The most common myth I have heard is this one. In an unnamed ITU it was noted, with great concern that on a particular weekday (let us say Thursday) that patients were dying with alarming regularity.
The management looked into this of course. It was discovered that Thursday was the cleaner's day for doing a deep-clean.
Of course! The cleaners were UNPLUGGING THE RESPIRATORS to plug in their vacuum cleaners:eek:
Deemed unsuitable? Is that the long form of the initials DNR is the US? Meaning "do not resuscitate"=DNR as "deemed unsuitable"=DU?
How can a nurse determine if a patient should be resuscitated or not? Making a decision like that gets you into the area of prognosis, within the doctor's scope of practice, not the nurses (at least here). I would be very uncomfortable if that were my mother, father or child.
So taking the decision of whether or not to bring someone back who arrests(this discussion is about those without advance directives-in those cases it should be obvious what to do) is not the decision of the patient or the family member, but one person, who doesn't have to be a doctor at all, is not paternalistic, and gives the patient more autonomy than leaving the decision in the hands of the patient themselves, or their next of kin?
Wow. First, it's hard to understand how the man could be considered "her patient" at the hospital door, because presumably he would be either a)arriving at the hospital b)leaving the hospital through discharge c)attempting to escape from the hospital If you are allowed to walk to radiology or the lab by yourself for tests and collapse on the way, I can see how it would be a problem.
I don't know how it works in the UK, but here "criminal charges" are brought by the state or country. Civil charges are brought by families. So you are saying that your government in some form or other prosecuted their own nurse for saving someone's life? All I can say to that is yikes! I would think the public would find that an outrageous waste of resources and really sends the wrong message especially when there are so many real criminal cases to bring.
ps- I'm not superstitious, I wouldn't care if a herd of black cats crossed my path, I break mirrors on a regular basis, but I'm still freaked by the number 13, don't know why---- and it figures prominently in my Social Security number!!!!
Ok I dont know how to quote in little bubbles so I will just say my bit here!
Firstly no, deemed unsuitable is just the term I decided to use to say that the patient had not been named DNR but should have been. DNR means the same thing here.
The second bit, its not a random nurse that makes the decision, the situation I was takling about was a patient in the community who is perhaps only in contact with the district nurses, a senior district nurse, eg a nurse pratitioner or specialist nurse of maybe even a nurse consultant could make that decision. because he or she knows the patient better than the dr.
Usually here a patient would be made DNR after a MDT meeting, this means that lots of clinicians would have the oppertunity to have their say, the family may even be present but the only person who can sign a DNR order is most senior doctor (in a hospital setting) and if the MDT cannot agree the final decision rests with him. The family do not have the right to demand treatment, they will be consulted and have things explained though.
It was her patient because it was actually her patient. It was a patient from her ward who had gone to the front door to smoke. I think that may be where the forms patients now have to fill in saying that if they leave the ward to smoke then the hospital is not responsable for them.
We don't have civil charges. Our legal system is totally different. what I mean is that if the family or patient went to a solicitor wanting compensation a charge would have to be brought agaisnt them and the outcome would be decided in a court. As opposed to an internal investigation by the NHS which would not result in compensation. If I had know you had all different types I would have phrased it differently.
I have to be honest I have searched for a news story on this but couldn't find it. I really don't recall any news story describing this and I am sure that there would have been one. I taught resuscitation for many years so kept up to date on news stories that involved resuscitation attempts. In the UK it's the Monarchy that initiates criminal charges via the Crown Prosecution Service so it is out of public funds. I wonder if this is one of those nursing myths, unless the poster can point us in the direction of the news story which would be extremely interesting to read.
I don't know if it hit the news, I am studying in Glasgow and it happened at the hospital I was on placement at. It was a nurse that told me about it. I guess it could be a myth but as far as I was aware it hadn't happened very long before.
Here is one that I have heard a few times. A particularly enthusiastic student nurse decides to clean all the patients dentures on her elderly care ward. She collects them up and goes to the sluice to give them a good scrub. Only when she is surveying the now-sparkling multiple sets of dentures with no little pride does it occur to her that ...Oh noes!....she cannot recall which dentures belong to which patient.
That was a story on No Angels, the channel 4 tv programe :)
We don't have civil charges. Our legal system is totally different. what I mean is that if the family or patient went to a solicitor wanting compensation a charge would have to be brought agaisnt them and the outcome would be decided in a court. As opposed to an internal investigation by the NHS which would not result in compensation. If I had know you had all different types I would have phrased it differently.
We do have a civil law system similar to the US but here we are far less litigations so it's not as widely used. If a family goes to a solicitor they bring a civil case to the courts, this will be with the aim of claiming compensation against the person they are suing.
If it is criminal offence then it is investigated by the police and the crown prosecution service brings the charges, this will be heard either in magistrates court or crown court and result in a possible criminal record and maybe a prison sentence.
We do have a civil law system similar to the US but here we are far less litigations so it's not as widely used. If a family goes to a solicitor they bring a civil case to the courts, this will be with the aim of claiming compensation against the person they are suing.
If it is criminal offence then it is investigated by the police and the crown prosecution service brings the charges, this will be heard either in magistrates court or crown court and result in a possible criminal record and maybe a prison sentence.
ok i didnt know that but thanks, i thought it was the same thing
Ok I dont know how to quote in little bubbles so I will just say my bit here!
Firstly no, deemed unsuitable is just the term I decided to use to say that the patient had not been named DNR but should have been. DNR means the same thing here.
The second bit, its not a random nurse that makes the decision, the situation I was takling about was a patient in the community who is perhaps only in contact with the district nurses, a senior district nurse, eg a nurse pratitioner or specialist nurse of maybe even a nurse consultant could make that decision. because he or she knows the patient better than the dr.
Usually here a patient would be made DNR after a MDT meeting, this means that lots of clinicians would have the oppertunity to have their say, the family may even be present but the only person who can sign a DNR order is most senior doctor (in a hospital setting) and if the MDT cannot agree the final decision rests with him. The family do not have the right to demand treatment, they will be consulted and have things explained though.
It was her patient because it was actually her patient. It was a patient from her ward who had gone to the front door to smoke. I think that may be where the forms patients now have to fill in saying that if they leave the ward to smoke then the hospital is not responsable for them.
We don't have civil charges. Our legal system is totally different. what I mean is that if the family or patient went to a solicitor wanting compensation a charge would have to be brought agaisnt them and the outcome would be decided in a court. As opposed to an internal investigation by the NHS which would not result in compensation. If I had know you had all different types I would have phrased it differently.
I'll further add to this by saying that while "criminal charges" are PROSECUTED by the state in the US, the charges can be PRESSED (i.e., brought up) by the plaintiff. You can commit a criminal offense and not be prosecuted because the plaintiff refuses to press charges (like in domestic violence cases in some states). And there are also charges, like murder, that are brought up, filed, and prosecuted by the state whether a potential plaintiff wants charges brought up or not.
You can also drop charges, and if that forms the basis of the people's case (the state), then the case could go away. This applies to only certain CLASSES of offenses, and I'm not sure what they are, but it can and does happen.
I'm married to a Brit and know your legal system is convoluted as heck...ours is no better, I'm afraid... :)
Specializes in Peds/outpatient FP,derm,allergy/private duty.
I'll further add to this by saying that while "criminal charges" are PROSECUTED by the state in the US, the charges can be PRESSED (i.e., brought up) by the plaintiff. You can commit a criminal offense and not be prosecuted because the plaintiff refuses to press charges (like in domestic violence cases in some states). And there are also charges, like murder, that are brought up, filed, and prosecuted by the state whether a potential plaintiff wants charges brought up or not.
You can also drop charges, and if that forms the basis of the people's case (the state), then the case could go away. This applies to only certain CLASSES of offenses, and I'm not sure what they are, but it can and does happen.
I'm married to a Brit and know your legal system is convoluted as heck...ours is no better, I'm afraid... :)
You are right, Carolinapooh! I really have but a general idea of our legal system(ie criminal vs civil), and it's quite fascinating to see how other countries, even Canada, are different from ours. The monarchy and the House of Lords and all into the general mix of it-- very interesting, and yet it all makes me realize how little I know! Maybe lawyers feel that way about us nurses, too.
Full moon= Increased confusion and agitation for many patients, high no. of falls, crazy nights for nurses. This used to happen to me where I used to work at not any more.
A small part of my brain says this is true, but it's drowned out by the howling of crazy Pts and families when the midnight orb comprises a full circle.
I didn't read every single post so this might have been mentioned....
Using the 'Q' word (quiet), or someone saying "I'm bored"
Also, I have a personal superstition that other co-workers have latched onto (for me). If I wear my hair down I will have a busy night. I've 'tested' it, thinking I could try it...no such luck. In fact, if I happen to show up at work, before we get assignments/clock in, and haven't pulled my hair up yet, I will have co-workers remind me so that 'we' don't have a busy night. Haha! Whatever 'works' right (even if it is in our mind)?
I had a NA tell me about the ear lobes dropping back prior to someone expiring, it wasn't the same as the coronary artery disease crease. I think it might have something to do with loss of distant peripheral capillary circulation. I have noticed patients' eyes getting pale in the last 12 hrs. or so before death, and I think it would be attributed to the same circulatory changes. This would be in patients that were slowing fading away, not a sudden unexpected death. It would just be something I would notice when doing my first rounds, and would think "cra*, this guy is going to die today."
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Phlavyah
155 Posts
I always welcome a good Starwars reference... lol