Nursing Home Resident Taunted by CNAs

On 8/15/2019 at 11:50 PM, Davey Do said:

"What do you think?... We would love to hear what you’re thinking about this despicable act."

I think and ask myself: What motivated Montesa and Cortez to commit "this despicable act"?

Everybody has a need to feel power and control over any given situation. Had Margaret Collins donned the hospital gown she was offered, M & C probably would have went on their merry way. When Mrs. C refused the gown, M & C felt no sense of power or control and reacted accordingly with inappropriate behavior.

What caused that inappropriate behavior to occur?

When stimulated, our sympathetic nervous system stimulates the brain that makes a reflexive decision to take either fight or flight response. M & C made a reflexive decision to fight. Once a reflexive decision is made, a domino effect occurs and Newton's Law of Motion is in effect.

Unless an external force changes the state of a motion, the motion will remain in action. M & C had synergism in that the two were on the same course of action, which fueled the motion. If either M or C would have said something like, "You know- it's her right to refuse to wear a gown. Let's leave her alone", the external force would have changed the state of the inappropriate motion and the motion would have ceased.

In the early '90's, I learned that certain anticonvulsants were being used to help control explosive disorders. An explosive disorder contains features such as "sudden episodes of impulsive, aggressive, violent behavior or angry verbal outbursts in which (an individual) reacts grossly out of proportion to the situation".

A neurologist affirmed my belief that an explosive disorder episode is not unlike a seizure, in that neurons are stimulated causing an out of control chain reaction.

Did M & C both experienced an episode of an explosive disorder? No- but they both experienced the stimulus that caused the inappropriate behavior and both did not possess the internal governing mechanism to cause the behavior to cease.

Locking the barn after the horse is stolen and punishing the thief is tact to take in preventing a parochial future crime. However, understanding the motivation and actions behind the theft will universally assist in preventing many more like crimes.

You are right on here.  I have worked with many fine aides in LTC however, there are some that were not as mature, have the self control or make good decisions as others.

On 8/16/2019 at 8:42 AM, Kooky Korky said:

So because you think this sort of behavior is common, it's ok?

What punishment accomplishes is that the perpetrators get punished. 

They will either be bitter or they will realize the error of their ways.

Maybe their being punished will be a deterrent to others who might foolishly think this behavior is ok.

They need to be banned from "caring for " the defenseless population.  That would be a more appropriate approach to the nursing home to have taken with them, in addition to firing.  You know, reporting them to state regulators.

I can't believe you think that this kind of thing being common makes it ok.  What if YOU were that patient?  Your child?  Your parent, grandparent, other loved one?

I don't think anyone is saying this is OK.  Of course not.  We have a problem in the US with caring for older Americans.  Basically we as a population do not value these people.  If we did, then this type of thing would not happen.

I don't know how we can change a culture but we can put measures into place that create an atmosphere where these types of situations don't happen. Honestly, it comes down to money, I hate it but that's where it's at.  Just like so many other things in healthcare.  

To answer the question, Yes, they should have lost their jobs for violating rules and regs.  They should be rehabilitated.

I would have responded by asking for discipline and education.  I would have been very angry and disappointed in the facility if it were my grandmother.  I have taken care of many dementia patients that have tried my patience so I have an understanding of how this type of thing can happen, but I DO NOT CONDONE IT! Just making that clear.

As Forest 2 said - it comes down to money.which I think backs my original statements. Our society does not value our aged folks. Years ago I did SNF/ ALF facilities for hospice. Many patients told me to condense ' I am in a warehouse for old people's. And while some facilities are nicer than others, this is  a largely accurate observation.  These days too many places are looking for a warm body with proper credentials.  That needs to stop. If you have no patience, no humanity, no compassion, don't get into this field.  We already have enough problems

We (society) find it acceptable that these people lay in their own waste until someone is free to clean them, make them room with two other people, shower them once weekly and provide nursing care that ensures they will only get 5-10 minutes of face to face time with an actual nurse, if that.  If all of that wasn't bad enough, we then employ staff members who are less than caring and in this field for god knows what reasons. (ive never understood why some CNAs choose this field when they clearly hate it - they pay certainly isn't what attracts them) 

Its horrible, it's got to change. 

On 8/15/2019 at 11:50 PM, Davey Do said:

"What do you think?... We would love to hear what you’re thinking about this despicable act."

I think and ask myself: What motivated Montesa and Cortez to commit "this despicable act"?

Everybody has a need to feel power and control over any given situation. Had Margaret Collins donned the hospital gown she was offered, M & C probably would have went on their merry way. When Mrs. C refused the gown, M & C felt no sense of power or control and reacted accordingly with inappropriate behavior.

What caused that inappropriate behavior to occur?

When stimulated, our sympathetic nervous system stimulates the brain that makes a reflexive decision to take either fight or flight response. M & C made a reflexive decision to fight. Once a reflexive decision is made, a domino effect occurs and Newton's Law of Motion is in effect.

Unless an external force changes the state of a motion, the motion will remain in action. M & C had synergism in that the two were on the same course of action, which fueled the motion. If either M or C would have said something like, "You know- it's her right to refuse to wear a gown. Let's leave her alone", the external force would have changed the state of the inappropriate motion and the motion would have ceased.

In the early '90's, I learned that certain anticonvulsants were being used to help control explosive disorders. An explosive disorder contains features such as "sudden episodes of impulsive, aggressive, violent behavior or angry verbal outbursts in which (an individual) reacts grossly out of proportion to the situation".

A neurologist affirmed my belief that an explosive disorder episode is not unlike a seizure, in that neurons are stimulated causing an out of control chain reaction.

Did M & C both experienced an episode of an explosive disorder? No- but they both experienced the stimulus that caused the inappropriate behavior and both did not possess the internal governing mechanism to cause the behavior to cease.

Locking the barn after the horse is stolen and punishing the thief is tact to take in preventing a parochial future crime. However, understanding the motivation and actions behind the theft will universally assist in preventing many more like crimes.

Or some people are just a-holes.

15 hours ago, Glycerine82 said:

We (society) find it acceptable that these people lay in their own waste until someone is free to clean them, make them room with two other people, shower them once weekly and provide nursing care that ensures they will only get 5-10 minutes of face to face time with an actual nurse, if that.  If all of that wasn't bad enough, we then employ staff members who are less than caring and in this field for god knows what reasons. (ive never understood why some CNAs choose this field when they clearly hate it - they pay certainly isn't what attracts them) 

Its horrible, it's got to change. 

Yes, it certainly does need to change but I don't see it happening.  What is one to do?  Most healthcare people work all the time, how to "March on Washington" for the elderly.  I don't see it happening.  I would rather see my elderly family members live at home under almost any circumstance than be in a long term care facility.

I am pretty sure that some iffy people choose this as a job, because it pays better than minimum wage, sometimes training is free and it is job security.

Education about these kind of matters is the answer. 

On 8/15/2019 at 10:50 PM, Davey Do said:

"What do you think?... We would love to hear what you’re thinking about this despicable act."

I think and ask myself: What motivated Montesa and Cortez to commit "this despicable act"?

Everybody has a need to feel power and control over any given situation. Had Margaret Collins donned the hospital gown she was offered, M & C probably would have went on their merry way. When Mrs. C refused the gown, M & C felt no sense of power or control and reacted accordingly with inappropriate behavior.

What caused that inappropriate behavior to occur?

When stimulated, our sympathetic nervous system stimulates the brain that makes a reflexive decision to take either fight or flight response. M & C made a reflexive decision to fight. Once a reflexive decision is made, a domino effect occurs and Newton's Law of Motion is in effect.

Unless an external force changes the state of a motion, the motion will remain in action. M & C had synergism in that the two were on the same course of action, which fueled the motion. If either M or C would have said something like, "You know- it's her right to refuse to wear a gown. Let's leave her alone", the external force would have changed the state of the inappropriate motion and the motion would have ceased.

In the early '90's, I learned that certain anticonvulsants were being used to help control explosive disorders. An explosive disorder contains features such as "sudden episodes of impulsive, aggressive, violent behavior or angry verbal outbursts in which (an individual) reacts grossly out of proportion to the situation".

A neurologist affirmed my belief that an explosive disorder episode is not unlike a seizure, in that neurons are stimulated causing an out of control chain reaction.

Did M & C both experienced an episode of an explosive disorder? No- but they both experienced the stimulus that caused the inappropriate behavior and both did not possess the internal governing mechanism to cause the behavior to cease.

Locking the barn after the horse is stolen and punishing the thief is tact to take in preventing a parochial future crime. However, understanding the motivation and actions behind the theft will universally assist in preventing many more like crimes.

Understanding is great.  Like understanding why killers, arsonists, serial killers and mass murderers kill.  We definitely need to try to understand these people and try to prevent these things from ever happening.

These 2 aides should still be flogged, drawn and quartered, tarred and feathered, and ridden out of town on a rail.  Not to mention "de-certified". 

People like these taunters of the elderly, helpless woman should never work again with vulnerable people - kids, adults, the disabled.

In reading this and I am thinking of my loved ones and I become upset. Honestly, I feel that termination is not enough and they should spend some time in jail and placed on a registry. This behavior was definitely criminal behavior in my opinion.