Nurses That Eat Their Young

[kitcatt24]

I will have a side of humility with that...

My career beginning...

The phrase "nurses eat their young" is often said. I learned it quite early in my career. I was perplexed on why an older, wiser nurse would not want to show me the ropes, why they would they not want to guide me and mold me to their perfect mini me. Most of the time nurses did not want to be bothered with training others, they did not have time or they just plain did not care. Many times I was just left to fend for myself wondering if I was going to make a major error or worse actually kill somebody because nobody wanted to take the time to speak to me or give me eye contact. I promised early in my career I was never going to be to like that. I would always make that nurse feel welcomed and comfortable in coming to me for advice or questions. Feeling unwanted was such a horrible feeling.

I came through with all my promises year after year through many different types of jobs. I have always had the mentality that I treated people just how I wanted to be treated. It worked just find most of my life until 2013.

As the years move on...

I came across a person that I had never encountered before in my life. I met Shelly in June she was bubbly, fresh, not the sharpest tool in the shed but was so sweet. I invested quite a bit of time working with her, building her self-esteem up. Explaining reports and charts. The jobs we had at that time had a lot to do with marketing so we spent hours doing role playing on marketing scenarios. I taught her how to analyze reports, and compare it to our competitors. I was so proud of her on how well she caught on.

Well, there is also another saying "Fool me once shame on you, Fool me twice shame on me". Shelly was playing me! She was collecting data the entire time in order to further here career, to take a jump forward. Shelly then moved forward in the company received an award with the information I gave her and claimed it as her own. Shelly got a pay raise and I stayed at the same rate. Shelly also moved up in positions and I stayed in the same position. I was so angry and upset. The thoughts that went through my head first, besides running her pretty blonde head over with my car was, This is why us older, wiser nurses eat our young. Yes I did run in the mirror and double checked. I have become that older nurse overnight. I am now protective of my knowledge. I felt worse now than when I was that young kid nurse who barely knew anything. I felt like I was tricked, I felt old, out played and too slow. This was never going to happen to me again, I told myself. I was never a ladder climber...but I certainly was not going to sit here and hold the dame thing while others climbed it!

Common ground...

So where is the common ground? Where you do stand where you not have to eat your younger coworkers for breakfast, lunch or dinner, and you do not completely give them all of your trade secrets? Why this phrase is only said in the nursing field? Are we to be exempt from this type of behavior because our job is for caring for others? Do we have some sort of godly quality that makes us magical or something?

My promise...

I can promise to be kind to others, be caring and I can reflect on that one act to not be true to every young nurse out there, and not every older nurse eats their young. We all have knowledge to share and the only way this knowledge is going to be passed on is to share it and we will have to take that leap of faith as we do everyday as we care for or patients to empowers those who will be there when we can no longer go on.

[Nurse3000]

"Eating your young" is a very disrespectful term -- and has been become a hot button for many senior nurses who have poured time, care and energy into precepting a new nurse only to be accused of "NETY" the moment some criticism is offered that the newbie perceives as less than positive. Some new nurses -- and the number seems to be growing -- cannot seem to accept negative feedback. ANY negative feedback.

As far as your point about consistently offering negative feedback, what would you have us do if the newbie is consistently screwing up? There was one orientee (not mine, thank goodness) who complained that "I'm being bullied. Every time I give insulin, she gets on my case!" True -- but every time she gave insulin, she tried to give it with the wrong syringe -- of course her preceptor "got on her case." I guess the preceptor could have said "There, there, Newbie. It's OK. You killed your patient with an insulin overdose, but you've done great active listening with the family."

Your point about varying the feedback to the mood of the person receiving the feedback seems strange, too. Feedback should be varied to the situation, you're right, but it shouldn't all be dependent upon the orientee's mood. If the orientee is consistently attempting to give insulin with the wrong syringe, obviously the negative feedback from the first few times isn't sinking in. Time for a bit more strongly worded and strongly delivered feedback.

What is a NETY?

Criticism? Is telling a newgrad nurse infront of 5 other people that their current partner is going to leave them, or constantly overhearing that, "these new nurses don't know anything" after going through a 3 year degree in this day and age, not humiliating and just plain nasty? That nurse went home upset and looking for confirmation from her partner that he isn't leaving her and planning to marry her. What about, eye rolling and heavily sighing and abruptly stating the person's name, when that person has asked for where normal saline is kept, if one doesnt know where it is?

What about making sure no one is around and then saying, "YOU HAVENT DONE ANYTHING", right at a start of a shift, when one was merely trying to read the notes about the pt's they were looking after?

Why do people deny that bullying is non-existent? It's ridiculous. People's heads are so far up their ass that they refuse to look at their own behaviour, reflect on it, swallow their pride and realise they were/or are going the wrong way about things. It's rather frustrating.

"Eating our young" can be a disrespectful term, but then why do you have "Fat, Old, Ugly, Biter" and such negative and potentially offensive words in your signature on this forum. It's pretty hypocritical.

Negative feedback? That wording worries me. Why does it have to be negative? Can't it be contructive? or posttive, useful, helpful, or encouraging? Must it be 'negative'? That choice of word indicates potentiall lack of acceptance, lack of respect and rejection from the person giving the apaprent, 'negative feedback'.

The e.g. with the 'newbie' giving wrong insulin. We are human after all. There is such thing as, "human error", I bet you anything that girl was a new nurse who just needed some guidance and constructive feedback? or was she just getting some nasty lip about it, which made her feel more insecure and bad about making the mistake or even staying as a nurse.

[TABLE=class: vk_tbl vk_gy]

[TR]

[TD=class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl]and this:[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

"There, there, Newbie. It's OK. You killed your patient with an insulin overdose, but you've done great active listening with the family."

Is this just a joke or are you genuinely harshly judging this person; also, it seems as though you may be catrasophising this (possibly junior) nurse's situation (?). The preceptor sounded like she had to give constructive criticism, however, in your eyes, if you were the preceptor you possibly would have made her feel bad by patronising her and saying, "There, there.... you nearly killed someone?".... Gosh, I'd feel worried to be working with someone with that attitude.

Varying reponses and communication to different individuals and there mood, is from a concept, which you're probably already aware of: Emotional intelligence. It's the ability to read one's own emotions, then to be able to respond to someones covert and overt emotions in a way that is apporpriate to that factor: mood. For e.g. if you can see someone looks worried, upset, unconfident with what they're doing we would take a more gentle, and calm approach. Where as if you can see that the person looks strong and resilient, then you could use a more officious, or stronger tone, because one has realised that the orientee can "hack it" and comprehend the message at that point in time.

I didn't say communication is dependant on the orientees mood; although, I appreciate this term you used, because I now think it not only depends on the orientee but the orienter. Communication is a two-way street, and as we know, we are both responsible for relaying information to eachother, not just someone taking a passive, agressive, passive-agressive, assertive stance. We're all responsible.

[SmilingBluEyes]

Ruby Vee, you are my hero. Can I be like you when I grow up?

[Ruby Vee, BSN]

What is a NETY?

"Eating our young" can be a disrespectful term, but then why do you have "Fat, Old, Ugly, Biter" and such negative and potentially offensive words in your signature on this forum. It's pretty hypocritical.

Negative feedback? That wording worries me. Why does it have to be negative? Can't it be contructive? or posttive, useful, helpful, or encouraging? Must it be 'negative'? That choice of word indicates potentiall lack of acceptance, lack of respect and rejection from the person giving the apaprent, 'negative feedback'.

The e.g. with the 'newbie' giving wrong insulin. We are human after all. There is such thing as, "human error", I bet you anything that girl was a new nurse who just needed some guidance and constructive feedback? or was she just getting some nasty lip about it, which made her feel more insecure and bad about making the mistake or even staying as a nurse.

[TABLE=class: vk_tbl vk_gy]

[TR]

[TD=class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl]and this:[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

"There, there, Newbie. It's OK. You killed your patient with an insulin overdose, but you've done great active listening with the family."

Is this just a joke or are you genuinely harshly judging this person; also, it seems as though you may be catrasophising this (possibly junior) nurse's situation (?). The preceptor sounded like she had to give constructive criticism, however, in your eyes, if you were the preceptor you possibly would have made her feel bad by patronising her and saying, "There, there.... you nearly killed someone?".... Gosh, I'd feel worried to be working with someone with that attitude.

Varying reponses and communication to different individuals and there mood, is from a concept, which you're probably already aware of: Emotional intelligence. It's the ability to read one's own emotions, then to be able to respond to someones covert and overt emotions in a way that is apporpriate to that factor: mood. For e.g. if you can see someone looks worried, upset, unconfident with what they're doing we would take a more gentle, and calm approach. Where as if you can see that the person looks strong and resilient, then you could use a more officious, or stronger tone, because one has realised that the orientee can "hack it" and comprehend the message at that point in time.

I didn't say communication is dependant on the orientees mood; although, I appreciate this term you used, because I now think it not only depends on the orientee but the orienter. Communication is a two-way street, and as we know, we are both responsible for relaying information to eachother, not just someone taking a passive, agressive, passive-agressive, assertive stance. We're all responsible.

I have "Fat, Old, Ugly Biter Nurse" in my signature line because (along with "Crusty Old Bat") because I've taken insults hurled at me by ignorant newbies and wannabes and made something positive from them. Do a search on "Crusty Old Bats" and find out about the origination of the "Crusty Old Bats Society". It's not hypocritical, it's ironic.

Not all feedback is going to be positive. Constructive criticism is a very good thing -- when you learn from it. But the orientee in my story got constructive criticism about using the right syringe for giving insulin. She screwed up again and got more constructive criticism. By the time I'd heard about, she had given three doses of insulin a day for three days in a row and every single time, she used the wrong syringe. At some point, it became clear to the preceptor that constructive criticism just wasn't getting through to her. At what point should we become more concerned about the safety of her patient than the orientee's tender feelings? After the second identical screw-up? After the fourth?

And yes, I'm genuinely judging that orientee. It's part of my job. It's part of my job as a staff nurse, as a preceptor, as the chair of the orientation committee. An orientee who cannot seem to get it right after NINE attempts to draw up and give an insulin dose is dangerous. When constructive criticism doesn't get through, a more strongly worded response is indicated. Or we could just fire her on the spot. Which would you think is kinder and more respectful? What should we have said if she actually DID kill someone?

Years ago, a brand new nurse on her first day off orientation gave 5 mg. of digoxin IV push instead of .5 mg. The patient died. It was a prolonged and ugly code which ended with a 36 year old father of three who was about to be transferred out of ICU going to the morgue instead. In the aftermath, the newbie's preceptor, the charge nurse and the nurse who was next to the newbie (and keeping an eye out for her) were called into the manager's office to discuss what should be done with the newbie. Some wanted to fire her. Others wanted to transfer her to a less acute floor. The former preceptor said, and I quote "I think you're all being to hard on her."

Incredulously, the charge nurse said "She KILLED a patient."

"Yes," said the preceptor. "But she only did it once."

I kind of think you sound like the preceptor. The newbie only overdosed her patient with insulin once -- lets be respectful of her tender feelings and offer her all sorts of positive reinforcement and constructive criticism instead of pulling her off the unit and telling her "You got this wrong NINE times. We don't think you're safe to practice here. Or anywhere you have to give insulin."

I'm all for constructive criticism, respecting others and all that good stuff. In fact, I have often told my orientees (and stated on this forum) that if you don't learn something new from every orientee you precept, you're doing it wrong. I must be doing it right because some of my former orientees have become strong and capable NPs, CRNAs, nurse leaders and even bedside nurses.

[Susie2310]

Ruby Vee is right. Patient safety comes first, last, and foremost. Negative feedback is not necessarily destructive feedback. Patient safety comes first, well before a nurse's feelings, and well before therapeutic communication. Patient's lives are at stake. Errors can seriously harm or kill patients. It is very necessary for nurses to be able to listen to and accept negative feedback that is warranted, and to use that feedback to improve their practice, to enable them to practice safely. This is not a bullying issue; this is an issue of patient safety.

[NanikRN]

The e.g. with the 'newbie' giving wrong insulin. We are human after all. There is such thing as, "human error", I bet you anything that girl was a new nurse who just needed some guidance and constructive feedback? or was she just getting some nasty lip about it, which made her feel more insecure and bad about making the mistake or even staying as a nurse.>QUOTE

Seriously? Did you miss the part where Ruby said she did this every. Single. Time.?

Picture someone you love dearly. Would you want that person to care for your loved one?

Would you feel better about your loved one's fate knowing that this nurse' s precepter was gentle and coddled her, waiting for that magic moment when young nurse realizes that giving

ml not units of insulin is .. Well, gosh darn, not a good thing?

This isn't little league. You don't get a trophy for just showing up. We require that you think and learn from your mistakes.

[Nurse3000]

Wow hahaa, you guys are on the attack, hey?

Ignorant newbies? wannabees? (What even is that? lol,isnt that a spice girls song?)

No wonder you types get called the things you do. Y'all sound too cranky for your own good!

So they say, if you can't beat em, join em, OK, i'll come down to your nasty, arrogant levels:

Sorry, but I have the right to opinion as do all of you, and I shouldn't not have to feel like I'm being spoken down to because of that, i.e., "um, did you like, not read that, omg"?

I don't disagree with the words that are being said here... but come on ladies/gentlemen?; some of you, get off of your high horses. The whole nursing shtick doesnt revolve around America, and how American's see things: which is often a culture of punishment, cockiness and, imprisonment.

What about more liberal cultures, like Scandanavian? Whereby they don't criminalise humans, but rehabilitate, help, support, keep their eyes and minds open? Get over yourselves. You don't know every damn thing.

And also, take those kinds of nurses to a board instead of having a whine about how you guys are so much better than she is. Feeding off of your egos on how you have got something right, and this person hasn't.

I'm sure you've got a lot of things wrong in your nursing, with say, um... your ethics, morals and legal frameworks.

There's always more to the story and I don't have to believe one darn thing that you guys are saying or perhaps even fabricating...just because your a mini celebrity on "allnurses".com, with your thosands of posts. Yeah, good on ya mate.

I know theres a**holes out there... and we've got to be careful of types, like you guys... minute, miserable, power trippers.

This "isn't little league, you don't get trophies", it ought to be, "WE require that WE think about what we're doing"... (but with you guys, it's "me and my mates excluded, coz we're like special and never get it wrong"). Cough.

Get over yourselves ladies, you don't know everything :)

and that's why it can become bullying, and 'nurses eating their young' because of the overwhelming arrogance that is displayed by these ***** ***** bag nurses.

These types of nurses are like a damn Jekyll and Hyde, nice as pie (fake) one minute and a little devil the next. They makes people's lives in that hospital, families, friends, patients, staff, miserable, full of shame and a damn punishment.

Beware, you're in for a scare... Keep your distance and keep on believing in yourself.

[WKShadowNP, DNP, APRN]

Is it just me or is the word "that" instead of "who" in the title bugging anyone?

Not to be critical. It just stands out to me.

OP, is your question answered yet...or rather have you acknowledged that you've received the answer?

[Nurse3000]

Is it just me or is the word "that" instead of "who" in the title bugging anyone?

Not to be critical. It just stands out to me.

OP, is your question answered yet...or rather have you acknowledged that you've received the answer?

Nah bro.

[NanikRN]

This "isn't little league, you don't get trophies", it ought to be, "WE require that WE think about what we're doing"... (but with you guys, it's "me and my mates excluded, coz we're like special and never get it wrong"). Cough.:

If you're going to use my words to try and prove your point, use them correctly. I said no trophies are given ... Just for showing up.

This isn't a game. Either show up with your critical thinking cap on- not making the same mistakes over and over or - get ready for the consequences. My patient's saftey overides an orientee's need for coddling

[LadyFree28, BSN, LPN, RN]

Somebody...PLEASE think about the PATIENTS!!!

Ok. I feel better now.

I already know who's thinking about them.