Nurses Exempt

Lennonninja, MSN, APRN, NP · Feb 25, 2015

We have to work 80 hours before getting overtime. And mandatory meetings and committees and such don't count towards overtime hours I have some months where I have 9-10 hours committee meetings all in one week, no overtime for me.

VANurse2010 · Feb 25, 2015

The nurses used to get overtime once they hit over 40 hours in a week. Now if a nurse picks up another shift, say an 8 hour shift and they already worked their 3 12 hour shifts, Instead of getting overtime for those 4 extra hours, they won't get it unless they have a total of 80 hrs worked for the pay period. You get it?

Psst... that's illegal; A violation of the Fair Labor Standards Act.

Tenebrae, BSN, RN · Feb 25, 2015

The nurses used to get overtime once they hit over 40 hours in a week. Now if a nurse picks up another shift, say an 8 hour shift and they already worked their 3 12 hour shifts, Instead of getting overtime for those 4 extra hours, they won't get it unless they have a total of 80 hrs worked for the pay period. You get it?

No. How long is a pay period where you are?

Here, most pay periods are two weeks and we dont get paid extra unless we work over 80 hours in those two weeks.

A salary is where you get paid the same amount every pay period regardless of how many hours you work

HouTx, BSN, MSN, EdD · Feb 25, 2015

RNs certainly qualify for exempt status according to FLSA. However, the issue of 'overtime' can be very complex. According to FLSA, exempt = no overtime pay & no minimum wage requirement (avg. hourly wage for hours worked). But, in any smart organization, they are going to realize that nurses will beat feet if they are not paid for hours worked. That's probably why they will pay extra (straight time usually) if you work an extra shift.

I think there are some distinct advantages to exempt status for staff nurses. The biggest one is being allowed to go home if census is down... without any reduction in pay. If they don't do this, there is no real advantage. The downside? having to come in and attend meetings, education, etc. without any additional pay.

GPSteiner · Feb 25, 2015

I can say that this is not a magnet thing, I've worked for two hospitals that acquired Magnet status while I was employed there and no clinical staff nurse had a set up like you're mentioning. Sounds like personal choice of your hospital or its company

Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN · Feb 25, 2015

Ok here is the deal as I have always understood it as a manager.

There are two ways of paying OT according to Fair Wage and Labor. 40 hour work week which means over 40 hours in one week is OT or a 8/80 which means anything over 8 hours OR over 80 hours is OT. If they document properly and make a

so-called "7(k)" systems (which are also sometimes called "Garcia cycles"). 29 USC Â§207(k). In 7(k) systems, FLSA overtime pay is due if, when, and to the extent a police officer, fire fighter or EMS employee actually works more than the number of hours specified by the Department of Labor as applying to a particular "work period." For example, under a "14 day 7(k) work period" system a police officer is due FLSA overtime pay only if, when and to the extent actual hours worked exceed 86 in the 14 day work period.

That means they can only pay OT after 80 hours.

So....most nurses are non-exempt employees and at therefore entitled to OT. If they are claiming you as exempt and they dock even one min for being late they have just documented you as an non exempt employee.

An exempt employee is usually a manager.....

exempt or nonexempt depends on (a) how much they are paid, (b) how they are paid, and © what kind of work they do. With few exceptions, to be exempt an employee must (a) be paid at least $23,600 per year ($455 per week), and (b) be paid on a salary basis, and also © perform exempt job duties. These requirements are outlined in the FLSA Regulations (promulgated by the U.S. Department of Labor). Most employees must meet all three "tests" to be exempt.

NOw to be exempt the employee must fulfill all three requirements

There are three typical categories of exempt job duties, called "executive," "professional," and "administrative."Exempt executive job duties.
Job duties are exempt executive job duties if the employee
regularly supervises two or more other employees, and also
has management as the primary duty of the position, and also,
has some genuine input into the job status of other employees (such as hiring, firing, promotions, or assignments).

Some facilities try that nurses are we are learned professionals and we manage others as a part of our position. However most nurses on the floor fail to meet the genuine input into the job status of another employee...hiring, firing, discipline. They have been sued and paid back wages. It has been argued that nurses fulfill the requirement because they make assignments but it has not won in court.

There is NO requirement to pay OT for meetings, inservices, or classes as they are considered "Non-productive time" in other words you are not at the patient bedside where a majority of your work is usually done.

In a long winded answer....yes it is legal to pay you regular pay unless you go over 80 hours in 14 days. Some places have tried this and found that nurses stopped working extra shifts or staying over when they lost the OT because they were canceled later within the pay period. Is it fair? No. Is it legal Yes. Does it save the facility money? Yes.

Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) Coverage (Exempt vs. Non-Exempt -- The Online Wages, Hours and Overtime Pay Resource

Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) Overtime -- The Online Wages, Hours and Overtime Pay Resource

Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN · Feb 25, 2015

See....administrators, CEO/CFO's, count on nurses not being familiar with the law and will toss out outrageous ideas and policies. If no one calls them on it....they save money. If you call them on it...you might lose your job. It's a bad situation all around. Just another reason nurses need to think about joining together and collective bargain like the police and fire.

Ruby Vee, BSN · Feb 25, 2015

Hello all,
I'm a new nurse and I start my new job in a couple weeks. The hospital I'm working at just started this new professional model for nurses where they're basically salary paid and can't get overtime (well premium pay) until after 80 hours.
Is is this the new trend in nursing? Just curious as to how more experienced nurses like this or if this is even common.

Salary isn't a new model for staff nurses; it's been around at least 15 years or so. Mostly, it favors the employer and not the employee. It's not common, and wouldn't have flown at all in states with a strong nursing union. Say you stay late to chart -- an hour here, 90 minutes there . . . you don't get paid overtime unless you stay more than two hours after the end of your 12 hour shift. Not only do you not get overtime, you don't get paid at all. If you stay an hour late every single day, that's 20 hours every six weeks with no pay. You don't get paid overtime unless you work more than 80 hours in a two week pay period -- that means an extra four hour shift or longer. But wait -- if you took sick time, a vacation day or a holiday during that pay period, your four hours are straight pay. Furthermore, if you get called in for a staff meeting, that's straight time as well.

That policy really sticks it to folks who work a straight 3-12s per week. They'd have to work an extra shift longer than 8 hours to get overtime pay -- for the time over 8 hours only. So if you get called in to work extra, you do it for straight time. Differentials are rolled into the salary -- they assume you work half days/half nights, every other weekend and 3.5 of the seven annual holidays. That's all added to your pay. So if you work extra night shifts, no extra differential. If you pick up Janet's Christmas so she can spend it with the son home from the Army, you're not getting any extra holiday pay. And if you work extra weekends -- no extra differential.

On the other hand, if the census is low and you take a day off -- you either have to switch into another shift or use your vacation time. No such thing as taking a day off without paying. The whole system is weighted to favor the employer, and if I had it to do all over again, I wouldn't have taken the damned job. There WAS a nursing shortage then.

Carrie RN · Feb 26, 2015

This sounds like management does not want to pay the nurses overtime like they deserve.

KelRN215, BSN, RN · Feb 26, 2015

Salary isn't a new model for staff nurses; it's been around at least 15 years or so. Mostly, it favors the employer and not the employee. It's not common, and wouldn't have flown at all in states with a strong nursing union. Say you stay late to chart -- an hour here, 90 minutes there . . . you don't get paid overtime unless you stay more than two hours after the end of your 12 hour shift. Not only do you not get overtime, you don't get paid at all. If you stay an hour late every single day, that's 20 hours every six weeks with no pay. You don't get paid overtime unless you work more than 80 hours in a two week pay period -- that means an extra four hour shift or longer. But wait -- if you took sick time, a vacation day or a holiday during that pay period, your four hours are straight pay. Furthermore, if you get called in for a staff meeting, that's straight time as well.
That policy really sticks it to folks who work a straight 3-12s per week. They'd have to work an extra shift longer than 8 hours to get overtime pay -- for the time over 8 hours only. So if you get called in to work extra, you do it for straight time. Differentials are rolled into the salary -- they assume you work half days/half nights, every other weekend and 3.5 of the seven annual holidays. That's all added to your pay. So if you work extra night shifts, no extra differential. If you pick up Janet's Christmas so she can spend it with the son home from the Army, you're not getting any extra holiday pay. And if you work extra weekends -- no extra differential.
On the other hand, if the census is low and you take a day off -- you either have to switch into another shift or use your vacation time. No such thing as taking a day off without paying. The whole system is weighted to favor the employer, and if I had it to do all over again, I wouldn't have taken the damned job. There WAS a nursing shortage then.

This is pretty much how our compensation worked when I worked in the hospital. If your position was 0.9 FTE, you were paid for 72 hrs every other week regardless of how many hours you actually worked. The hospital could schedule you for 96 hrs in a pay period and you'd get paid for 72. They'd then schedule you for fewer hours in subsequent pay periods but this system clearly benefits the employer- the non-exempt nurse would get 16 hrs of OT that the exempt nurse does not in this situation. Differentials were paid based on your "percentage of off shifts" and were adjusted quarterly. But the only thing they considered were night shifts... if you worked extra evenings or weekends, they didn't factor that in as an off shift and would cut your differential if your night % dropped below 50%.

If you stay late to chart or because your patient codes at change of shift, you are doing so on your own time. They didn't pay for anything beyond your shift and, unlike true salaried employees, you couldn't just come in 2 hours late the next day to make up for it.

There were some pros to it- like you could work 48 hrs for 3 weeks in a row and have a week off with pay without having to use any vacation time, but you're still losing out on 24 hrs of OT in that situation.

justmia1089 · Feb 26, 2015

Well, this sounds like it sucks! But, I'm a new grad with limited options. I passed Nclex, had an interview and got hired all within a week and a half (mainly bc I was already working in the hospital, but on a different floor). So I guess I don't really have any other choice. :***: Thank you all for the feedback!

chare · Feb 26, 2015

There is NO requirement to pay OT for meetings, inservices, or classes as they are considered "Non-productive time" in other words you are not at the patient bedside where a majority of your work is usually done.

Actually, there is. Whether time worked is "productive" or not has no bearing on whether you are paid overtime.

The following is from the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) Overtime -- The Online Wages, Hours and Overtime Pay Resource link that you provided:

With only a few exceptions, all time an employee is required to be at the premises of the employer is work time. All regular shift time is work time. This includes "breaks" (if there are breaks), and "nonproductive" time (for example, time spent by a receptionist reading a novel while waiting for the phone to ring).