we adapt to our differences, not automatically adopt their methods. We do differ a bit demographically and in education systems, it would appear.

In order to make all BSN a reality, we HAVE GOT TO ADDRESS AND REMOVE BARRIERS TO MAKING IT HAPPEN. And that would include those for "Mary in Podunk, Oklahoma", who cannot afford the time and money to drive 150 miles to university to go to school! Helloooooooooooooooooo, the majority of current nurses in practice are over 30. I dont' have to tell you all what that means. Most have families to feed, bills to pay and LIVES TO LIVE outside university education. WE need to stop comparing nursing to OT, PT, MD, and other occupations. Our sheer numbers alone, and our aging demographic, make this a very different situation and arena in which to talk all university education. I say again, we need to do it SMART or not at all.

[mattsmom81]

It isn't elitism for AD and diploma RN's to say "don't devalue me...I've been a practicing RN for years and worked hard for that credential". That's just plain old self respect. Something more nurses should aspire to, IMO, rather than going along with some agenda that states you're only good enough with BSN after your name.

I DO agree with BSN as entry level for the future of nursing and will support this should it be decided. But throwing out all the good RN's currently out there, 'demoting' them is ridiculous. The current practice of BSN programs is to devalue most other forms of nursing education. Most of my Diploma courses are disregarded...even those I took through a university (beside the premeds, prePT's, etc), because they are associated with a diploma nursing program!! THIS kind of stuff IS elitism.

I will say this one more time and quit. To imply diploma and AD nurses 'should be' willing to go back to college fulltime for 3 yrs or so for the 'good of the profession' is obnoxious. :angryfire