Nursing school: Bizarre practice in learning to bed bath..

[Cat_RN]

This is too much:

My significant other came home the other day from nursing school (3rd day) stating that he is going to need to bring his bathing suit to school because they are learning to give bed baths and will be practicing on EACH OTHER. I honestly didn't believe him but he insists that it's true, and that he's heard from more than one instructor that they really will be stripped down to bathing suits and literally, bathing EACH OTHER with soap and water.

I find this astounding that in this day and age, an accredited (community) college would ever think this is appropriate practice to use as a learning tool! I can think of so many things wrong with this on so many levels- for starters, it's a total invasion of privacy, degrading, embarrassing, unprofessional, and at the very least, simply ineffective! (How are they going to proper peri-care? That is something VERY important that I feel isn't emphasized enough on in schools).

Apparently the justification for the practice is that 'the dummies can't get wet'. (No kidding, that's why every other nursing school used dry cloths to 'pretend' bathe). No one I know has ever heard of this. I've informally polled people at work and they all think it's just as bizarre as I do. Disturbing, really.

I will be contacting, (anonymously), the school to inquire what this is all about. I really cannot thinking of a worthy justification for it, other than knowing how it feels to be 'exposed' as a patient??

i just don't know.

Has anyone else heard of this type of thing? I just can't imagine being bathed by my classmates! Even when we learned how to apply EKG's we had the right to volunteer NOT to be a subject (I wasn't). I'm super modest! He even said that there is a quite heavy set girl in the class who is very mortified by this.

[leslie :-D]

do you make your employees come to the company picnic and wear a bathing suit? do you tell them they have to wear a bathing suit at the company picnic or be fired? your employees are being given a choice to come to the outing and wear a bathing suit or not. the student must participate, or be "fired," i.e. flunked out. not quite the same.

you just cannot compare the stress levels betw nsg students and pts.

they are entirely different situations, with their own unique set of stressors.

just as pts often have to 'deal' with their fears/anxieties, so must nsg students.

that is the only commonality.

happy2learn already said the rest of what i was thinking when i was reading your post. i have a lot of empathy for my pts. i work icu, we bathe a lot of sedated pts, and i still cover their bodies, even though they don't know what i'm doing, and even though my coworkers wouldn't. it's the right thing to do. and i've been the pt, too, so i know what it is like.

:paw:

i wish all nurses were like you and happytolearn re protecting a pt's dignity.

but they're not.

some/many are downright insensitive.

middleager's point is a valid one, and if the nurse won't advocate for their pt, the pt is left having to advocate for themself.

and not all pts are assertive enough to stand up for themselves.

i have a huge mouth with a temper, so i never had a problem asserting myself...

yet i can't imagine the stress/anxiety levels of those who feel they must suck it up.

i wish they remembered that pts have rights too.

i would encourage any seriously upset pt, to ask their nurse for a copy of the pt's bill of rights.

leslie

[happy2learn]

i wish all nurses were like you and happytolearn re protecting a pt's dignity.

but they're not.

some/many are downright insensitive.

middleager's point is a valid one, and if the nurse won't advocate for their pt, the pt is left having to advocate for themself.

and not all pts are assertive enough to stand up for themselves.

i have a huge mouth with a temper, so i never had a problem asserting myself...

yet i can't imagine the stress/anxiety levels of those who feel they must suck it up.

i wish they remembered that pts have rights too.

i would encourage any seriously upset pt, to ask their nurse for a copy of the pt's bill of rights.

leslie

i agree. i'm sure many are. it's a shame too. we're all humans and we all have the right to privacy and not having our concerns about such being downplayed.

my na teacher did it too. there was a resident that we were doing peri care on. this resident could not talk or move. i draped the bath blanket like a tent and put a towel around her legs and pulled the sheets over her feet. if you walked in, you wouldn't be able to see what was exposed. but it was exposed enough that i could do the care. my na teacher pulls the bath blanket up to her chest and takes the towels off her legs. i felt so bad, she kept shivering and had goosebumps. i was quick in my demo and as soon as she left, i put everything how i had it. sorry, but even if she can't talk or move, she has the right to privacy. she told us it was okay to do in class, but did the opposite at clinical.

[ChrisRN1983]

WOWZER! Yeah, if that happened to me in nursing school I would ran for the hills.

I'm not particularly modest, but do have a sister with body image issues and I just think that whole situation is a recipe for disaster! I'm shocked to hear about so many others who did similar things!

[ChrisRN1983]

I honestly don't get what the big deal is. If you have that poor of a body image that you don't want to expose your arms and legs for ten minutes, you need therapy.

I had to do it in CNA class. We wore tank tops and shorts. Those that felt uncomfortable because of body image generally got over it by the time we did demonstrations. If you're doing the bed bath correctly, you'll only show one limb at a time anyway. I doubt anyone does perineal care except on mannequins anymore.

As for infection control, you are BEING WASHED. Honestly, come up with something that makes sense.

For all of those out there that are getting hysterical over this, why? Seriously, I would like to know your reasoning.

Honestly, I don't think that people that don't have an issue with this can judge others for having an issue because when it comes to your own body, it just doesn't matter what other people think. If you are not comfortable and it is your body then enough said. I don't understand what you guys don't understand about people thinking this is an invasion of privacy and crosses numerous boundaries. I was taught to respect other people's bodies and to that includes how they feel about them.

I am shocked at the way people are being so insensitive. The fact is, it IS a big deal for some people...so deal with it.

[mykrosphere]

when i was in nursing school (graduated in 2000), we had a basic nursing skills class and lab, and that was one of the first skills/ things we had to do.

we (students) did not have to be "the patient", but we had to bring in a person to assess and then get graded by the instructor. (they had to strip down to a gown or boxers or whatever minimal clothing)

i fortunately had a willing participant in the form of a significant other. it was still pretty strange and uncomfortable, but we all managed to get through it somehow.

i think its an invaluable experience. school/ learning should be about opening your eyes to things you may or may have not seen, or felt. esp. with real people....

this definetly qualifies as one of those things!

nursing school is an eye opening experience for sure.

and i am so glad i am not in school right now:sstrs:

[Batman25]

We did it in tanks and shorts. It was fairly quick and we had some fun with it. I thought it was a great task and learning on an actual person who can give feedback, feel cold, exposed, etc. was a good thing because you learned how to cover and manuever more efficiently.

[middleager]

While I did not say they would be termed for not wearing a bathing suit, I have termed trainees for not being able to complete the skills needed in their job area such as accurate accounting or poor customer skills. It depends on what skills are releveant for different jobs. Let me explain my use of the term down play. What i was referring to was trying to infer expecting a student to do this was not the same as expecting a patient to, inference worse for the student. I would guess, and its just a guess that if you asked 100 people would they be more uncomfortable with someone you know doing a pusedo bed bath avoiding peri while you were in a swim suit or having a stranger do a real one while you were naked, I would bet the majority would feel the nudity was worse. The inference was it wasn't as big a deal for patients as students. My point(s) are yes I believe it is just as stressful for a patient and (2) that is really something the person submitting to it makes the call on, we can not make that call for others. I honestly feel this is somewhat a us and them (providers/patient) and I do not mean that condemning, it is only natural that you would have an elevated level of concern for those we know, we all do. i love all kids, but I would lay my life down for my kids without heistation. Doesn;t make you bad, but its important to realize that your perception its easier for a patient than a student may be telling you something. If someone said I have strong feelings against doing this, I understand how hard it is for paitents I would have no problem. You don't have to go through it to feel for your patients, but saying its easier for a patient to do this because they don't know the provider ignores all of the other issues. While there have been a few nurses on other posts that really discounted patients feelings and modesty, I have been heartened by the compassion and understanding the majority have expressed. That has also been my personal experience. As I sat with my father in his final days I saw two different scenerio's in changing his gown. One nurse walked in whipped off the gown and replaced it while my mother, sister, and i were there, at that stage he was in and out of conciousness, several days latter he was no longer returning to conciousness and was in his last hours, a nurse came in, laid a gown over him and removed the old one from under never exposing him though he was completely out...I will never forget her compassion and concern, that I believe is the vast majority of nurses. My intent here was simply to provide the other side, you may feel its harder for a student in a bathing suit, I would suggest to the patient its not...and when it all comes down to it, isn't it relative and isn't the view of the person being bathed..student or patient that should make that call.

[nursel56]

. . . As I sat with my father in his final days I saw two different scenerio's in changing his gown. One nurse walked in whipped off the gown and replaced it while my mother, sister, and i were there, at that stage he was in and out of conciousness, several days latter he was no longer returning to conciousness and was in his last hours, a nurse came in, laid a gown over him and removed the old one from under never exposing him though he was completely out...I will never forget her compassion and concern, that I believe is the vast majority of nurses. My intent here was simply to provide the other side, you may feel its harder for a student in a bathing suit, I would suggest to the patient its not...and when it all comes down to it, isn't it relative and isn't the view of the person being bathed..student or patient that should make that call.

Having recently lost my mother, I can certainly relate to your heightened sensitivities with regard to these highly emotional issues. After my mother passed away, I was sitting there holding her hand, and the housekeeping lady came in, looked at my mother and I, took out her clean trash bag, and snapped it open right next to me ear, a foot away from my mom's feet. That motion, and the jarring noise snap noise felt like a horrible and traumatizing thing to me. Frankly now I wonder if it was a loud noise, or my emotional perceptions were altered in that moment. My point to relating this- we cannot know ahead of time how anyone may feel about issues of patient dignity. I know the housekeeping lady didn't intend for her simple action to disturb me so much. As nurses we are taught from day one to behave like the second nurse who laid the clean gown over your dad before removing the old one. I'm sure you deeply appreciated the nurse who was so compassionate. Those who treat our loved ones with care carve deep feelings of appreciation. I know.

I'm hyper-sensitive to the way I touch patients and the importance of providing as much privacy and dignity as possible. As I said, it is interwoven into everything we're taught to do. Gather supplies. Approach the patient. Explain what you are going to do. Provide privacy.

I object to the bed bath ritual because, essentially, most of the reasons people advocate it have little to do with the step by step process itself. A course of study should have a clear cut goal with measurable outcomes. Clearly, those advocating for the bad bath exercise are not talking about towels and washcloths as they are vague notions of proving one's mettle as a nurse, overcoming body dysmorphic disorder, or finding out if you are the suspicious type within your relationship.

I don't think immersion therapy(unintended double entendre!) with non-professional nursing students who are not in any way qualified to identify or treat these issues and having it sprung as a surprise is a good idea at all! I am empathizing with those paralyzed by anxiety, or even considering dropping out of school over this! I personally had no problem with it years ago! I don't have a big ole scar or skin tags or vitiligo. I use my mind to imagine how stressful that would be.

Should there be a course in nursing school with the expressed purpose of having nurses "know what it's like to be a patient"? Should a nursing student certify that all things for which she may need therapy have been addressed before she graduates? Maybe. I don't know. But if you are going to do it, do it right, do it with sensitivity, and let people know what the heck they're getting into instead of couching it as a "skills" lesson.

[laughing weasel]

There are better ways to learn and practice empathy. It would not bother me (I lost all modesty ages ago) but I would not want any one I love to have to do somthing that makes them uncomfortable and embarrassed. I thought as a society we were trying to get away from embarrassment and shame as tools for training/teaching?

[cherrybreeze, ADN, RN]

We did not have to do this, and I disagree with any cirriculum that requires it. The setting is so far removed from the actual nurse/pt relationship that "empathy teaching" is irrelevant. How can we expect our patients to "do something we wouldn't do?" They are our PATIENTS. I've been a patient, and in that role, know what it's like to have modesty taken away. If someone has to LEARN that kind of empathy....well, IMO, it can't be learned. You either have it, or you don't. The people that don't respect a patient's privacy and dignity today, didn't "learn" it in such an exercise. They properly draped, etc, to get a passing grade. Period.

[Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN]

Esme12 I appreciate your points but I still disagree, no I haven't seen my employees nude, but then again (1) as I understand the requirement was bathing suits and shorts not nude and at our company outing every summer I have seem many in bathing suits. (2) what you have chosen to do for a living is a long way from what I am doing, I have never told one of my customers to remove their clothes or that I am going to give them an enema or insert a catheter either.

My point was very simply, if you find this practice so offensive to the point where you will not do it, how can you ask a patient to do even more and not see the problem.

.

As a patient, it is common practice to be in a gown. In school I am a student..My expectaton in school is I keep my clothes on and I don't have to get wet! It's school for heavens sake!

Not wanting to do it is completely understandable. It has been my experience, and please understand I am not saying all providers, but the care giving system in general, will try to convince patients to conform to their protocol not jump to the side of the paitent. If a patient said I would feel more comfortable with same gender, or I hate these gowns, is the first thought OK or is it to try to use various techmiques to get them to comply. And for sure SOP more often then not has very good valid reasons, but there are more than enough cases where it doesn't, and when it doesn't does concern for patient comfort override.

Unfortunately......there isn't always the right gender in the facility:crying2: But I always tried to accomodate.

Perhaps this is all goes back to a main point that most patients will agree on, being a patient in these situations is no less stressful and uncomfortable than being a nursing student. It seems to us that our level of stress over these situations is being downplayed compare to when it is a provider. I am not saying the students should be forced to submit to that, if I gave that impression I apologize, I am asking that you recognize a patients experience is no less stressful. ( I know it is difficult being a patient, but I didn't need to get a bed bath in school to teach me that, it was good manners and common decency that my Mom gave me, manners matter)

That is the man issue to me here, this is not more of an issue than what you are asking your patients to do just because its you and other students and not us and you. And no I haven't given birth, but I am not sure what that has to do with the issue anymore than you have never had a prostate exam or been on a table stipped with 5 nurses of the opposite gender standing around. Well said!!!!! I stand corrected My comment was tongue in cheek Sorry if I come of rude and condemning that is not my intent. I do hope to at least shed some light on at least considering there is a bit of an us and them attitude in this topic, that is something to atleast be aware of. Sorry if I offened you, not my intent I just appreciate the opportunity to exchange thoughts and viewpoints and I do appreciate what you all do

NO offense taken!!!!!!

I have recently joined the ranks of a professional patient. I have dermatomyositis/polymyositis and what I though was Multiple sclerosis is probable Mysthenia Gravis with a complication of pulmonary hypertension due to pulmonary fibrosis from long being misdiagnosed. I am at present, much to my dismay and chagrin:mad:, wheelchair bound, and have to ask for help to which I find particulary frustrating. But, I have always sought to keep my patients integrity and privacy and I didn't need to be given a bed bath in school either (I was 18 at the time) I have always attempted To maintain their individual needs first and foremost. I have dressed vented patinet in their own night clothes as much as I possibly could because I think a majority of the rules are bunk! I as a patient seldom if ever wear a patient gown and when I demand for them to give me one good reason I usually get a smile and a "Ok you win" I have snuck a pizza and beer and a woman's children in to an ICU because she was dying of ovariian cancer and some mental giant talked her into a massive surgery so she could sit in a chair longer around her children because she was not going to leave the hospital and that is what she wanted when I asked her......."What do you really want right now....this minute" (got busted by the nuns by the way)

I know you meant no offense.......sometimes the typed word misses the point. The point I was trying to make was that Instead of torturing the students. Teach them manners, compassion, common decency, common sense. We now have nurses that are taking pictures of patients and posting them on the internet!!! Professionalism,decorum,and just plain common decency..........Do onto others as you would have them do unto you...........:) If htat was your ...MOm,Dad,child what would you do?????

[Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN]

Do you make your employees come to the company picnic and wear a bathing suit? Do you tell them they have to wear a bathing suit at the company picnic or be fired? Your employees are being given a choice to come to the outing and wear a bathing suit or not. The student must participate, or be "fired," i.e. flunked out. Not quite the same.

Happy2learn already said the rest of what I was thinking when I was reading your post. I have a lot of empathy for my pts. I work ICU, we bathe a lot of sedated pts, and I still cover their bodies, even though they don't know what I'm doing, and even though my coworkers wouldn't. It's the right thing to do. And I've been the pt, too, so I know what it is like.

:paw:

I carry on complete converstions with someone even when they have expired and I am giving post mortem care!