A friend of mine is a manager who recently went to a management seminar. It was the same old thing until they asked what peoples' biggest problems are. One person said "employees under 30," and everyone in the room agreed. They find this demographic to be needy and entitled (I'm sure this does not apply to everyone, but is a much bigger trend than in past years).
My department recently hired MANY new nurses, and all but one is under 30. They call in when they are hung over, go home early, and they're lazy at work. The only thing I can depend on them to do is get their coffee break. I'm sure these nurses have many fine qualities, and maybe the rest of us are just martyrs (put in the full 46ish hours a week, mop our own ORs, etc), but it's just a whole different attitude. People in other departments note a similar trend. Radiology techs will refuse to go to certain cases because it will interfere with their lunch.
I'm sure I will get a bunch of posts from 20-somethings about how hard they work, and I'm sure there are some out there who really do work their tails off. But managers (and coworkers) are starting to take note of "generation me."
I think it's unfortunate that the manager's answer to the question posed was nurses under 30 when the real 'problems' are laziness and calling into work when hung over. This says something to me about this particular management's ability to find solutions to the problems it identifies. After all, there's not much you can do about 'being under 30'. Sub par performance and frequent unexcused absences on the other hand, can and should be addressed.
I don't like seeing all of Gen Y unfairly labeled any more than I do the Boomers or Gen X. Being 'of' any of those generations is NOT a problem.
Indeed, complaining of laziness on the part of nurses then proceeding to be at least as lazy in the "solution" to their problems.
Even as far as hiring ward clerks, etc, we sift through applications and throw out anyone who graduated highschool after 1995. We simply want mature adults. Yes, this selection process means we probably miss some great candidates, but the truth is, a 20something would be bored with us old battle axes, so they are better off going someplace where they are going to have more peers their own age.
This is a discriminatory hiring practice and is illegal. If you don't believe me, read the link previously provided. Whether or not you think they are better off not there, is not the point.
Really, I find it refreshing that you'd come out and say exactly as much. Not very smart, but refreshing.
I think you are all making too much of it. We try to hire people we like. I think that's pretty much the norm.
HR gets and keeps all applications. When the dept has an opening, the dept mgr asks HR for current apps and he gives them to the committee.
The very first thing we do is go through them and look for anyone any of us knows, either good or bad. Sometimes the job is filled simply by identifying a name of someone one of the members knows from school, another workplace, etc, lol. Anyway, assuming we don't know any of them, 2nd we sort them ADN and BSN, b/c while HR forwards all applications, we aren't supposed to be hiring non BSN nurses. That is official company dogma. That isn't to say we would never, we just try to find a BSN we like first.
So now maybe we are down to 12-20 BSN apps for one spot. We are not going to interview a dozen people. For one thing, it is too hard to get a committee quorum! So, we read through them and pick the top 3 or 4 best looking resumes. In looking through these resumes, the quickest way to sort them is to look at when they graduated from nsg school. If it less than 10 years ago, there is no way they have enough experience, so we don't even have to bother with those. A nurse that graduated from college in 2000 would probably have finished high school in what, 1996? Isn't that just about what I said? So, then we read a little further, looking to see what they had done where. Logically, the best resumes are not likely to belong to a 23 y/o, but if Doogie Houser RN applied and had one of the three best resumes, he'd get an interview, but I will be totally honest and say, no, I really doubt we'd hire him if there were equally good candidates we felt would be a better social fit. It hasn't happened AFAIK, so it is just hypothetical.
In any event, we narrow them down and send a list of people we want to interview to he dept mgr, who schedules the interviews. They meet w/ all of us, committee and mgr for a group interview and then we just vote.
It's usually pretty easy, unless we didn't really like any of them, in which case we could elect to interview more. I don't recall this ever happening, but I haven't always been able to attend every meeting. If you don't attend the interviews, you don't get to vote.
We pick who we want, and send the stuff back to the mgr, who in turn sends the candidate info back to HR. HR then vets the candidate, checks references, etc. If they approve, they make an offer. They can put the kibosh on the whole thing if they don't like the references; further, the pay at our spot is comparatively low, so sometimes the candidate turns down the job. OR they don't like the shift we have, etc. Or, maybe they didn't like us! So, if for whatever reason HR doesn't hire our first choice, we submit the 2nd, and so forth.
It wasn't any different for the one tech spot we have had to fill in the past 10 years. We looked for people we know, in house transfers first, etc. After that, went by experience.
We have such low turnover, it is a rare and informal process. I'm taking my FNP boards after the 1st of the year, and everyone knows as soon as I get a job, I'm leaving. Probably by March I hope. My replacement has been identified since last summer, lol. She used to work FT with us, left for about 18 months and now wants to come back since my job is a 36 hour/pay period position. No such job was available when she wanted to give up FT, so she just left. She knows from the grapevine I'm finally finishing and moving on, so she's just waiting for my spot to come available. That's just how it is here. Maybe it is illegal. If so, to tell the truth, it is the tip of the iceberg of what goes on here that shouldn't. I don't defend it, I'm just telling you how it is.
Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
work ethic is taught. unfortunately, kids should learn these skills through the guidance of their parents and part time after school/summer jobs. unfortunately, parents and/or summer jobs aren't doing the trick.
my suggestion would be to guide these nurses and bluntly tell them when they are behaving in a way that shows poor ethic.
i remember my first job (movie theater) and having a little too much fun at a party the night before. i was beyond hungover.. and my boss told me, 'you get your butt in here now or you don't have a job'. she handed me some seltzer and put me to work. lol
these kids will never learn a good worth ethic without someone throwing them some seltzer!
my s/d and her friends haven't absorbed the work ethic -- their mothers don't think they should have to work when they could be out having a good time instead. consequently, they behave in ways that show horrible work ethics. and i don't see that changing anytime soon. it's going to come as a terrible shock to them when they graduate from college and are suddenly expected to support themselves. or maybe s/d's mother is planning to support her forever . . . .
Specializes in Nurse Leader specializing in Labor & Delivery.
A friend of mine is a manager who recently went to a management seminar. It was the same old thing until they asked what peoples' biggest problems are. One person said "employees under 30," and everyone in the room agreed. They find this demographic to be needy and entitled (I'm sure this does not apply to everyone, but is a much bigger trend than in past years).
My department recently hired MANY new nurses, and all but one is under 30. They call in when they are hung over, go home early, and they're lazy at work. The only thing I can depend on them to do is get their coffee break. I'm sure these nurses have many fine qualities, and maybe the rest of us are just martyrs (put in the full 46ish hours a week, mop our own ORs, etc), but it's just a whole different attitude. People in other departments note a similar trend. Radiology techs will refuse to go to certain cases because it will interfere with their lunch.
I'm sure I will get a bunch of posts from 20-somethings about how hard they work, and I'm sure there are some out there who really do work their tails off. But managers (and coworkers) are starting to take note of "generation me."
Interesting. I have to say that that has not been my experience or observation at all. Pretty much every younger nurse I've worked with has been hard-working and intellectually curious. And I'm well over 30, so I'm not just being defensive. :)
I'm not saying you're wrong, just that that hasn't been my experience at all.
Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
unfortunately, my icu hires new grads and seems to be a feeder unit for anesthesia school. most of the new grads we hire aren't interested in being icu nurses -- they just want the icu experience for their anesthesia school applications. and yes, it affects their work ethic. they aren't invested in the unit and don't seem to give a rip about their jobs, their colleagues or even their patients. excessive call-outs and poor work ethic has been a major problem in this group of nurses. interestingly enough, they all claim to be hard workers and good nurses.
currently we have several 20-somethings on administrative leaves for no call/no shows, calling in sick 10 minutes before the shift starts, posting inappropriate pictures from the workplace on facebook or coming to work under the influence. we also have an older nurse on fmla because his 20-something daughter's risky behavior resulted in a near-fatal accident.
the entitled behavior seems to start on the first day of orientation for some of our 20-somethings -- they want to have the same preceptor every day "for my orientation needs" yet want to have every weekend off "because it's my friend's wedding." many have asked that the preceptors adjust themselves to the orientee's preferred schedule. although the job offer letter states clearly that the position is a day/night rotating one, many of these new grads are shocked when they're expected to work nights, much less weekends or holidays. any negative feedback, no matter how tactful or richly deserved, leads to charges that they're being targeted or picked on. they're quick to demand a new preceptor because their orientation isn't exactly what they've envisioned and if they don't immediately get a different preceptor, they complain about it. (we don't have enough experienced nurses to precept, much less enough to switch preceptors because the orientee doesn't like the orientation.) several orientees have had their parents call to demand changes in schedule or preceptor for them.
i'm not saying that all 20-somethings are lazy and entitled -- although many are -- or that all 50-somethings are hard working and model employees -- although many are. but i have to say that until recently, i'd never heard of a parent calling the child's boss to demand a change of schedule or whatever for them!
Ruby, that sounds horrible. By really insisting on a lot of exp we avoid a lot of that. We also really like candidates who have CCRN, MICN, CEN or CFN. To us these credentials in a seasoned nurse demonstrate a commitment to the craft. We are so so lucky to have the great staff we have. It is a very collegial, drama free workplace. People rarely call out, no one has EVER come to work under the influence and everyone gets along. Everyone c/o about our lousy pay and terrible ethics of our parent company, but we all stay b/c none of wants to deal with the kind of stuff youu describe. We are all just too old to deal with that again. ;-)
Specializes in Peds/outpatient FP,derm,allergy/private duty.
I'm barely over 30 myself and know that this generalization happens every generation. EVERY newer generation is looked at as slack. However, what everybody forgets, is that these people under 30 are UNDER 30.
I guess they must have changed the parameters of adolescence quite recently then. Maybe there was an observation of behavior typical of a 12-14 year old in individuals who were 28 or 29 years old so the solution was to conclude that adolescence must be a much longer process than previously believed?
There will be children walking around in adult bodies of all ages, but when you say everybody forgets these people are UNDER 30 there is an implied question of "what did you expect?" They are under 30! I think if I were a pilot, a cop, an elected official, a fellow in neurosurgery, or even a really good mom or dad in a stressful environment it would tick me off to see some waving off irresponsible behavior with "hey they are just kids so lay off!"
Oh, and BTW, I'm one of those scandalous younger nurses who...are you ready for this...usually puts on a little makeup and fixes my hair before going to work. No mass chaos...yet (insert sarcasm here).
Ouch! I love make-up! I sit at the nurse's station paging through the Avon catalogue rather than get off my hiney and do some actual work! I even brush my hair! (sarcasm right back atcha)
The older the nurses you hire, the more recruiting and hiring you are going to have to do, as they can't work forever. Add to that additional cost the pay differential between a nurse with 20 years experience and one with a few years or NG. More $.
The cost of training a new grad more than offsets the difference in pay. You are also not factoring in the retention of new grads once their many thousands of dollars costing orientation is done. I'm gonna guess older nurses hang around the same place longer than those under 25. If an employer has already decided to illegally discriminate and there is still far more demand than supply of nurse jobs they can hire all nurses 30 and up. You're also assuming new grads are all in their twenties on their first career.
You don't hire new grads in those areas and don't hire grads without specific experience in those areas, right? I would then contend your input is irrelevant, since your hospital does not want to engage in providing these type of experiences to ANY nurse, new grad or otherwise.
An ED or a CCU has every right not to hire a new grad and most new grads who are hired struggle. You aren't including nurses with ED and CCU experience of all ages. The point is to be a generalist before you become a specialist.
This thread has been a very interesting read for me. I'm a 23 yr. old nsg student, and recently attended a conference about working in a multi-generational workplace. The speaker explained differences in attitude among generations and the different experiences that we have lived through that shaped our childhoods (Pearl Harbor, Cuban Missile Crisis, 9/11, etc.). The speaker (a baby boomer) did point out that the Generation Y'ers are seen as the "me" generation with constant social site updates about meaningless things such as what we ate for breakfast, but he said that we could also thank the previous generations for the situation we will find ourselves in with the growing national debt and bankruptcy of social security. The only other thing I have to say about this thread is that I find it interesting that within my five people clinical group we have four 40, and it is the older student who is the only deadweight in our group. I didn't mind helping her along until she started to ask to copy my work! Seriously?! Nobody's asked to copy my homework since highschool. Sometimes, adult is just a state of mind.
Let me clarify: I have heard many other people make the
We have a few younger RNs and techs with good attitudes, but when 9 people on the same shift all call in one day and then post pictures of themselves at a concert together, it makes it very hard to get past the selfishness of their actions.
One2gofst
163 Posts
Indeed, complaining of laziness on the part of nurses then proceeding to be at least as lazy in the "solution" to their problems.