Nurse pressing charges

allnurses Guide · Sep 3, 2011

Not enough info to decide. Remorse would be HUGE in this case for me. Especially the immediacy of it. If it hit my face and the patient was apologizing before the tray even hit the ground, we can probably move past it. If the remorse is coming via a statement of regret through his lawyer, probably not. And lots of variables in between frankly.

allnurses Guide · Sep 4, 2011

I had a pt sink her teeth into my forearm, wouldn't let go. Was she stressed? Were her coping skills out of whack? should she have simply been allowed to apologise instead of being restrained and sedated? (mind you, it was the 3rd attempt to run out into subzero weather wearing only a gown, and she had tackled 2 of us to the floor at this point).

Well, the Grand Jury didn't think stress or poor judgement was a good enough excuse. Conviction on 2 felony counts of battery on a health care worker. I still have a scar on my arm.

Anthonyrnbsn, BSN, RN · Sep 4, 2011

This is definetly a tough call. Just reading it I would say definetly press charges. But if somehow it was accidental or he was super tearful and or remorseful I would cut him a break in lieu of his diagnosis. If however He didnt care or was a jerk about it I would press charges regardless. As you may or may not know it is a Felony to assualt a nurse on Duty http://blog.timesunion.com/healthcare/law-makes-it-a-felony-to-assault-a-nurse/685/

Just having that diagnosis doesnt make him untouchable or a good person. You wouldnt condone a known criminal or murderer just because he happened to be terminally Ill

Isabelle49 · Sep 4, 2011

don't think I'd press charges. Not sure how I would act if I were in his shoes!

MrChicagoRN, RN · Sep 4, 2011

I'm gonna go to the supermarket and punch the cashier in the face. When I get arrested my excuse will be that my doc just told me I have gonorrhea and then I'll apologize to the cashier. Do u think I'll get off??

No, you go to jail...unless maybe it was the cashier that gave you gonorrhea :coollook:

nerdtonurse?, BSN, RN · Sep 4, 2011

1 -- when a patient, CA or otherwise, becomes abuse, I leave. I've seen too many people get hurt because they tried to "talk down" a patient. I took enough martial arts to recognize when a sane person's about to get violent (a crazy one will just stab a fork into your eye and go back to eating without changing expression). You look for yelling, for pacing, for "mock battle" like someone smacking one fist into the other hand, or banging a fist on a table, and a "mock charge" where they take a rapid step or two toward you. You do that, I leave, call security to get them to do a "drive by" of the floor. I give the patient 1 hour or until they call before I go back in. If I go back in, I go in with at least one other person. If they tell me to get out, unless I think they are 30 seconds from killing themselves, I leave. If I think they're actively suicidal, I get friends...lots of well muscled friends with badges who like me. And I keep the doc aware of what's going on. I've had enough training so that you...are...NOT...going...to...hurt...ME. However, I don't want to have to explain to the board of nursing why I dislocated every joint from your wrist to your shoulder.

2) This situation went from verbal to physical. Yes, the person was upset. No, you don't get to hurt someone because you're upset. If he slugged the teenager he purchased gas from on the way home, would that be okay? How about the person who brings him Domino's? The cleaning lady? I got news for him, cancer's upsetting, and it's only gonna get worse before it gets better. What's he going to do, smack around the folks who give him chemo? Kick the tech when he goes for a radiation treatment? I was told that my ovarian CA tumor markers were positive, and I had to wait 2 weeks until I could get in to see a gynecological oncologist surgeon, and then wait another week until they could work me into the surgery schedule. So I spent three weeks wondering if I was going to be alive in 6 months, with my lovely insurance telling me all about what they wouldn't do, wouldn't pay for, etc. I didn't hit anyone. My dad didn't hit anyone when he was told he had cancer. Neither did my mom, my sister, my grandmothers (both of them), and assorted uncles, aunts and cousins. The tumor markers happened to be false positives, by the way, but I didn't know that at the time.

3) Nursing "culture" seems to be endlessly forgiving of patient aggression, yet we are aggressive with each other. We "pet up" as my grandma would say, people exhibiting outrageously bad behavior, yet run to the boss if someone has garlic breath. I mean, ***** Can we get some perspective?

finally...that same person wouldn't have dreamed of hitting someone he saw as an authority figure who's attack would have consequences. We need mandatory, federal law that says the physical attack of a nurse by someone who is not insane results in arrest. Or we need to be able to defend ourselves without worrying about losing our jobs and licenses.

Crawling down off my soap box, excuse the bubbles...

mtdnk · Sep 4, 2011

I seriously doubt that I would resort to assault regardless of what I was told. I wonder why it is that nurses would even question holding an individual accountable for criminal behavior. Think a cop would think twice? A layperson?

~Mi Vida Loca~RN, ASN, RN · Sep 4, 2011

It would depend on the situation. Like others have said, if this person was always mean, if they were in shock and so on. Many factors I would consider before making my decision.

raven23 · Sep 4, 2011

What if this is a parent who has just been told by a police officer that his/her child was murdered, and the parent lashes out. It's not their normal behavior. It's up to the cop to decide if charges are going to be pressed. Take illness out of it for just a second. (and I do agree people need to be held accountable- but what jury is going to convict- and what more can you take from the person?). The exigent circumstances are overwhelming. Is it right they slugged the cop? Of course not. Are they acting within their normal behavior? How could they? Their judgment and reactions would be overridden by grief
I was in complete disbelief reading the comments on the abuse that nurse have endured on job. What is even more sad is that a nurse is actually trying to justify such detestable behavior. in your opinion a criminal act can be justified if your having a bad day?!? Utterly ridiculous. that's like saying if you've lost your job and can't pay your bills its fine and dandy to go rob someone. I'm baffled by your logic. thousands of people everyday loose loved ones or are diagnosed with terminal illness do they go out and harm someone because their distraught?!? No! Why should nurses have to tolerate that!! We don't! If a patient assaults you you have every right to press charges and you absolutely should. If the facility that you work for threatens you not to the you may have grounds to bring civil liability against them. The above poster might be fine with being a pt punching bag. it's about knowing your self worth and demanding respect. I'm glad newyork enacted that law!

xtxrn, ASN, RN · Sep 4, 2011

What if this is a parent who has just been told by a police officer that his/her child was murdered, and the parent lashes out. It's not their normal behavior. It's up to the cop to decide if charges are going to be pressed. Take illness out of it for just a second. (and I do agree people need to be held accountable- but what jury is going to convict- and what more can you take from the person?). The exigent circumstances are overwhelming. Is it right they slugged the cop? Of course not. Are they acting within their normal behavior? How could they? Their judgment and reactions would be overridden by grief
I was in complete disbelief reading the comments on the abuse that nurse have endured on job. What is even more sad is that a nurse is actually trying to justify such detestable behavior. in your opinion a criminal act can be justified if your having a bad day?!? Utterly ridiculous. that's like saying if you've lost your job and can't pay your bills its fine and dandy to go rob someone. I'm baffled by your logic. thousands of people everyday loose loved ones or are diagnosed with terminal illness do they go out and harm someone because their distraught?!? No! Why should nurses have to tolerate that!! We don't! If a patient assaults you you have every right to press charges and you absolutely should. If the facility that you work for threatens you not to the you may have grounds to bring civil liability against them. The above poster might be fine with being a pt punching bag. it's about knowing your self worth and demanding respect. I'm glad newyork enacted that law!
Fine . Press charges :)

Roy Fokker, BSN, RN · Sep 4, 2011

Fine . Press charges :)

Ahhh, so the question isn't as much "should charges be filed" but rather "will any jury convict"??

- Roy

xtxrn, ASN, RN · Sep 4, 2011

Ahhh, so the question isn't as much "should charges be filed" but rather "will any jury convict"??
- Roy

YES!!! You get it!! And the reply I posted re: taking illness out of it spoke to exigent circumstances- what is going to be the outcome- what good is prosecution with no conviction? I never defended violence. I asked what the point was in the case in the OP. NOT about jackwagons , serial criminals, or what have you. There is a difference with the intent. But I'm sure the lack of shades of gray will jump on this also. W/E.