A friend of mine is a manager who recently went to a management seminar. It was the same old thing until they asked what peoples' biggest problems are. One person said "employees under 30," and everyone in the room agreed. They find this demographic to be needy and entitled (I'm sure this does not apply to everyone, but is a much bigger trend than in past years).
My department recently hired MANY new nurses, and all but one is under 30. They call in when they are hung over, go home early, and they're lazy at work. The only thing I can depend on them to do is get their coffee break. I'm sure these nurses have many fine qualities, and maybe the rest of us are just martyrs (put in the full 46ish hours a week, mop our own ORs, etc), but it's just a whole different attitude. People in other departments note a similar trend. Radiology techs will refuse to go to certain cases because it will interfere with their lunch.
I'm sure I will get a bunch of posts from 20-somethings about how hard they work, and I'm sure there are some out there who really do work their tails off. But managers (and coworkers) are starting to take note of "generation me."
I believe it is well understood that when posters say that all nurses under 30 are slackers, etc. they are not speaking of each and every one. With that understanding, this thread still irks me beyond belief.
It is not an age problem we have on our hands, it is a personality problem. You are going to have slackers and free loaders in every business, and of EVERY age group. For every 20-something nurse you have calling off for being hung over, I'm sure you could find a 50-something nurse lacking off in their duties (not saying they all do this, it is just an example). Maybe your particular hospital/clinic does have an issue specifically with younger nurses, but I bet there is another that is having a problem with older nurses.
If institutions are hiring and keeping these poor workers, then take it in to your own hands to have a sit-down with your manager and discuss the problems. Encourage peer evaluations, and be truthful.. there is something that can be done. I know plenty of hard working nurses who are in sub par positions or are out of work that would be very willing to fill those spots.
On another note, I can see how a smaller hospital that doesn't have many educational/support resources can't exactly have the luxury of training new nurses. But save that, as a profession we have to be willing to teach new nurses and have ICU/ED training programs in our hospitals. Without these, who is going to fill our ICU's and ED's when all the experienced nurses have retired? And what happened to a little variety? You don't have to be someone's mother to give a little of your time to teach and advise.
Lastly, I've been told that a lot of ICU/ED's like to hire new grads because they can mold them from the get-go, and don't have to reshape bad habits that have formed from their previous experience (Something that is talked about at a lot of AACN meetings!). So there is hope for you new grads hoping to become critical care nurses!
unfortunately, my icu hires new grads and seems to be a feeder unit for anesthesia school. most of the new grads we hire aren't interested in being icu nurses -- they just want the icu experience for their anesthesia school applications. and yes, it affects their work ethic. they aren't invested in the unit and don't seem to give a rip about their jobs, their colleagues or even their patients. excessive call-outs and poor work ethic has been a major problem in this group of nurses. interestingly enough, they all claim to be hard workers and good nurses.
currently we have several 20-somethings on administrative leaves for no call/no shows, calling in sick 10 minutes before the shift starts, posting inappropriate pictures from the workplace on facebook or coming to work under the influence. we also have an older nurse on fmla because his 20-something daughter's risky behavior resulted in a near-fatal accident.
the entitled behavior seems to start on the first day of orientation for some of our 20-somethings -- they want to have the same preceptor every day "for my orientation needs" yet want to have every weekend off "because it's my friend's wedding." many have asked that the preceptors adjust themselves to the orientee's preferred schedule. although the job offer letter states clearly that the position is a day/night rotating one, many of these new grads are shocked when they're expected to work nights, much less weekends or holidays. any negative feedback, no matter how tactful or richly deserved, leads to charges that they're being targeted or picked on. they're quick to demand a new preceptor because their orientation isn't exactly what they've envisioned and if they don't immediately get a different preceptor, they complain about it. (we don't have enough experienced nurses to precept, much less enough to switch preceptors because the orientee doesn't like the orientation.) several orientees have had their parents call to demand changes in schedule or preceptor for them.
i'm not saying that all 20-somethings are lazy and entitled -- although many are -- or that all 50-somethings are hard working and model employees -- although many are. but i have to say that until recently, i'd never heard of a parent calling the child's boss to demand a change of schedule or whatever for them!
i have no interest of ever going to anesthesia school. but i would love to work in an icu one day. they really don't know how fortunate they are.
Philanurse, I think larger hospitals are more likely to accept less experienced nurses. Many years ago I ran a 16 week program for new icu hires that they had to go through before going to their unit. We offered it quarterly because we had 8 ICUs with 16-20 beds each, giving us the volume to justify paying 4 of us to do that FT. It was a great opportunity for new icu nurses, but even then we insisted on 2 years med-surg first. My cousin went directly to a cvicu right out of nsg school last year. She's in a different part of the country though, and I think they may not be as overrun with potential hires as we are here. Then again, maybe they just hired her b/c she's 35, I don't know. ;-)
Ruby, that sounds horrible. By really insisting on a lot of exp we avoid a lot of that. We also really like candidates who have CCRN, MICN, CEN or CFN. To us these credentials in a seasoned nurse demonstrate a commitment to the craft. We are so so lucky to have the great staff we have. It is a very collegial, drama free workplace. People rarely call out, no one has EVER come to work under the influence and everyone gets along. Everyone c/o about our lousy pay and terrible ethics of our parent company, but we all stay b/c none of wants to deal with the kind of stuff youu describe. We are all just too old to deal with that again. ;-)
I would be hesitant to judge anybody on some initials after a name. I've taken many of the exams you mentioned, and they are not all that challenging, nor do I think they are a good indicator of a person's character or commitment.
I would be hesitant to judge anybody on some initials after a name. I've taken many of the exams you mentioned, and they are not all that challenging, nor do I think they are a good indicator of a person's character or commitment.
I guess we've just been lucky, but it's proven to be a good Indicator for us wrt intellectual curiosity and commitment to excellence. I suspect they will continue to out high value on such things until it no longer works for them.
Well, if you have passed, we probably would look at your whole person, right? IME CCRN is a better yardstick than BSN, but HR sees it differently. They want 80% BSN staff. I think they would do better to have a clinical ladder and support specialty certification, but thatsjust an opinion. I have no data to support this idea. I took cen and ccrn and cmc only. I thought cen was a piece of cake. Only an idiot wouldn't be able to pass that exam. Ccrn was more challenging, but cmc was also piece of cake. I have never taken MICN, and although I was a flight nurse at one time, I was not a CFN so I can't speak to that. I just think that the initiative says something about the candidate. As I say, no empirical evidence, just outstanding anecdotal exp with specialty certified nurses.
To clarify, the BCEN recognised exam for flight nurses is known as CFRN. What concerns me is that you talk about a rather arbitrary process of writing off people based on arbitrary concepts. As far as I know, I do not work at your hospital, so I suppose I really do not care in any physical sense; however, there may exist highly qualified individuals and an untapped pool of talent by limiting your pick to such arbitrary concepts such as high school graduation after 1995.
Ah, CFRN, ok. As i said, i necer took it so couldn't speak to it. As for the rest, Yes, I think i acknowledged that several pages ago. It is what it is, imperfect to be sure. I guess we could only interview people that mailed in their resumes on pink scented paper or some other arbitrary criteria. Bottom line, we are not going to interview every applicant. We don't have the time or opportunity. So if we don't know them, we look for some indication that they give a damn about the job. Years of experience in noted institutions and specialty certification seems better than pink stationary. We have had very positive results from our imperfect screening method. I'm not going to be working there myself much longer, so like you, I dot really care either. ;-)
unfortunately, my icu hires new grads and seems to be a feeder unit for anesthesia school. most of the new grads we hire aren't interested in being icu nurses -- they just want the icu experience for their anesthesia school applications. and yes, it affects their work ethic. they aren't invested in the unit and don't seem to give a rip about their jobs, their colleagues or even their patients. excessive call-outs and poor work ethic has been a major problem in this group of nurses. interestingly enough, they all claim to be hard workers and good nurses.
currently we have several 20-somethings on administrative leaves for no call/no shows, calling in sick 10 minutes before the shift starts, posting inappropriate pictures from the workplace on facebook or coming to work under the influence. we also have an older nurse on fmla because his 20-something daughter's risky behavior resulted in a near-fatal accident.
the entitled behavior seems to start on the first day of orientation for some of our 20-somethings -- they want to have the same preceptor every day "for my orientation needs" yet want to have every weekend off "because it's my friend's wedding." many have asked that the preceptors adjust themselves to the orientee's preferred schedule. although the job offer letter states clearly that the position is a day/night rotating one, many of these new grads are shocked when they're expected to work nights, much less weekends or holidays. any negative feedback, no matter how tactful or richly deserved, leads to charges that they're being targeted or picked on. they're quick to demand a new preceptor because their orientation isn't exactly what they've envisioned and if they don't immediately get a different preceptor, they complain about it. (we don't have enough experienced nurses to precept, much less enough to switch preceptors because the orientee doesn't like the orientation.) several orientees have had their parents call to demand changes in schedule or preceptor for them.
i'm not saying that all 20-somethings are lazy and entitled -- although many are -- or that all 50-somethings are hard working and model employees -- although many are. but i have to say that until recently, i'd never heard of a parent calling the child's boss to demand a change of schedule or whatever for them!
why do some of these people still have jobs? there are plenty of nurses out there who would be happy to take their jobs. those behaviors should not be condoned.
Could it be that every generation says this about the next one, because we gain in work ethic and sense of responsibility, and the need to work to pay for mortgages and kids and cars etc as we get older? When I was younger, I stayed up later, took more days off, and was less aware of the impact of my actions on other people. It's cyclical, people. We were all 20-ish at one time, and most of us were more into "me" than anyone else at that age, because we could be! Enjoy it while you're young, responsibilities and burdens will be upon you soon enough, and then you can be bitter and judgmental like us old folks ahead of you!
I would bet a hundred bucks that "HR" has very little to do with whether your hospital "wants" BSN staff... It's probably more likely that your nursing leadership has set that standard. HR recruits and hires for what Nursing says they need. If a BSN degree is required for your educator, preceptor, and leadership positions, HR might suggest your nursing managers choose more candidates with BSNs than not, but that's just smart planning for future needs, so the workforce is promotable. Just sayin'.
PhilaNurs
3 Posts
I believe it is well understood that when posters say that all nurses under 30 are slackers, etc. they are not speaking of each and every one. With that understanding, this thread still irks me beyond belief.
It is not an age problem we have on our hands, it is a personality problem. You are going to have slackers and free loaders in every business, and of EVERY age group. For every 20-something nurse you have calling off for being hung over, I'm sure you could find a 50-something nurse lacking off in their duties (not saying they all do this, it is just an example). Maybe your particular hospital/clinic does have an issue specifically with younger nurses, but I bet there is another that is having a problem with older nurses.
If institutions are hiring and keeping these poor workers, then take it in to your own hands to have a sit-down with your manager and discuss the problems. Encourage peer evaluations, and be truthful.. there is something that can be done. I know plenty of hard working nurses who are in sub par positions or are out of work that would be very willing to fill those spots.
On another note, I can see how a smaller hospital that doesn't have many educational/support resources can't exactly have the luxury of training new nurses. But save that, as a profession we have to be willing to teach new nurses and have ICU/ED training programs in our hospitals. Without these, who is going to fill our ICU's and ED's when all the experienced nurses have retired? And what happened to a little variety? You don't have to be someone's mother to give a little of your time to teach and advise.
Lastly, I've been told that a lot of ICU/ED's like to hire new grads because they can mold them from the get-go, and don't have to reshape bad habits that have formed from their previous experience (Something that is talked about at a lot of AACN meetings!). So there is hope for you new grads hoping to become critical care nurses!