Nurse pressing charges

Published

55 y/o male just finds out he has terminal CA. RN comes in room to administer meds and pt becomes verbally then physically abusive. Patient throws meal tray at RN hitting her in the face. No permanent damage just a really swollen black eye. Pt is deemed alert and oriented times three, would you press charges?

If this terminally ill patient were to go into any other place of business and give someone a black eye, I would bet top dollar that they would call law enforcement.

If he had assaulted the pilot on a major airline, he would have been forced by the air marshall to exit the plane before it leaves the ground, and he would be arrested. If he threatened bodily harm toward the bank teller at his local branch, he would have been made by security to leave the premises. If he had slapped the Wal-Mart cashier, the police would have been called on him. If he had tried to punch the movie ticket counter person because 'it is taking too long,' he would have been refused service and possibly had the cops called on him. Does anyone see the pattern that I'm trying to lay out?

the difference being, all these other jobs you mentioned, were not privy to the "whys" of the assault.

do you truly believe that all would have pressed charges if they knew of his recent dx?

i don't believe it for one minute.

it's fine to profess indignance against the concept of violence, but it's unfair and unreasonable to think it applies to every single person who has reacted violently.

everything is circumstantial, and has to be decided uniquely and accordingly.

i just cannot understand all the concrete absolutes.

call me crazy.

leslie

Up Vote Up Vote ×
It would depend on the situation. Like others have said, if this person was always mean, if they were in shock and so on. Many factors I would consider before making my decision.

thank you...

and as it should be.

leslie

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
it really depends on other circumstances... whether the patient is remorseful and sincerely apologizes for what he did or whether he continues being abusive.

i'm thinking he'll be extremely remorseful once the idea of bringing charges is mentioned.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.

yes, getting a cancer diagnosis is upsetting . . . been there, done that. but it's no excuse to blacken the eye of the next person who enters the room. would it have been ok if it had been the doctor he assaulted? the one who actually gave him the diagnosis? how about if it was the cleaning lady? the wife of the patient in the other bed? i would have called the police and pressed charges. whether or not he would be convicted is another story.

Up Vote Up Vote ×

I was told once I had cancer that had spread to my lymph nodes, at that time I had no Idea how long I would be here, I would of expected arrest if I had done that, what the heck? Cancer is NOT an excuse for bad behavior, or anything else!!

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Ahhh, so the question isn't as much "should charges be filed" but rather "will any jury convict"??

- Roy

Well, just based on replies to this thread, a lot of jury members would convict.

A cancer diagnosis or a murdered child is not a license to commit battery on an innocent bystander.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
I was told once I had cancer that had spread to my lymph nodes, at that time I had no Idea how long I would be here, I would of expected arrest if I had done that, what the heck? Cancer is NOT an excuse for bad behavior, or anything else!!

Yes- not an "excuse".... I have never said that violence was ok= and pulled out any illness in my example of exigent circumstances. There are 'reasons' (and nothing is black and white....there are shades of gray). It's not about cancer. It's about extreme circumstances.

How I've read this whole thing is what is the point of charging someone with something, when it's not their normal behavior, and (per the sound of the OP), he wasn't likely to live more than days to weeks) likely not to be alive for any trial. It's not the same as someone who is a chronic offender, has a history of violence, or no "exigent circumstances".

Do you want to take a situation (whatever it is- I used the murder of a child and the parents' reaction w/my comparison) where there is no bigger price to pay, and add to that misery because of an 'outburst'- not calculated pattern of assault? I don't . If you want to drag someone to court to feel like nurses are being the big defenders of their profession- knock yourself out!! Absolutely your right to do so. :)

This is a hypothetical. There are no ways to fill in the gaps re: remorse, attitude, etc. I've been a victim of a really nasty crime- I don't lump all situations together- and can see that there are situations that are above the normal reactions of someone. It's not the same as someone without the exigent circumstances. Or a serial criminal. You want to send a dying man to prison with REAL criminals to live out the rest of his life (if he lives to the trial), and feel ok about it- go for it :)

If someone comes into the ER, and blows people away because he's just a *****, nasty, calculated SOB, nail him to the wall....his goal is violence. A reaction is not the same as a calculated action. jmo :)

Get together, and cheer for sending someone to prison for something that in all probability will never happen again (dead folks tend to be passive :D) Watch his family saying goodbye to him, and not being able to spend time with him. Feel GOOD about saving the face of nursing by throwing this guy to the REAL criminals- gotta love revenge. This guy can't pay for what the real a%%holes do.

Up Vote Up Vote ×

not one of us knows precisely what happened.

a hypothetical 'what-if':

let's say the nurse went in to administer his meds.

pt doesn't want them.

nurse pursues somewhat abruptly or aggressively, will not take no for an answer (and it happens).

pt not only is in horrible mood, he is now feeling pressured and even smothered.

in the height of his frustration, he throws the tray at the nurse, as a final and determined "BACK OFF!!!"

i'll tell you, when i received a dismal dx, it affected my entire family deeply.

my husband, who is a highly emotional, impassioned man, was displacing his angst to our son.

hubby was yelling at son about whatever, and son kept on repeating (not yelling) "dad, get out of my room, dad, get out of my room..." over and over, while ed's voice kept on getting louder and louder.

it got to the point that ed stood *this* close to son's face.

son abruptly lost it and pushed dad out of his room.

dad lost balance and fell...it was a needless situation.

i helped ed get up and dragged him away from son.

was son right in pushing dad? absolutely NOT.

but can anyone understand being provoked to the point of losing it?

i know i can. doesn't make it right, but makes it understandable.

and that's where the gray comes in.

somehow i sense that this may be the situation w/op and patient.

and if it is, i don't see anything clear cut about it.

i do hope the situation works out for all involved.

leslie

Up Vote Up Vote ×
You deemed wrong. Lol, I was just thinking that maybe I'm cruel but I would press charges to the fullest extent of the law. I just wanted to know if I was the only one feeling this way.

Why? His/her defense attorney will only show a jury of HIS/HER peers he was on pain meds, delirious, mentally absent or unstable, any number of things including infection could result in diminshed capacity. Fill out an L/I report, get reimbursed for any medical expenses, and continue on.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
No no no no!!!! Slugging the doctor is unacceptable as well. The doc was doing his job and reporting his findings. How is that worthy of being assaulted?????

Ok, lets reason this thru. What is the mental state/status of the patient at the time of the (any) incident? Head injuries? Nuero deficits? dementia? Delirium? Depression? ok, then, what was the context in which the incident occurred? Ie what was/is the antecedent? In his right mind? Legally, what is /would be thecharge?

Throwing a food tray at a nurse resulting in a black eye and no other injuries, would be, what ? (Assault, 4th degree). What is the sentence ? Probably Anger management, and maybe a day in jail, probably reduced to probation given the cancer diagnosis. Time used to pursue this: ???? Outcome for the person pressing the charges? ?? Worth all the fuss? (the crimes posted in the news articiles contain far more serious, legally, charges). If you want to press charges, you should. If you wanted to you should have done it that day or that minute, and maybe the police would come maybe they would not. Depends. Don't make it more dramatic than it is. Nurses don't get assaulted everyday, all day. Some behavior is tolerated because often times the patient is NOT in their right mind. Just My Opinion.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in CRNA, Finally retired.

Violence should NEVER be tolerated. Once you start making excuses for the assaulter, the logical conclusion is that a rapist should be set free because he was feeling so dejected and angry with a girlfriend relationship. We let it pass because the person is not "in his right mind!"

What about the next time? Why would anyone allow themselves to become a doormat? The OP was VIOLENTLY ASSAULTED. He deserves at least a visit from the police, a warning and a fine - if you feel so bad about his dx.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Oncology/Haemetology/HIV.

In the case of the man here that shot the MD who gave him bad news on the prognosis of his mother, and then started the hostage situation at my hospital......this was not his "official" behavior.

However, in the aftermath, it wwas found that there were issues, that had they been pursued, indicated problems.

Per many posters here, who would probably been let off, because he was under stress and it was "not his normal behavior", had he not killed himself and the pt held hostage.

Despite the fact he endangered many by his actions.

It the case of the Virginia Tech killer as in Columbibe, there had been indications of serious issues, that no one wanted to pursue. People did not take those behavior seriously and did not want to "stigmatize" these young people.

My reason for filing charges has more to do with making and example, and of placing a warning. For whatever reason that the assaulting individual committed the act, there needs to be an examination made of the why and what of the issue, so that it may be prevented in the future and that they individual is put on notice that they need help before they do something worse.

Filing charges, even if they getting dismissed, forces the individual to examine themselves. If nothing is done to make them review their actions, it stands a good chance of allowing them to escalate behavior, without thought of repercussions.

It also leaves a record. So that when/if they escalate, the legal system can better act.

Filing charges is not always punitive....it can lead to help for the perpetrator.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
+ Join the Discussion