"He just wanted to know..."

[KatieMI]

So here is the situation.

I work as a private practice NP Internal Medicine provider in the same medical center where I started as RN years ago.

A some time ago, I stopped sharing ANY private information about myself and my family, period. Partially it was due to xenophobia I experienced in the same place, partially due to current political situation and partially because I am, well, sick and tired of sharing information that has nothing to do with business. I am nice, polite and adamant about it, whether one feels like "just curious" or not. But, since I was there before, some pieces leaked out and stayed in collective memory.

Over the last year, I encountered more than once that patients/families somehow got to know where I came from and some other details I did not share with them. It is Trump country overall, so more than once it led to situations when I was asked humiliating (to say it mildly) questions directly in my face, refusal of care under premise that I must be "a spy or something", etc. Needless to say, it doesn't make my life any better.

The single source of leak in all cases with no exclusion were staff RNs. I spoke with them; some outright denied telling patients anything, but when presented with facts, everyone started the same spiel: "the patient/family just wanted to know where are you from, what are you doing here in America and if you have any kids - they are customers, you know, and why they cannot know if they are just curious?" No one of them had an impression that what they did was wrong.

In my opinion, doing so is, at least, unprofessional.

Speaking with NURSING management led to nowhere. They have no policies about it, and "what if he just wanted to know, and the nurse happens to know, and not comfortable to say "no"?"

I would appreciate some collective wisdom.

[JKL33]

The more I read this thread the more I have trouble imagining a situation the OP describes. I would find it really odd for a patient to ask me personal info about a coworker, doctor, practitioner, anyone else. And the fact that it isn't a one time thing is even stranger.

I think the problem is that her former co-workers (if I'm understanding correctly) are truly up to no good compounded by the fact that the area in general is something less than progressive.

"Oh. So so-and-so is your PCP?? How's that going??"

Not difficult to imagine that it's easy enough to make trouble if one were so inclined.

And, at this point even if they aren't going out of their way to make trouble by purposely raising conversations with patients, they have disregarded her plainly-stated wishes and requests.

I still think OP should make the request in writing to the CNO; even better a lawyer should send a cease-and-desist-type letter (or whatever legal equivalent is appropriate) to the CNO.

[TriciaJ, RN]

I've never minded being asked my country of origin or even if I have papers (Yes. I do.) Someone even once accused me of "sponging off the system" (No. I've always worked and paid taxes.). Most people are just curious about other people from other places and ask questions to educate themselves.

However, where Katie practices it appears there are people who like to use that type of information as some kind of ammo. For this reason her coworkers should follow a policy of deflecting such questions. And if anyone asks how many children another person has and where they go to school....! That's just over the top to be asking or answering such questions.

The first half of my career was in psych and corrections and we gave out NO information about ourselves and each other. In other areas it's nice to be able to relax a bit, but if people are "scoring" information in order to be nasty and discriminatory, then it's really just best to adopt a policy of no information.

[nrsang97, BSN, RN]

KatieMI,

I am sorry your coworkers are jerks. They should absolutely not give your information to anyone. Especially about what school your kids go to for Pete's sake.

We had a manager on one of the units where I work do a "Doc of the week" board. I saw info on there that was way over bounds. Like if they were married, had kids, where they were from, etc. A supervisor saw it one night too and we both said that gave away way too much info. It hasn't been done since. I was told the docs were asked what they could put on there, but I still thought it was over the line. Especially mentioning kids and thier ages and their spouses. I am so glad that was stopped. I live in an area in MI that is mixed Trump country. While our county didn't vote for him, a lot that live here did.

Katie I am so sorry that in your area you are experiencing this. Management needs to put a stop to this immediately.

[KatieMI, BSN, MSN, RN]

The more I read this thread the more I have trouble imagining a situation the OP describes. I would find it really odd for a patient to ask me personal info about a coworker, doctor, practitioner, anyone else. And the fact that it isn't a one time thing is even stranger.

This is what happens when administration of a hospital starts to run it as a family B&B of a sort with additional medical services thrown in for a change. "Customer service" everything for inhabitants of small towns who hardly ever leave them. Staff and patients are frequently from the same neighborhood and, of course, discuss local things and people all the time.

I don't oppose it all till it crosses personal boundaries, common sense and clinical decision making. But sometimes things get crossed - all of them.

[KatieMI, BSN, MSN, RN]

In theory, I can see your position. However, there is nothing the BON could possibly do regarding this situation. It seems to be a she said/she said dilemma in which the board investigators would not be able to prove. Besides, they are busy investigating actual harm to patients such as drug diversion and such.

I just won't go to BON for this. Remembering how I was threatened to be reported for accidentally dropping an empty package of Coumadin due to "purposefully creating biologic hazard", I won't place a human beigh through this unless he or she truly and honestly deserve it.

Plus, if BONs wouldn't be bothered with all those "reports" all the time, they might finally get time and money to do something about some long-standing problems. Inadequate staffing, for just one instance.

[RNperdiem, RN]

I hope you find a better place to work in the future after you have served out your term of service. It sounds like you have escalated the situation as far as reasonable, but your coworkers are either clueless or refuse to be reasonable.

I immigrated here young too and remember the "what are you" questions. Yes, there is genuine curiosity, but something almost hostile that the speaker isn't quite aware of. It serves to remind you how "other" and "alien" you seem.

[KatieMI, BSN, MSN, RN]

I've never minded being asked my country of origin or even if I have papers (Yes. I do.) Someone even once accused me of "sponging off the system" (No. I've always worked and paid taxes.). Most people are just curious about other people from other places and ask questions to educate themselves.

However, where Katie practices it appears there are people who like to use that type of information as some kind of ammo. For this reason her coworkers should follow a policy of deflecting such questions. And if anyone asks how many children another person has and where they go to school....! That's just over the top to be asking or answering such questions.

Unfortunately, after 16 years of being generally nice and open I had to reconsider. It is not that I have grounds to be afraid, but I do not want to hear ever again anything along "oh, if your kid loves math, she will become one of these computer freaks and spies and sell us all to Moscow!" I wish it would be a joke, but it was not. Just like a guy who wanted me to "just taste" a substance he was told I am severely allergic to, it was said absolutely seriously.

Maybe it is my PTSD making me thin-skinned in some places, but I just want to keep my life for myself. At least for here and now.

BTW, I was accused in "stealing jobs from real Americans" and worse along the line more than once. I do not want to hear that as well.

[Accolay]

You're comparing someone having nasty things said to them to someone being RAPED! If you can't see the difference I don't know what else to say.

No, I wasn't, but I'll stop it there. I'm sorry and appologize if I caused any offense. I was trying to compare the believeability that are in the same vein- something happens isn't believed or isn't a problem because someone doesn't experience it. Much like some men and #metoo, and you and your belief that people other than you couldn't possibly be having any problems because you haven't experienced any of them.

[Wuzzie]

No, I wasn't, but I'll stop it there. I'm sorry and appologize if I caused any offense. I was trying to compare the believeability that are in the same vein- something happens isn't believed or isn't a problem because someone doesn't experience it. Much like some men and #metoo, and you and your belief that people other than you couldn't possibly be having any problems because you haven't experienced any of them.

But I never said that I didn't believe her. Never, not once and I would appreciate you not putting words in my mouth. I also never said that the only problems people could possibly have are those that I have experienced myself. That would be stupid. My objection was the idea that answering a question about country of origin is so very egregious that it should be brought before the board or the person should lose their job over it. Now Katie's situation is different than the usual casual conversation. Likely there was intent to cause trouble in her case but in general it's an innocent question born out of interest and wanting to make a connection. Again you are making huge leaps in assuming what I think and believe and you are very, very wrong.

[twinsmom788]

I just won't go to BON for this. Remembering how I was threatened to be reported for accidentally dropping an empty package of Coumadin due to "purposefully creating biologic hazard", I won't place a human beigh through this unless he or she truly and honestly deserve it.

Plus, if BONs wouldn't be bothered with all those "reports" all the time, they might finally get time and money to do something about some long-standing problems. Inadequate staffing, for just one instance.

Reports of what? Actually, the BON has no say in staffing. That would be a state law that Health Care Facilities or whatever controls the staffing of Nursing Homes and Hospitals in your state. CMS has broad coverage but really not a lot of teeth in the matter. An investigator must prove that the standard of care was not being met.

Not certain of who or what entity is threatening to "report you" for dropping an empty package. Just please be mindful of the fact that the board has better things to do than worry about things like that.

It would seem, in my mind, that it would be helpful for you to read the Nurse Practice Act for your state. Also, review the state rules and regulations for nursing in your state. Ethics violations are very difficult to prove especially verbal infractions.

I just came back from a trip overseas. I was shouted at " Stupid Americans" etc, etc...just ignore it and carry on. No response is necessary.

[Accolay]

But I never said that I didn't believe her. Never, not once and I would appreciate you not putting words in my mouth. I also never said that the only problems people could possibly have are those that I have experienced myself. That would be stupid. My objection was the idea that answering a question about country of origin is so very egregious that it should be brought before the board or the person should lose their job over it. Now Katie's situation is different than the usual casual conversation. Likely there was intent to cause trouble in her case but in general it's an innocent question born out of interest and wanting to make a connection. Again you are making huge leaps in assuming what I think and believe and you are very, very wrong.

You did say that practitioners you work with from other countries "are fine with" questions about their origin. But you really don't know what they are experiencing, you are not The Other. This is my argument.

Best practice advice going forward is to establish boundries with patients. Don't divulge personal things about yourself and especially not about coworkers.

[Wuzzie]

You did say that practitioners you work with from other countries "are fine with" questions about their origin. But you really don't know what they are experiencing, you are not The Other. .

And you know this because you work with me and have spoken to the providers I associate with? Or are you once again making baseless assumptions about me? No I am not The Other but I am capable of having a discussion and I have a relationship with these people so I very much do know what they think and feel about it. Fortunately the vast majority of our patients are grateful for the care they receive and don't give a hoot beyond basic interest where their doctor was born. The handful of racist/prejudicial patients we have had we have fired. You don't know me yet you keep hurling accusations my way and frankly I'm over being told what I think and feel by a virtual stranger. Have a very nice Thanksgiving.