Nurses Eating Their Young- A Different Perspective

We all have heard it before. Nurses eat their young. We all have complained about it and people tell us "oh no, don't do that." Simple fact is that it happens, and I will try to explain to you why it does happen and why it is not always a bad thing.

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Nurses eat their young. It happens and people complain about it like it is a bad thing. It may be in your eyes if you are the one being eaten, but in my eyes I am going to eat you alive and spit out your bones into something that resembles a nurse. You are entering the cauldron of fire, so expect to get singed.

That above statement is already setting some of you on edge. I understand that and I accept that. I felt the same way at first, but as the years have passed by I have learned why we do it and more importantly, the reason. Let me explain to you why in a way that is not nursing.

Imagine if you are a soldier ... Lets take it from there

  1. Patient = fire team
  2. Pilot = Nurse Practitioner
  3. Officers = management
  4. Your squad mates = your fellow nurses with more experience
  5. Enemy = death
  6. MD = (sometimes the enemy) a fellow service member form another branch

You enlisted in the service, you passed basic training (nursing school) and now you are ready to join your unit. ( I know I skipped AIT, for those military among us) You show up on the bus all excited and happy to be chosen for this special unit. It is everything you wanted, it is just where you wanted to be. Great, happy to have you aboard, now get out the salt and pepper, or maybe the opposite is true. You do not want to be here, but rather this is the only place you could get to right now.

Fine, get out the salt and pepper

Be prepared to be eaten. I am your new squad Sargent. I am there to help you get acclimated to the unit and the patrols as FAST AS I CAN. You show up in your new shiny uniforms, new boots and the new weapons (ie: stethoscope, tablet, etc) and look around you and see the older squad mates' uniforms are faded, they may even be a bit tattered, our combat boots may not be shiny, heck they may even be a bit soiled. But you know what, to us your uniform looks uncomfortable on you and those ugly boots we are wearing, they are like a second skin to us and those new ones you got are going to blister your feet. We accept that and realize that with age your boots are going to get broken in and your uniform will fade. Just don't point out to us how yours is better or newer. New does not always mean better, sometimes our weapons that you think are old and stupid are the ones that never fail in combat. You start out like that and I will eat you so hard right there that you will wish you were never born. Your old Drill instructors (nursing instructors) have nothing on me in making you feel small if I choose to.

I introduce you to your squad mates and I show you around

I know you are new and do not know where everything is, but LISTEN to me when I am talking to you and pointing things out. I know it is a lot of information to digest, but it may save your life and your fire mission's life if you listen. I expect you to ask me questions, but think about the question first. Did I already answer it? Did I not just show you where the supply tent was? Did I not point out where to keep your gear? Did I not show you how to reload your gun or program in the fire coordinates on the fire control computer? I probably did and if you keep asking I am going to start to wonder about you and think maybe you are going to get me killed or the fire team killed.

Time for your first patrol

The officers come by and gives us our mission. We need to work as a team to complete it, there are no Rambos in our unit. Accept the mission, I will be there to help guide you and keep you alive, for now. I do not want the fire mission to fail at all costs. When I feel you are strong enough to do more of the mission on your own, I am going to let you, whether you think you are not.

So now we go into the field for combat against the enemy. I know you learned all these supposedly fancy new ways of combating them, but the enemy doesn't always react the way you were taught it would. Things are different in the field, than in the classroom. Don't tell me how to do something unless I am asking you how it is done the new way. Listen to me how to set up an ambush. I have been fighting these battles many years and I am still alive. Don't look above at the pilots flying around doing their thing while we are in the trenches and say you would rather be there. It takes time to learn to fly, and I skin you and filet you alive if you think you are better than the rest of your squad mates. If you express an interest in learning to fly, I will be happy to help you get to the point you can learn to fly. I want all my squad mates to succeed, because the fire mission will then succeed.

I am going to jump on you during the training I give you, I am going to eat you up, I am going to speak bad of you, I am going to report on you to the officers. I will make your life miserable for a while. I may not let you take lunch with your buddies from basic who are now in an another unit in your command. They may have their own mission to conduct, or our mission is going badly. Sometimes I may make you work extra hard helping another soldier out, who is up to their butt in crocodiles. I am also going to praise you when you need it, but don't count on it very often. I am going to ride your butt so hard, you are going to wonder why you even enlisted. You are going to think I am unfair, that I am trying to get you killed, that I am giving you too big of missions at times, but know this. AT ALL COSTS THE FIRE TEAM MUST DO THEIR BEST! Sometimes we don't win all the battles and death does come for the mission. we accept that and expect you to accept it and pick yourself up and carry on soldier. The time to grieve is later in private when it fails, but know this; we old eat their young and are also grieving about the loss, but realize there are other missions we are needed on at that moment.

My Goal

My goal in eating you up is to toughen you up so that you may lead other soldiers in combat and save the fire missions, maybe even help you get to be a pilot or an officer, which not all of us want. Some of us were previous officers but decided we liked the trenches with the blood and guts and muck better. My goal is to see you succeed and carry on our legacy and eventually replace me when I fall. Which one day I will fall and become a distant memory. Until that moment I am going to eat you up and spit out your bones into proud strong self reliant Nurse. That is why eating our young is not a bad thing.

Related topics...

Why Do Nurses Eat Their Young?

Nurses Eating Their Young Is Not Okay

Watch WHY Nurses Eat Their Young?! My Story video...

Specializes in OR, Nursing Professional Development.

I think there has to be a balance. New nurses aren't going to be perfect, and they are going to have to expect some honest constructive feedback. However, that doesn't mean that new nurses should be eaten alive and have their bones spit out (interesting visual, there, OP). New nurses also have to respect that their preceptors (even if only for one shift) are having their routine thrown completely out of whack, may find themselves precepting with no notice, and may not be the best suited for the job. In my department, we rotate whose turn it is to precept. None of us have been given any education about how to be a preceptor, although my facility will be offering a (come in on your own time weekend only but we just might give you a pittance extra per hour to precept once you've taken it) course for preceptors. Just like nursing isn't for everyone, neither is precepting, and that is evident even within my smaller department.

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I have always been in a nurturing environment as a student. Were there the hard nosed no nonsense nurses that felt they needed to put you through your paces...sure...but I took that as a challenge.

I think that nursing has it wrong since they stopped training preceptors and ensuring that new nurses are nurtured in a supportive environment so they can feel safe enough to learn and retain what they are being taught. When you have a new nurse who is constantly on guard and stressed he/she is not learning nor retaining what they are being taught...so who is at fault when the new nurse isn't "moving along" properly...to me in some instances it is the preceptors fault and their inability to teach.

But "Bully" and workplace violence are new buzz words and not all cases of NETY are actual cases of bullying. Just recently in the student section a student asked for assistance with their assignment. When they were told we do not do the work for them they became defensive and cried NETY. There is a current environment of "everybody wins" which I think is detrimental to an individuals development to deal with adversity and disappointment. Not everyone wins....and we do not do your work for you. The OP became defensive and cried "I'm being bullied" NO....you aren't being bullied you were caught trying to cheat the system and you are angry.

Just because corrections are not delivered with sunshine and rainbows doesn't mean you are being bullied. Nurses don't mince words. We don't have time to molly coddle new nurses. Not all criticism is being bullied....mistakes in nursing can cost someone their life. It is important that the new nurse realizes the implication of their mistakes. There is very little leeway in healthcare for mistakes. Too often I have seen the new nurse with the "Whatever" attitude as they roll their eyes, snap their gum, and make some statement about just getting their time in to move on to the real jobs like NP or CRNA....just to point out as you gain more responsibility your mistakes will become more dangerous.

I think we need to find a happy medium...tough love mixed with support. Just because a new nurse is told they are wrong is not being bullied. Do I think nurses eat their young no...but there are some that do.

This please!

The gnashing of teeth and wailing of NETY has become the primary obstruction preceptors like myself face when doing what we do. Personally I love getting a group of students when I happen to be around when they are in house. It is really difficult at times though to give honest feedback and criticism without being accused of NETY.

Funny example from yesterday:

I snatched up a student whether they liked it or not Arnie style(Come with me if you want to live). University grad was independently trying to start an IV line. I was walking by the room back to the nurses station and noticed a peculiar sight when passing that room. There was a foley bag hanging from an IV Pole. Suffice to say, she was trying to hook it up to a #24 gauge she started on the patient. I didn't yell, scream, use degrading language, or otherwise attempt to humiliate her. I quietly removed the foley from the pole, discontinued the line (no return), told the patient we'll be back in a few minutes as I needed to borrow the nurse for help with something else.

When I got her outside the room, I asked her what she was doing. Man, you want to talk about defensiveness! This gal was hot, face flushed with anger. So I calmly explained to her that she was about to give that patient complications of biblical proportions. After chatting with her preceptor for a minute, I was given the thumbs up to steal her for a short time. So I showed her what materials were needed, how to check orders on the patient to save repetitive tasks, and gathered up everything we needed. So, I walked the patient, through everything I was doing and why with her attached to my hip. We started a #18g, drew some blood samples, hooked up, and ran some D5 1/2 NS for a minute while explaining to the patient that they had some IV contrast coming in the am, and the larger cath will make the testing process much easier. Then ran the piggyback ABT.

So back to the nursing station we went. Her preceptor and I explained in great detail what would have gone wrong if she continued on her own the way she was. How any of us are available as a resource, and how I love teaching procedures and to come get me anytime. She seemed to get it, but was still three shades of angry red. I slapped her preceptor on the back and went on my way. There were no requests to assist or instruct from the new nurse for the duration of shift. Though concerned, I had my own tasks which kept me from checking up on things.

At the end of my shift, I get pulled into the office. To receive a lecture regarding professionalism, and not bullying new nurses. I'm amazed I kept a straight face while defending my actions regarding the new nurse. Then called my agency to forewarn them of an incoming phone call from the facility regarding the situation.

So here's something to consider for you new nurses out there. I love teaching procedures. I'm the go to person almost everywhere I go. I've even had people call me at home to help out because of my methods of setting up in anticipation of what's happening next. I went out of my way to prevent unintentional harm to that patient, and to help out a new nurse. My reward: my first ever DNR. One which I, and the staff there are challenging.

If I, or someone like me (experienced and confident), steps in to help you it's not bullying. If I take time to teach you, I'm not trying to eat you ( I don't take lunches;)). If I am explaining a process step by step to the patient, I'm doing that after talking to you in detail as a reminder of what to do and why. If you have questions, ask away. But don't try to continuously interrupt my responses with a rationale you were taught in class. It might not be appropriate for the situation ( like starting a #24g line on a patient scheduled for Stat bloodwork and an am CT with Contrast). And if a more experienced nurse comes into the room wanting to hold on a task and talk to you at the station, just go with it. They are most likely trying to politely stop something they are sure is harmful. Disagree at the station, not at the bedside (yes, that nurse thought it was my problem I stopped her).

@#$SonofamotherlessgoatOHGEEZ&*Cheeseandrice!@#

/vent

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Specializes in Mental Health, Gerontology, Palliative.

Funny example from yesterday:

I snatched up a student whether they liked it or not Arnie style(Come with me if you want to live). University grad was independently trying to start an IV line. I was walking by the room back to the nurses station and noticed a peculiar sight when passing that room. There was a foley bag hanging from an IV Pole. Suffice to say, she was trying to hook it up to a #24 gauge she started on the patient. I didn't yell, scream, use degrading language, or otherwise attempt to humiliate her. I quietly removed the foley from the pole, discontinued the line (no return), told the patient we'll be back in a few minutes as I needed to borrow the nurse for help with something else.

When I got her outside the room, I asked her what she was doing. Man, you want to talk about defensiveness! This gal was hot, face flushed with anger. So I calmly explained to her that she was about to give that patient complications of biblical proportions. After chatting with her preceptor for a minute, I was given the thumbs up to steal her for a short time. So I showed her what materials were needed, how to check orders on the patient to save repetitive tasks, and gathered up everything we needed. So, I walked the patient, through everything I was doing and why with her attached to my hip. We started a #18g, drew some blood samples, hooked up, and ran some D5 1/2 NS for a minute while explaining to the patient that they had some IV contrast coming in the am, and the larger cath will make the testing process much easier. Then ran the piggyback ABT.

So back to the nursing station we went. Her preceptor and I explained in great detail what would have gone wrong if she continued on her own the way she was. How any of us are available as a resource, and how I love teaching procedures and to come get me anytime. She seemed to get it, but was still three shades of angry red. I slapped her preceptor on the back and went on my way. There were no requests to assist or instruct from the new nurse for the duration of shift. Though concerned, I had my own tasks which kept me from checking up on things.

At the end of my shift, I get pulled into the office. To receive a lecture regarding professionalism, and not bullying new nurses. I'm amazed I kept a straight face while defending my actions regarding the new nurse. Then called my agency to forewarn them of an incoming phone call from the facility regarding the situation.[snip]

Thats utter crap!

And perhaps an example of PC BS gone mad. And you did it in a really quiet non confrontational way out of ear shot of the patient.

I would have concerns about that new grads competency because any nurse that responds like that to constructive critisim clearly knows it all, and is very much an accident waitng to happen #endsarcasm

The majority of my tutors and preceptors were brilliant and when I read of examples like this one being hauled over the coals for maintaining patient safety that is just @@#!

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Who hangs a foley bag on an IV pole?

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Who hangs a foley bag on an IV pole?

I've seen ASU Grads do stranger things, trust me. They as a group generally speaking are very strong academically, but very questionable in hands on procedures.

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@Kyrshamarks,

If all of this is how you truly feel, I feel sorry for you. It appears as though the basics of teaching adults and how they learn is unknown to you. I'm a certified teacher and have taught children and adults. This is a good resource adult learners Archives - eLearning Industry

More importantly, if what you described is the attitude you have when you've taught/precepted new nurses, with the voracity you painted for us, you aren't bullying, you are hazing.

According to the Cornell University Campus Code of Conduct (Article II.A.1.f)

"To haze another person, regardless of the person's consent to participate. Hazing means an act that, as an explicit or implicit condition for initiation to, admission into, affiliation with, or continued membership in a group or organization, (1) could be seen by a reasonable person as endangering the physical health of an individual or as causing mental distress to an individual through, for example, humiliating, intimidating, or demeaning treatment, (2) destroys or removes public or private property, (3) involves the consumption of alcohol or drugs, or the consumption of other substances to excess, or (4) violates any University policy."

You are entering the cauldron of fire, so expect to get singed.

"The pledges rushed our Fraternity/Sorority. They know we have a "pledge period."'

My goal is to see you succeed and carry on our legacy and eventually replace me when I fall. Which one day I will fall and become a distant memory. Until that moment I am going to eat you up and spit out your bones into proud strong self reliant Nurse [brother /Sister]

Every Nurse/Brother/Sister who "ate them up and spit out their bones"/hazed their student nurses/preceptee/pledges, truly believe that if they don't whip them into shape to look more like the them, that when they graduate, the chapter will fail and all of their hard work will be all for not.

This is the saddest article I've read on AN and it deeply disturbed me. I am heartened to see that they vast majority of responders do not agree with you. There is still hope.

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Specializes in OR.
I've seen ASU Grads do stranger things, trust me. They as a group generally speaking are very strong academically, but very questionable in hands on procedures.

I'm boggling over this "foley-as-IV" situation you describe. We would have been failed out of clinical - that would not have flown.

You can't "un-read" something like that. I now have a picture in my mind that disturbs me no small amount...

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I used to be in the military and the scary picture you painted was not my experience AT ALL...military members are family and we help each other out. After basic and schooling, when I arrived at my unit, everyone was helpful, nice, and there for anything I needed. If what you described is how nursing is... Sign me back up for the military. Geeze. Lol

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I believe the majority of the replies to this topic are "No, nurses do NOT have to eat their young!" I am a student right now going through my first clinical rotation. I learn so much more, and gain more self-confidence from the patient and kind nurses that understand what it takes to mold and shape a successful nurse. And I can tell you that your methods are cruel, selfish and probably illegal. Ever heard the term "workplace bullying?" Google it and read about the damage it does!

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And I can tell you that your methods are cruel, selfish and probably illegal.

Above I called what she is doing hazing which is illegal.

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OP - Having been the victim of emotional abuse, bullying, etc, I have to tell you:

You seem awfully familiar.

I'm having flashbacks. "You want something REAL to cry about?"

I think you should probably re-read your post from the perspective of the recipient. What you have described is abuse.

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Thank you all, for the perspectives. I am preparing to start nursing school in January. Honestly, I wish I had known what nurses were like before I chose it as my future career. I really just wanted to take care of people. It's too late to turn back now. And at least I can brace myself for what's to come. I'm 37. I'm no stranger to the world and its harshness. I've been called every name, been physically threatened, put out fires, and had to clean up every bodily fluid (except CSF)...and that was while working retail jobs! (It's no fun to be the only one in the store who will don trash bags to clean up a fecal explosion off the restroom wall and NOT be a nurse!) I'm one hell of a tough cookie. But I am fair, just, honest, kind, patient, and a realist. I can see now that, be it bad or good, there is an intense hierarchy. I am starting to see that some of the ones in charge just plain like to be in charge. It seems like there is quite a bit of pride involved in nursing. I am well aware that a rookie won't have the same knowledge or experience as a veteran nurse. I understand that lives are at stake here. I get that. But what I don't understand is how attitude and pure years spent in the field is what determines rank. Is it like that everywhere? Does merit, skill, and ability ever factor in?

Don't get me wrong, I can take a lot of flak... if its purpose is to improve me and others. But if the purpose of hazing new nurses is just to make older nurses feel better about themselves, I can't tolerate that. I don't care if "that's the way we do it because that's the way it's always been done, and since I had to go through it, you will too." To me, that's a waste of time. I am far too practical to tolerate anything that is a waste of my time or degrades me, solely to make others feel better about themselves. You don't stand above others by chopping them off at the knees. I'm not saying that the author of this article was trying to convey that point, just that I'm aware it exists. Besides, I'm not going into nursing to waste time, I'm doing it to save lives. I'm a no-bull**** person and I expect no bull**** in return. I leave my emotions and personal life at the door, and I expect the same of everyone else. Having an agenda is NOT no-bull****. Having to ridicule others means you let emotions come into play.

In high school, I had a track coach who pushed us...hard. He didn't give us warm fuzzies or pats on the back- just more laps to run, weights to lift, and hours to train. And it worked. For the two years I was on the team, I made it to the state championship, in the most competitive division in my state. I thrive when I am being challenged. I do extremely well under pressure. Brief, curt responses, such as, "Don't do that" or "That's wrong" or "No" are direct and helpful. They save time and remove emotion from the equation. I like that! I certainly don't need warm fuzzies. Pressure only makes us stronger. I get that and I appreciate it. But I can also say that I am far too old, and far too developed as a human being to require people talking down to me when there is no need for it. Sure, I'll be a rookie soon enough and I won't know everything, but I certainly am no dummy. Just because I'll be the new guy does not automatically make me arrogant or overly-confident. I'm pretty humble and I appreciate it when my humility is recognized and appreciated. Bark orders at me to get the job done, sure thing! But spit on me just because I'm new and you think I'm the stereotypical, arrogant new guy? I don't think so. I've had to train enough employees who had the "Oh I already know that" attitude to understand that it serves no one. I don't want to be presumed to have that attitude just because I'm new. If this is what it's like in the nursing world, well then, I'm going to have one hell of a time. I guess there's always research nursing.

Furthermore, if what is taught in nursing school is nothing like what it's really like, then shouldn't we be working on changing how nursing students are being taught?

Just about everything in "Cool Hand Luke" is appropriate for this thread.

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