The most common myth I have heard is this one. In an unnamed ITU it was noted, with great concern that on a particular weekday (let us say Thursday) that patients were dying with alarming regularity.
The management looked into this of course. It was discovered that Thursday was the cleaner's day for doing a deep-clean.
Of course! The cleaners were UNPLUGGING THE RESPIRATORS to plug in their vacuum cleaners:eek:
I think the family got compensation or the broken ribs guy did, the NHS paid it though and I believe the nurse actually didn't get much more than a surprise. But she was investigated, and I think she had to do retraining and stuff.
Did the guy survive? I can't believe he sued after someone saved his life!
I think the family got compensation or the broken ribs guy did, the NHS paid it though and I believe the nurse actually didn't get much more than a surprise. But she was investigated, and I think she had to do retraining and stuff.
He should have gotten nothing. When you do CPR, it's common knowledge that you will break ribs. In fact, I've often been told if you DON'T break ribs, you're doing it wrong - you're not compressing far enough. I'm sure I've popped a couple myself. The heart is protected by the sternum and you have to put a proportionate amount of force upon it to force the heart down. Ribs are flexible and actually a bit flimsy if you think about it, and they're going to pop from the force.
There's just no figuring on what some people will sue for. I mean, really. I find it disgusting.
Specializes in Peds/outpatient FP,derm,allergy/private duty.
QUOTE=leelee283;4203304]Perhaps abuse is harsh however there could be criminal charges if a patient was deemed unsuitable and cpr left them brain damaged, the family would have the right to demand an investigation. The statistics for in hospital resus attempts are that 15% survive the cpr and a third of them die within 3 days.
Deemed unsuitable? Is that the long form of the initials DNR is the US? Meaning "do not resuscitate"=DNR as "deemed unsuitable"=DU?
In the UK the only person that can authorise DNR status is the most senior clinician involved with that patients care, in hospital it would the consultant who would see the patient every day, in the community it could be either be the GP or a the Senior Community Nurse.
How can a nurse determine if a patient should be resuscitated or not? Making a decision like that gets you into the area of prognosis, within the doctor's scope of practice, not the nurses (at least here). I would be very uncomfortable if that were my mother, father or child.
In the UK we strive to be patient advocates, we try not to go into a state of paternalism because this impunes on patient autonomy, we have dicsussions early on in patient care on advanced directives so they may make the decisions reguarding their care.
So taking the decision of whether or not to bring someone back who arrests(this discussion is about those without advance directives-in those cases it should be obvious what to do) is not the decision of the patient or the family member, but one person, who doesn't have to be a doctor at all, is not paternalistic, and gives the patient more autonomy than leaving the decision in the hands of the patient themselves, or their next of kin?
There was a nurse in Glasgow who came across on of her patients collapsed at the hospital door, she performed cpr, got help and saved his life, however she also broke a couple of ribs. Criminal charges were brought against her.
Wow. First, it's hard to understand how the man could be considered "her patient" at the hospital door, because presumably he would be either a)arriving at the hospital b)leaving the hospital through discharge c)attempting to escape from the hospital If you are allowed to walk to radiology or the lab by yourself for tests and collapse on the way, I can see how it would be a problem.
I don't know how it works in the UK, but here "criminal charges" are brought by the state or country. Civil charges are brought by families. So you are saying that your government in some form or other prosecuted their own nurse for saving someone's life? All I can say to that is yikes! I would think the public would find that an outrageous waste of resources and really sends the wrong message especially when there are so many real criminal cases to bring.
ps- I'm not superstitious, I wouldn't care if a herd of black cats crossed my path, I break mirrors on a regular basis, but I'm still freaked by the number 13, don't know why---- and it figures prominently in my Social Security number!!!!
That was an episode on the HBO series The No.1 Ladies Detective Agency. (Based on the books.) It takes place somewhere in Africa - I forget where. I thought it was a crazy idea when I saw the show!
how can a nurse determine if a patient should be resuscitated or not? making a decision like that gets you into the area of prognosis, within the doctor's scope of practice, not the nurses (at least here). i would be very uncomfortable if that were my mother, father or child.
so taking the decision of whether or not to bring someone back who arrests(this discussion is about those without advance directives-in those cases it should be obvious what to do) is not the decision of the patient or the family member, but one person, who doesn't have to be a doctor at all, is not paternalistic, and gives the patient more autonomy than leaving the decision in the hands of the patient
themselves, or their next of kin?
this was brought about in a joint decision by the british medical association and the resuscitation council uk, and is not about one person taking the decision for resuscitation decisions, it's about collaboration between all members of the healthcare team including patients and their families when possible.
"healthcare is increasingly multi-disciplinary and the document is designed to be used in a variety of contexts, including where healthcare teams are led by nurses. it makes clear that responsibility for decision-making and cpr must always rest with the most senior clinician in charge of a patient's care. in the majority of cases this will be a registered medical practitioner but in some situations, such as in nurse-led palliative care services, a senior nurse with appropriate training may fulfil this role, subject to local discussion and agreement. the document states that if there is genuine doubt or disagreement about whether cpr would be clinically appropriate a further senior clinical opinion should be sought.
the guidance stresses that although the responsibility for decision-making rests with the most senior clinician, these decisions should not be made in isolation, but where appropriate, should involve the patient (or those close to the patient if s/he lacks capacity) and others involved in the clinical care of the patient. teamwork and good communication are of paramount importance. "
wow. first, it's hard to understand how the man could be considered "her patient" at the hospital door, because presumably he would be either a)arriving at the hospital b)leaving the hospital through discharge c)attempting to escape from the hospital if you are allowed to walk to radiology or the lab by yourself for tests and collapse on the way, i can see how it would be a problem. i don't know how it works in the uk, but here "criminal charges" are brought by the state or country. civil charges are brought by families. so you are saying that your government in some form or other prosecuted their own nurse for saving someone's life? all i can say to that is yikes! i would think the public would find that an outrageous waste of resources and really sends the wrong message especially when there are so many real criminal cases to bring.
i have to be honest i have searched for a news story on this but couldn't find it. i really don't recall any news story describing this and i am sure that there would have been one. i taught resuscitation for many years so kept up to date on news stories that involved resuscitation attempts. in the uk it's the monarchy that initiates criminal charges via the crown prosecution service so it is out of public funds. i wonder if this is one of those nursing myths, unless the poster can point us in the direction of the news story which would be extremely interesting to read.
Specializes in Peds/outpatient FP,derm,allergy/private duty.
Thanks for your reply, and for the links. It is very informative! From the looks of it, to me is does seem that one person, the senior registered medical practitioner, or the nurse with suitable training, makes the decision. "Where appropriate" the patient should be consulted but the actual decision rests with the senior clinician. The patient is "informed of the decision". They don't make that decision.
Another difference I noticed was that "careful consideration should be given about whether or not to inform the patient of the decision" that no one will attempt to rescusitate them should they suffer an arrest. That concept is not familiar to me here in the US. A DNR form must be signed by the patient, it must be up-to-date, and a copy of it placed in their medical record. If it isn't, they will get the full code treatment.
Here, you would be more likely to get sued for failing to pull out all the stops with the resus, rather than be charged with battery if you attempt to revive someone without their prior consent. Though it's probably a theoretical risk, they certainly emphasized the possibility of liability for battery, including the use of the AED by non-medical personnel.
I wonder about something in there. They mentioned that in the US, there are "Good Samaritan" laws giving legal protection to bystanders performing CPR, but that it would take a very long time to get those laws passed in the UK. Why would it take a long time?
It is so interesting to learn more about the inner workings of comparative systems. I can see the merits of both, and there is no question your system avoids the insane amounts of money spent on unnecessary codes.
Our laws are not ironclad, though and multi-disciplinary Ethics Committees do discuss and are able to override the patient's wishes or the family's wishes in select situations. People over here get downright hysterical about end-of-life considerations being made by third parties. We had quite the tempest over here when someone got wind of it. Death Panels!! :uhoh21: Unfortunately, everybody ran for cover instead of explaining it, now it's off the table, and a certain route to political suicide. Sighhh. . .
"if so many studies have failed to prove a significant correlation between the full moon and anything, why do so many people believe in these lunar myths?"
Right out of nursing school, I worked on a medical floor. I was told several times, by various nurses, that when one of our older, chronically ill patients was slipping toward death, the bottoms of their ear lobes would fold inward. If this was noted, the patient was sure to die within 36 to 72 hours.
I would not have believed it if I hadn't seen it myself at least twice. I can't say what causes it, but I imagine there must be a legitimate physical origin. Maybe it has something to do with dehydration? As the tissue of the ear lobe dries out, its structure becomes compromised and collapses? Dunno.
I've not heard of it as an acute sign, but having an ear lobe crease has been absolutely confirmed to be a positive predictive sign for coronary artery disease.
See, that I don't doubt. They've proven we have circadian rhythms and how depression increases in the winter (possibly related to the shorter days). I think we're more in tune with nature than some would like to believe.
While there may very well be a correlation between barometer and labor, there may be just as much of a correlation between stress of an imminent hurricane and labor.
All mammals tend to go into labor when their environment is threatened as it increases the mothers' survival to be more mobile should the need arise. Blame evolution.
Our main Hospital campus doesn't have a 13th floor.
why do we do things like this when we should have abit more smarts then numbers or superstions? as my neices and nephew would start sing about such things: "dum dumdumb dadumb dumb"
Specializes in Nurse Leader specializing in Labor & Delivery.
I don't think any building in the US has a 13th floor. I think most buildings in Western society are without a 13th floor.
Yes, there are plenty of buildings in the US that have a 13th floor. The government center in Minneapolis is one I know of for fact off the top of my head.
Specializes in Plastics. General Surgery. ITU. Oncology.
Here is one that I have heard a few times. A particularly enthusiastic student nurse decides to clean all the patients dentures on her elderly care ward. She collects them up and goes to the sluice to give them a good scrub. Only when she is surveying the now-sparkling multiple sets of dentures with no little pride does it occur to her that ...Oh noes!....she cannot recall which dentures belong to which patient.
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JDZ344
837 Posts
Did the guy survive? I can't believe he sued after someone saved his life!