Nurse to Nurse Bullying

Nurses General Nursing

Published

As a student nurse you spend nearly the entire time in school telling yourself to make it through this last hurdle, dig deep and delve down because once you graduate the pain lessens. You fumble through the most stressful two years of your life between feeling like a walking idiot, to feeling like you can take on the world and solve the world's largest medical mysteries. The last semester comes and you pat yourself on the back for making it to the end. You tell yourself that the next year will be hard with dealing with learning the skill sets of a nurse, understanding time management, and learning prioritization. What you don't understand at that time, is that one of the hardest contentions you will have to deal with is an unspoken problem in the world's most ethical profession; nurse to nurse bullying.

No one wants to admit it is happening on their unit, no one wants to admit it is happening to them, and no one wants to admit there is not really an answer to this problem, that makes it solvable. Even as an author that wants to buck against the system and yell NO I will DEFEND these nurses!” I don't. Even when it is happening to me. Why? I am scared of rocking the boat, most of the behavior is actually encouraged by the leadership of my unit, and they believe it gives new nurses thicker skin”. How do I know they feel this way? They told me so.

When I have tried to speak up before I was told, don't take it personal, have thicker skin, and that my nurse preceptor just says it like it is. I like to think of myself as a pretty tough person. I usually do have pretty thick skin, yet as a new nurse it does make me doubt myself very deeply. What, you may be asking as a reader, am I defining nurse to nurse bullying as? The easy answer is belittling, and talking badly about the new nurse with other nurses. However, I do understand examples are needed to get a true understanding.

A little background: I was told prior to be assigned this preceptor that she is tough, cuts it straight but will also be able to build me into a great nurse. She was all those things and a lot more. She would disappear many times leaving me on my own to figure many things out. If I was ever brave enough to ask something I got eye rolls and a put-out answer (yet one of the most repeatable pieces of advice a new nurse gets is to ask questions and not to be afraid to ask for help!), if I needed her to help me with procedures this is where she would get outright mean! An important aspect to remember throughout this is that she had NO patients or 1-2 MAX just so she could help train me. I am not a complainer, I am an older student so I have world experience behind me as well. I am not meek usually and for the most part I have a mouth that I will certainly use to advocate for my patient but here I was not the one that was trained but instead the one being trained.

Example 1: A patient needed an NG tube. This patient had been eating and drinking all day. The doctor had just changed the patient's status to NPO about an hour earlier. The patient was having an NG tube done to see if the edema the patient was experiencing was due to air, or something else. I was very excited to get another check off done and was up to 4 patients on my med-surg floor. I grabbed all my supplies (I had previously notified her of the procedure, got heaving breathing over my ASCOM and told FINE be right there”) and put them outside the room. Went back to find her and get my glass of water with a straw for the insertion. Here I did stop and tell myself the patient is NPO…but he just went NPO, has other fluids already in the stomach, and insertion without drinking the water could lead to the tube inserting into the lungs therefore it is wiser to use a bit of water. While I was filling up the cup with water here came the preceptor. Instantly she launched into me about why I was getting water. When I tried to explain the only thing I was able to get out was how else am I going to insert the tube” and suddenly I was being berated in the middle of the hallway. Dry swallow had to have been repeated 6-10 times, I kept trying to explain my thought process but was talked over (almost to a yell) and spoken down to. I felt like an idiot and like I had nearly killed my patient or something. I proceeded to mess up the entire day and go home bawling. It is important to note that I did speak up for myself here, I did at one point say that's enough! Be nice! Be nice!” but it never phased her or make her stop.

Example two: I admit I am not the best IV starter. I am not the worst but not the best either. I refuse to stick a patient however blindly. If I am going to stick them then I will either feel a vein or see one (DO NO HARM!). Why in the world would I state this, since it seems like common sense? Because it is important to this example. My patient had previously told me that the IV s/he had was placed by the rapid nurse due to how hard a stick s/he is. When that one lone IV was infiltrated I tried to find a vein. I couldn't even find one on the hand!! At this point I am up to 5 patients and have been on the unit about a 1 ½ months. I am still in training but nearing the end. I cringe as I pick up my ASCOM to notify my preceptor I need help. I know what is coming. I get told I better figure it out and hung up on when I try to ask for help to start the IV. I try really hard not to cry in front of my patient, and be a wuss. So I start at the wrist and work my way up to the armpit with no luck. I had tried before but I knew if I didn't at least try to stick one time I would hear about it. I didn't try though, my patient's comfort and safety came before my own feelings of not wanting to be belittled and yelled at. So I picked up that dreaded ASCOM again and this time I said if you can find a vein I'll be happy to stick it but I can't find even ONE!” This time my preceptor came after I got a fine”. When she couldn't find one either and tried over 6 times before saying the patient either needed a PICC or the rapid nurse, it was very hard for me to not look at her with a smug expression. Very hard!

In the middle of this awful experience I did ask my fellow trainees how they were doing. Their preceptors actually went with them to do everything (even med passes). They never were afraid to ask questions or for help and several times they had heard the way my preceptor talked to me and informed me they would be curled into a ball crying. They complimented my strength and claimed I looked so confident and independent on the floor. That was total fake it tell you make it” at work. When I tried to talk with my management they encouraged my preceptors behavior and then the very week that I decide ok it's time to speak up, they put those same trainees with her to toughen them up”. I am not joking, those exact words were used. My preceptor was being encouraged to toughen us up”. Other trainees have overheard the preceptors throughout the training process talk about us from how slow we are, to how stupid we are.

I have no recourse I can take. There is no avenue I can go to and report without making matters worse. I cannot quit because I am in a town that is monopolized by a very large hospital, and as a new graduate my options are so limited. I cannot go to my upper management for the same reason I cannot go to my immediate supervisor. The bullying or toughening as they call it, has been encouraged and this will only make it worse. So the only thing left to do is to vent, grind down and make the best of it but also make sure to NEVER be that nurse. To point out when I can safely do so what is going on, and when I finally get to claim to be a seasoned nurse or preceptor, make sure I intercede on that new graduates behalf. I can post my story on the internet so that new graduates read it and know they are not alone if this is happening to them. I can point it out to hopefully shame the preceptors that are doing this, even if it is privately. They became a nurse for a reason and hopefully that ability to care for their fellow human beings will reach out to their fellow nurses as well.

My advice from a new graduate to an old battle ax nurse. Remember that we too have a story, that you once were a new graduate and that tough love” really isn't the only way to get your point across. By no means does this imply that new graduates should be coddled or handled with kid gloves. No they should just be treated and spoken to in the same manner you would want to be spoken to and treated as. Most of all remember battle axes one day you may wake up with that nurse you treated like crap standing above you. Pray that she does not hold a grudge!

Specializes in ER, cardiac, addictions.
Hmmmmm, interesting.

Not sure how I feel about a non-nurse posting on a nursing forum in order to tell nurses how to be nurses.

She's a professional educator, who most likely has experience being a patient and a hospital visitor. She's just pointing out (as any teacher would) that anything that gets in the way of educating the new nurse is likely to have an adverse effect on longterm nursing quality.

Unfortunately, her tone was somewhat arrogant, which can be off-putting (as she'll find out if and when she starts nursing school), but the point she was making was reasonable enough.

I'm speaking from a different point of view. Most folks that I have known complain about the fear of going into the hospital and not coming out due to the stereotype of poor care and incompetence...but yea...we can also say "testing" and "being given the run around" all of which makes for a worse situation

No one is telling you as in Nurses how to be nurses...I in particular am telling my side from a patient point of view...and if saying educating nurses is seen as somehow arrogant, rude, telling-me-how-to-be-a-nurse...then you my dear are apart of the problem and are upholding the status quo....I do not apologize for saying that nursing should be about educating and caring...oops! I said something wrong?! Well thank you for proving my point for me....

Soooo being passionate about preceptors treating nurses with respect is "arrogant" and "off-putting" OMG thanks for that...LOL! I guess I'll be put in my place when I get to nursing school with all that respect mallarky...who do I think I am? Well they'll show her! Wow! I hope this isn't how all nurses feel b/c if so my point was proven for me...I do not apologize for saying that preceptors need to treat new nurses with respect, and that PATIENTS SHOULD ALWAYS COME FIRST. If that's being arrogant...and tellin' somebody how to do their job...then your jobs need to find new nurses with a better patient centered attitude...

Specializes in Hospice.
No one is telling you as in Nurses how to be nurses...I in particular am telling my side from a patient point of view...and if saying educating nurses is seen as somehow arrogant, rude, telling-me-how-to-be-a-nurse...then you my dear are apart of the problem and are upholding the status quo....I do not apologize for saying that nursing should be about educating and caring...oops! I said something wrong?! Well thank you for proving my point for me....

Talking about educating nurses isn't what's arrogant about your post.

It's the fact that this is a Nursing forum, and you are not a Nurse. Your tone comes across as arrogant and condescending (I'm not anyone's dear, thank you).

Yes, you have an opinion. Unfortunately, when you don't have anything in common with the group you're talking to, it probably isn't going to be received well by all the members.

Getting snarky like you did in this reply isn't going to win you any followers. People are going to disagree with you, especially the people who actually do the job you're criticizing.

Taking your ball and going home because you didn't get the approving response you expected just lessens the chance that anyone here will be willing to ever pay attention to anything else you say.

"I'm not anyone's dear" you got that right!...and you don't have to be a nurse to comment on healthcare that is a myopic view...I'm not here to get followers...I don't care...I don't care if you agree with my opinion or not...I am expressing my opinion and if there is a group of folks who want to go on attack then like my grand-daddy used to say "a hit dog will holla' " If you are someone who treats people with respect...(LOL!) then I would suspect that your comments would be "yes..." and "I understand your concerns as someone who want to go to the nursing profession and are trying to learn about the profession" instead it's met with "you ain't one uh' us!!" and "We gonna' make you take ur' ball and run off da' playground" LOL! please spare me...I feel for that young woman who posted on this topic originally b/c it would seem that you all don't even respect those who are nurses which why I was prompted to write a response in the first place...to come to the defense of someone who was a nurse, who was brave enough to share her experience, and then was berated through vehement objections...I've taught in the hood and have seen it all... so people coming for me do not scare me...

Specializes in Hospital medicine; NP precepting; staff education.

Miel, your opinion is valid but your expressing of it does put us on the defensive. I'd like to say I understand the point you make, but it is wrapped in so much sarcasm and hyperbole that it's hard to cut through.

I'm sure that if I said if all teachers thought it was their job to decide who gets put on what medicine and 504 plans then dang for the poor children you might have a problem with it. It is the teachers job to identify those of their students who display behavior warranting further inspection, of course. But I am not a teacher.

I am a nurse and a parent. I've been a nursing student and a preceptee. I know what my roles are and I relish them. I also recognize when a problematic preceptee is reporting sour grapes.

So. I hope when you are on this side of the equation you can better understand our perspective. I wish no ill will to you, I have no maliciousness toward you.

I truly hope you find your student nurse experience fulfilling, enlightening, and that you rise to the challenges it presents.

Specializes in Med/Surg, Ortho, ASC.
"I'm not anyone's dear" you got that right!...and you don't have to be a nurse to comment on healthcare that is a myopic view...I'm not here to get followers...I don't care...I don't care if you agree with my opinion or not...I am expressing my opinion and if there is a group of folks who want to go on attack then like my grand-daddy used to say "a hit dog will holla' " If you are someone who treats people with respect...(LOL!) then I would suspect that your comments would be "yes..." and "I understand your concerns as someone who want to go to the nursing profession and are trying to learn about the profession" instead it's met with "you ain't one uh' us!!" and "We gonna' make you take ur' ball and run off da' playground" LOL! please spare me...I feel for that young woman who posted on this topic originally b/c it would seem that you all don't even respect those who are nurses which why I was prompted to write a response in the first place...to come to the defense of someone who was a nurse, who was brave enough to share her experience, and then was berated through vehement objections...I've taught in the hood and have seen it all... so people coming for me do not scare me...

Perhaps there's a teacher's online forum that would be a better fit for you? Surely your critiques would be better received by those in the same profession since you would have the education & background from which to speak?

Since you cannot see the arrogance involved in a non-nurse chastising nurses (on an online nursing forum, no less), I wonder if changing your profession to nursing is truly a good idea. Being convinced before your first day of nursing school that you already "know" how nurses should, well, be nurses, I'm not sure that you would be an appropriate candidate.

Specializes in Acute Mental Health.
Soooo being passionate about preceptors treating nurses with respect is "arrogant" and "off-putting" OMG thanks for that...LOL! I guess I'll be put in my place when I get to nursing school with all that respect mallarky...who do I think I am? Well they'll show her! Wow! I hope this isn't how all nurses feel b/c if so my point was proven for me...I do not apologize for saying that preceptors need to treat new nurses with respect, and that PATIENTS SHOULD ALWAYS COME FIRST. If that's being arrogant...and tellin' somebody how to do their job...then your jobs need to find new nurses with a better patient centered attitude...

No offense to you, but all nurses know that our pts come first. You speak as though you know so much. You do come off as arrogant because you don't truly know what it's like to be a nurse in the trenches. Learning the balance of prioritizing your pt load and acuity is difficult. A pt having to wait for water or whatever because you have a pt crashing down the hall is sometimes the way it is. You really can't go in to the pts room and tell them your short staffed or someone was crashing. Many mangers of magnet facilities will not allow you to do anything but apologize. This leads pts to think nurses are not making pts a priority.

On top of the everyday craziness that is nursing, you have to balance precepting. Safety is huge! There are so many avenues for errors that can harm the pt.

Most of us 'get it', but you really have no idea yet.....

Specializes in Hospice.
"I'm not anyone's dear" you got that right!...and you don't have to be a nurse to comment on healthcare that is a myopic view...I'm not here to get followers...I don't care...I don't care if you agree with my opinion or not...I am expressing my opinion and if there is a group of folks who want to go on attack then like my grand-daddy used to say "a hit dog will holla' " If you are someone who treats people with respect...(LOL!) then I would suspect that your comments would be "yes..." and "I understand your concerns as someone who want to go to the nursing profession and are trying to learn about the profession" instead it's met with "you ain't one uh' us!!" and "We gonna' make you take ur' ball and run off da' playground" LOL! please spare me...I feel for that young woman who posted on this topic originally b/c it would seem that you all don't even respect those who are nurses which why I was prompted to write a response in the first place...to come to the defense of someone who was a nurse, who was brave enough to share her experience, and then was berated through vehement objections...I've taught in the hood and have seen it all... so people coming for me do not scare me...

I'm not sure what the "hood" has to do with anything, but you may want to go back and reread your posts. They do come across very condescending. My perception of your posts is that you appear to be a little " bully" too.

I am not trying to antagonize or make you more upset, just adding my thoughts, since this is a public forum.

Specializes in M/S, LTC, Corrections, PDN & drug rehab.
Soooo being passionate about preceptors treating nurses with respect is "arrogant" and "off-putting" OMG thanks for that...LOL! I guess I'll be put in my place when I get to nursing school with all that respect mallarky...who do I think I am? Well they'll show her! Wow! I hope this isn't how all nurses feel b/c if so my point was proven for me...I do not apologize for saying that preceptors need to treat new nurses with respect, and that PATIENTS SHOULD ALWAYS COME FIRST. If that's being arrogant...and tellin' somebody how to do their job...then your jobs need to find new nurses with a better patient centered attitude...

What is with the yelling & the tone in all of your posts?

What I bolded is what I'm talking about.

While I was filling up the cup with water here came the preceptor. Instantly she launched into me about why I was getting water. When I tried to explain the only thing I was able to get out was how else am I going to insert the tube” and suddenly I was being berated in the middle of the hallway. Dry swallow had to have been repeated 6-10 times,

She's right. I've put down a LOT of NG tubes in unconscious people, and they sure as hell aren't giving me a cooperative swallow. NPO is NPO whether there's something already down there or not. She might not have had the patience to explain it to you as much as you might have desired, and I can't tell how hard you tried to give your rationale (more than once and I probably would have become a bit testy myself), but she was correct in stopping you from giving that patient water to drink. (PS: Swallowing water is not a guarantee of avoiding the trachea, either, even if sometimes helpful in some --not all-- patients.)

Attitude counts for a lot- if one goes in expected "NETY", one will quite likely find it. People look for evidence that supports preconceived notions, not contradicts them.

Certainly true. As a matter of record, this is the definition of bullying from the experts, the Workplace Bullying Institute:

[h=1]The WBI Definition of Workplace Bullying[/h]

Workplace Bullying is repeated, health-harming mistreatment of one or more persons (the targets) by one or more perpetrators. It isabusive conduct that is :

  • Threatening, humiliating, or intimidating, or
  • Work interference — sabotage — which prevents work from getting done, or
  • Verbal abuse

Further,

Dan Olweus, creator of the Olweus Bullying Prevention Program, defines bullying in his book,Bullying at School: What We Know and What We Can Do:

"A person is bullied when he or she is exposed, repeatedly and over time, to negative actions on the part of one or more other persons, and
he or she has difficulty defending himself or herself.
"

This definition includes three important components:

1. Bullying is aggressive behavior that involves unwanted, negative actions.

2. Bullying involves a pattern of behavior repeated over time.

3. Bullying involves an imbalance of power or strength.

I don't see threats, I don't see humiliation, I don't see physical violence or threats of it, and I don't see work sabotage. I see someone who is rude and I see you making a small attempt to stand up for yourself-- but did you think that one, "That's enough! Be nice! Be nice!"was going to fix this person, bippity-boppity-boo? That's not defending yourself, and it's not a functional response to someone who is being rude unless said with a big disarming smile. "Difficulty defending yourself" doesn't cover, "I didn't speak up like a grown-up."

I do see a young nurse who thought she had a good rationale for doing something that was contraindicated and took offense when corrected. I see an older nurse who did, in fact, come to try the IV stick for you when you said you would be happy to try and stick a vein if she could find one, and you don't mention further "abuse" related to this anecdote. I see your account of your peers saying you're doing a good job of "fake it til you make it" regarding the thickening skin thing.

All in all (and I know you're gonna hate this), I'd like you to consider this in the calm light of day in a week or so: Why is it that you think "you would do well to have thicker skin" is bad advice, and why do you think so many experienced people recommend it to a new grad?

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