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Nurse to Nurse Bullying

Nurses   (20,602 Views | 87 Replies)
by NewScaredRN NewScaredRN (New) New

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You are reading page 5 of Nurse to Nurse Bullying. If you want to start from the beginning Go to First Page.

NocturneRN has 30 years experience and specializes in ER, cardiac, addictions.

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Hmmmmm, interesting.

Not sure how I feel about a non-nurse posting on a nursing forum in order to tell nurses how to be nurses.

She's a professional educator, who most likely has experience being a patient and a hospital visitor. She's just pointing out (as any teacher would) that anything that gets in the way of educating the new nurse is likely to have an adverse effect on longterm nursing quality.

Unfortunately, her tone was somewhat arrogant, which can be off-putting (as she'll find out if and when she starts nursing school), but the point she was making was reasonable enough.

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14 Posts; 305 Profile Views

I'm speaking from a different point of view. Most folks that I have known complain about the fear of going into the hospital and not coming out due to the stereotype of poor care and incompetence...but yea...we can also say "testing" and "being given the run around" all of which makes for a worse situation

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No one is telling you as in Nurses how to be nurses...I in particular am telling my side from a patient point of view...and if saying educating nurses is seen as somehow arrogant, rude, telling-me-how-to-be-a-nurse...then you my dear are apart of the problem and are upholding the status quo....I do not apologize for saying that nursing should be about educating and caring...oops! I said something wrong?! Well thank you for proving my point for me....

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Soooo being passionate about preceptors treating nurses with respect is "arrogant" and "off-putting" OMG thanks for that...LOL! I guess I'll be put in my place when I get to nursing school with all that respect mallarky...who do I think I am? Well they'll show her! Wow! I hope this isn't how all nurses feel b/c if so my point was proven for me...I do not apologize for saying that preceptors need to treat new nurses with respect, and that PATIENTS SHOULD ALWAYS COME FIRST. If that's being arrogant...and tellin' somebody how to do their job...then your jobs need to find new nurses with a better patient centered attitude...

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Jensmom7 has 36 years experience as a BSN, RN and specializes in Hospice.

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No one is telling you as in Nurses how to be nurses...I in particular am telling my side from a patient point of view...and if saying educating nurses is seen as somehow arrogant, rude, telling-me-how-to-be-a-nurse...then you my dear are apart of the problem and are upholding the status quo....I do not apologize for saying that nursing should be about educating and caring...oops! I said something wrong?! Well thank you for proving my point for me....

Talking about educating nurses isn't what's arrogant about your post.

It's the fact that this is a Nursing forum, and you are not a Nurse. Your tone comes across as arrogant and condescending (I'm not anyone's dear, thank you).

Yes, you have an opinion. Unfortunately, when you don't have anything in common with the group you're talking to, it probably isn't going to be received well by all the members.

Getting snarky like you did in this reply isn't going to win you any followers. People are going to disagree with you, especially the people who actually do the job you're criticizing.

Taking your ball and going home because you didn't get the approving response you expected just lessens the chance that anyone here will be willing to ever pay attention to anything else you say.

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"I'm not anyone's dear" you got that right!...and you don't have to be a nurse to comment on healthcare that is a myopic view...I'm not here to get followers...I don't care...I don't care if you agree with my opinion or not...I am expressing my opinion and if there is a group of folks who want to go on attack then like my grand-daddy used to say "a hit dog will holla' " If you are someone who treats people with respect...(LOL!) then I would suspect that your comments would be "yes..." and "I understand your concerns as someone who want to go to the nursing profession and are trying to learn about the profession" instead it's met with "you ain't one uh' us!!" and "We gonna' make you take ur' ball and run off da' playground" LOL! please spare me...I feel for that young woman who posted on this topic originally b/c it would seem that you all don't even respect those who are nurses which why I was prompted to write a response in the first place...to come to the defense of someone who was a nurse, who was brave enough to share her experience, and then was berated through vehement objections...I've taught in the hood and have seen it all... so people coming for me do not scare me...

Edited by Miel Noir

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Miel, your opinion is valid but your expressing of it does put us on the defensive. I'd like to say I understand the point you make, but it is wrapped in so much sarcasm and hyperbole that it's hard to cut through.

I'm sure that if I said if all teachers thought it was their job to decide who gets put on what medicine and 504 plans then dang for the poor children you might have a problem with it. It is the teachers job to identify those of their students who display behavior warranting further inspection, of course. But I am not a teacher.

I am a nurse and a parent. I've been a nursing student and a preceptee. I know what my roles are and I relish them. I also recognize when a problematic preceptee is reporting sour grapes.

So. I hope when you are on this side of the equation you can better understand our perspective. I wish no ill will to you, I have no maliciousness toward you.

I truly hope you find your student nurse experience fulfilling, enlightening, and that you rise to the challenges it presents.

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roser13 has 17 years experience as a ASN, RN and specializes in Med/Surg, Ortho, ASC.

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"I'm not anyone's dear" you got that right!...and you don't have to be a nurse to comment on healthcare that is a myopic view...I'm not here to get followers...I don't care...I don't care if you agree with my opinion or not...I am expressing my opinion and if there is a group of folks who want to go on attack then like my grand-daddy used to say "a hit dog will holla' " If you are someone who treats people with respect...(LOL!) then I would suspect that your comments would be "yes..." and "I understand your concerns as someone who want to go to the nursing profession and are trying to learn about the profession" instead it's met with "you ain't one uh' us!!" and "We gonna' make you take ur' ball and run off da' playground" LOL! please spare me...I feel for that young woman who posted on this topic originally b/c it would seem that you all don't even respect those who are nurses which why I was prompted to write a response in the first place...to come to the defense of someone who was a nurse, who was brave enough to share her experience, and then was berated through vehement objections...I've taught in the hood and have seen it all... so people coming for me do not scare me...

Perhaps there's a teacher's online forum that would be a better fit for you? Surely your critiques would be better received by those in the same profession since you would have the education & background from which to speak?

Since you cannot see the arrogance involved in a non-nurse chastising nurses (on an online nursing forum, no less), I wonder if changing your profession to nursing is truly a good idea. Being convinced before your first day of nursing school that you already "know" how nurses should, well, be nurses, I'm not sure that you would be an appropriate candidate.

Edited by roser13

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chevyv has 20 years experience as a BSN, RN and specializes in Gero Psych, Ortho Rebab, LTC, Psych.

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Soooo being passionate about preceptors treating nurses with respect is "arrogant" and "off-putting" OMG thanks for that...LOL! I guess I'll be put in my place when I get to nursing school with all that respect mallarky...who do I think I am? Well they'll show her! Wow! I hope this isn't how all nurses feel b/c if so my point was proven for me...I do not apologize for saying that preceptors need to treat new nurses with respect, and that PATIENTS SHOULD ALWAYS COME FIRST. If that's being arrogant...and tellin' somebody how to do their job...then your jobs need to find new nurses with a better patient centered attitude...

No offense to you, but all nurses know that our pts come first. You speak as though you know so much. You do come off as arrogant because you don't truly know what it's like to be a nurse in the trenches. Learning the balance of prioritizing your pt load and acuity is difficult. A pt having to wait for water or whatever because you have a pt crashing down the hall is sometimes the way it is. You really can't go in to the pts room and tell them your short staffed or someone was crashing. Many mangers of magnet facilities will not allow you to do anything but apologize. This leads pts to think nurses are not making pts a priority.

On top of the everyday craziness that is nursing, you have to balance precepting. Safety is huge! There are so many avenues for errors that can harm the pt.

Most of us 'get it', but you really have no idea yet.....

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cardiacfreak is a ADN and specializes in Hospice.

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"I'm not anyone's dear" you got that right!...and you don't have to be a nurse to comment on healthcare that is a myopic view...I'm not here to get followers...I don't care...I don't care if you agree with my opinion or not...I am expressing my opinion and if there is a group of folks who want to go on attack then like my grand-daddy used to say "a hit dog will holla' " If you are someone who treats people with respect...(LOL!) then I would suspect that your comments would be "yes..." and "I understand your concerns as someone who want to go to the nursing profession and are trying to learn about the profession" instead it's met with "you ain't one uh' us!!" and "We gonna' make you take ur' ball and run off da' playground" LOL! please spare me...I feel for that young woman who posted on this topic originally b/c it would seem that you all don't even respect those who are nurses which why I was prompted to write a response in the first place...to come to the defense of someone who was a nurse, who was brave enough to share her experience, and then was berated through vehement objections...I've taught in the hood and have seen it all... so people coming for me do not scare me...

I'm not sure what the "hood" has to do with anything, but you may want to go back and reread your posts. They do come across very condescending. My perception of your posts is that you appear to be a little " bully" too.

I am not trying to antagonize or make you more upset, just adding my thoughts, since this is a public forum.

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OrganizedChaos has 10 years experience as a LVN and specializes in M/S, LTC, Corrections, PDN & drug rehab.

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Soooo being passionate about preceptors treating nurses with respect is "arrogant" and "off-putting" OMG thanks for that...LOL! I guess I'll be put in my place when I get to nursing school with all that respect mallarky...who do I think I am? Well they'll show her! Wow! I hope this isn't how all nurses feel b/c if so my point was proven for me...I do not apologize for saying that preceptors need to treat new nurses with respect, and that PATIENTS SHOULD ALWAYS COME FIRST. If that's being arrogant...and tellin' somebody how to do their job...then your jobs need to find new nurses with a better patient centered attitude...

What is with the yelling & the tone in all of your posts?

What I bolded is what I'm talking about.

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While I was filling up the cup with water here came the preceptor. Instantly she launched into me about why I was getting water. When I tried to explain the only thing I was able to get out was how else am I going to insert the tube” and suddenly I was being berated in the middle of the hallway. Dry swallow had to have been repeated 6-10 times,

She's right. I've put down a LOT of NG tubes in unconscious people, and they sure as hell aren't giving me a cooperative swallow. NPO is NPO whether there's something already down there or not. She might not have had the patience to explain it to you as much as you might have desired, and I can't tell how hard you tried to give your rationale (more than once and I probably would have become a bit testy myself), but she was correct in stopping you from giving that patient water to drink. (PS: Swallowing water is not a guarantee of avoiding the trachea, either, even if sometimes helpful in some --not all-- patients.)

Attitude counts for a lot- if one goes in expected "NETY", one will quite likely find it. People look for evidence that supports preconceived notions, not contradicts them.

Certainly true. As a matter of record, this is the definition of bullying from the experts, the Workplace Bullying Institute:

[h=1]The WBI Definition of Workplace Bullying[/h]

Workplace Bullying is repeated, health-harming mistreatment of one or more persons (the targets) by one or more perpetrators. It isabusive conduct that is :

  • Threatening, humiliating, or intimidating, or
  • Work interference — sabotage — which prevents work from getting done, or
  • Verbal abuse

Further,

Dan Olweus, creator of the Olweus Bullying Prevention Program, defines bullying in his book,Bullying at School: What We Know and What We Can Do:

"A person is bullied when he or she is exposed, repeatedly and over time, to negative actions on the part of one or more other persons, and
he or she has difficulty defending himself or herself.
"

This definition includes three important components:

1. Bullying is aggressive behavior that involves unwanted, negative actions.

2. Bullying involves a pattern of behavior repeated over time.

3. Bullying involves an imbalance of power or strength.

I don't see threats, I don't see humiliation, I don't see physical violence or threats of it, and I don't see work sabotage. I see someone who is rude and I see you making a small attempt to stand up for yourself-- but did you think that one, "That's enough! Be nice! Be nice!"was going to fix this person, bippity-boppity-boo? That's not defending yourself, and it's not a functional response to someone who is being rude unless said with a big disarming smile. "Difficulty defending yourself" doesn't cover, "I didn't speak up like a grown-up."

 

I do see a young nurse who thought she had a good rationale for doing something that was contraindicated and took offense when corrected. I see an older nurse who did, in fact, come to try the IV stick for you when you said you would be happy to try and stick a vein if she could find one, and you don't mention further "abuse" related to this anecdote. I see your account of your peers saying you're doing a good job of "fake it til you make it" regarding the thickening skin thing.

 

All in all (and I know you're gonna hate this), I'd like you to consider this in the calm light of day in a week or so: Why is it that you think "you would do well to have thicker skin" is bad advice, and why do you think so many experienced people recommend it to a new grad?

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