Why are nurses such back-stabbers?

Tweety, BSN, RN · Dec 16, 2006

Not necessarily.
For instance, I recently encountered one witch of an RN that follows my shift, who either snubs people or verbally attacks out of the blue.
There are some really dysfunctional people out there and they are not all on the other side of the bed.

I definately agree with with you. There are some witch nurses out there. But why brand the entire profession based on them.

I can't speak for Ruby but a couple of the people in this thread said things like "I made an off the cuff remark and then............"..........or "I said something I shouldn't have out of anger and then............".

This might be what this poster is talking about in that sometimes we reep what we sow. If I'm being unprofessional, why should I be upset if others are unprofessional in return? Even if my unprofessionalism wasn't as bad as the response and the response was blown out of proproration - I still instigated it.

But yes, there are people that you approach with kindness and professionalism and still are catty. But that's their problem, not a problem with females and nurses in general don't you think?

Tweety, BSN, RN · Dec 16, 2006

People--all people, not just nurses--need to realize that they talk too darned much about things and people that are not their business, and IMO, that's the root of the problem. Too many people simply don't have the mind or the manners to just shut up if they cannot say anything nice.

I agree, we as a society have gotten too nosy and too gossipy. Most people talk about other people. Look at the news, the magazine stands, listen to the conversations around you in the grocery store. People are complaining, gossiping about all sorts of things.

Sometimes though we have to take another picture. There are moments when my coworkers are talking about someone - happened yesterday. A nurse needed help and a co-worker looked at her and walked away. I jumped up to help the nurse in need, but the character assination the coworkers did of the lazy one was livid. Then it passed and a lot of teamwork and support that usually is there went on. So looking at the big picture I'm not going to post on a bulletin board - my coworkers are so catty......because they had a moment in time out of the 12 hour day that was definately wrong. Nor am I going to complain about the lazy nurse. She's a witch for sure and I dislike her immensely right now, but I can't let her negativity and laziness cloud my vision of nursing.

I appreciate that you included others in this, and are not labeling it a nursing or female problem. I'm really bothered by the "nurses are catty because it's a female dominated profession" thingie.

I'll get off my soapbox too.

salseranurse · Dec 16, 2006

Agree with nurse hobit, it's kinda sad but many nurses suffer from low self esteem and therefore to boost there own moral they feel the need to put down there coworkers including management. No one is immune to it. Best thing to do is to encourage them to keep things on a professional level. If they are not happy with the way someone is handling things at work they should approach them as a concerned colleague. Afterall there are'nt enough of us in the profession and we truly wouldn't want to maliciously cause one of our peers to lose their license. No one wants to constantly be on their guard at work either. That makes for a very hostile environment and does not foster team work. Be the bigger person and walk away whe the backbiting begins. :trout:

salseranurse · Dec 16, 2006

Agree with nurse hobit, it's kinda sad but many nurses suffer from low self esteem and therefore to boost there own moral they feel the need to put down there coworkers including management. No one is immune to it. Best thing to do is to encourage them to keep things on a professional level. If they are not happy with the way someone is handling things at work they should approach them as a concerned colleague. Afterall there are'nt enough of us in the profession and we truly wouldn't want to maliciously cause one of our peers to lose their license. No one wants to constantly be on their guard at work either. That makes for a very hostile environment and does not foster team work. Be the bigger person and walk away whe the backbiting begins. :trout:

If they talk to you about other people, they'll talk about you to other people.

imenid37 · Dec 16, 2006

I think men can be gossipy too, but I think we women are socialized to accept it more. For some women, gossiping is like a guilty pleasure. It is almost joked about. The problem is that it can go too far and then someone gets hurt. Guys, that I have known, mostly don't care about some of the same petty stuff women do. They care about other petty stuff, like sports (sorry I am not a fan) which isn't so detrimental to others. I can think of a few glaring male exceptions I have known over the years. For example, the worst gossip and most petty person I worked w/ was a male doctor. It may just be that I have worked w/ many, many more women than men. I get sick of those who try to work their way up the food chain by tearing others down or falsely inflating their own importance. I don't really get the competion thing either. As staff nurses, everyone is pretty equal, etc., in terms of salary and what they are supposed to do. Time and again, I have seen people schmoozing the doctors or kissing management's behind and they really are getting nothing tangible from that. I blame management response to pettiness. They tend to act on some very trivial situations which, in the big picture, are very unimportant. I think this just perpetuates the cattiness.

imenid37 · Dec 16, 2006

If they talk to you about other people, they'll talk about you to other people.

Never a truer phrase spoken!

SharonH, RN · Dec 16, 2006

i learned years ago that you elicit the responses you get.

i find it truly saddening and disappointing that nursing, predominately a female profession harbors such negative stereotypes against women. it truly amazes me how few of our members seem to actually like nurses, or to like women. it is small wonder that many nurses are having negative experiences with their co-workers. it seems that few nrses really like their co-workers, their profession or their gender. how sad that someone would have a negative experience with a co-worker (which that person may or may not have contributed to with an "off the cuff remark") and then generalize against an entire gender and most of a profession!

i agree 100% with ruby vee here as well as earlier comments made by deb(smiling blue eyes). this thread makes me sad. very sad. the op is having some problems at work and she takes the actions of a few and generalizes them to an entire gender and a profession and immediately receives a chorus of amens from dozens of people, presumably adults, mostly women. thus you're propagating the very behavior you're condemning.

what's worse, the op never gave us the details of what these "tattletales" told about. perhaps her co-workers had genuine concerns about something she did and felt legally and/or morally obligated to take it to a higher authority versus merely having a pow-wow with her. i have found after 16+ years in this business that what is one person's no big deal is actually a life-threatening mistake to another person.

we've all had negative experiences with co-workers. this does not justify negatively labeling an entire profession or gender just as it would not be acceptable if she had asked why were "asians" or "blacks" or "mormons" or "southerners" or "short people" such backstabbers.

auntmimi57 · Dec 16, 2006

I have resigned last night due to unbelievable crap quite similar. I'm an LPN night shift pt. time got too freindly w/my workers- and as a poster said just go in do your work..well they are right.

I'm in such awe of how unfair it is to see people stay while the bad apples - very bad ones remain.

My heart goes out to you.

I am so sad that you can be too nice to people onlyto get screwed in the end.

Oh well..it is a learning thing I have learned yet once more not to trust.

this was my last try at Nursing in a long term type setting b/c of bull and Nursing in general.

I should be thrilled and as I do not have to work in this highly dysfunctional setting a revolving door of nurses, cna's coming going

Just a tad sore today but I will get over it and will take this learning experince with me in all areas of life.

If my spelling is bad sorry but I was awake nealrly the entire night :/

MsBruiser · Dec 16, 2006

I agree 100% with Ruby Vee here as well as earlier comments made by Deb(Smiling Blue Eyes). This thread makes me sad. Very sad. The OP is having some problems at work and she takes the actions of a few and generalizes them to an entire gender and a profession and immediately receives a chorus of amens from dozens of people, presumably adults, mostly women. Thus you're propagating the very behavior you're condemning.
What's worse, the OP never gave us the details of what these "tattletales" told about. Perhaps her co-workers had genuine concerns about something she did and felt legally and/or morally obligated to take it to a higher authority versus merely having a pow-wow with her. I have found after 16+ years in this business that what is one person's no big deal is actually a life-threatening mistake to another person.
We've all had negative experiences with co-workers. This does not justify negatively labeling an entire profession or gender just as it would not be acceptable if she had asked why were "Asians" or "Blacks" or "Mormons" or "Southerners" or "short people" such backstabbers.

I have to disagree. I don't like stereotyping as much as the next person. But there are certainly gender-related personality traits that permeate the profession. That is a fact - and it shouldn't be ignored. As a guy in a nursing program - read my other post where I establish my feminist credentials - I'm appalled at a lot of the behavior I witness among my fellow classmates. I am getting tired of the weekly meltdowns and public tears. The public "culling from the herd" of the people they don't like. The outright cruelty for those deemed "not part of the group." What many of the guys just blow-off, the women will escalate to the nth degree of drama. I find it down-right sad that half of my extern job interview questions related on sittuations having to deal with dealing with petty behavior from my co-workers. The directors stated "we need more men" not because I can lift more, won't get pregnant, and have fewer childcare issues - they said it because I responded "My personal life is my personal life - I'm not here to make friends but to do a job - I ignore people I don't like."

I will sum this up another way. A huge part of my nursing curriculum seems to focus on "professionalism". WHAT A LOAD OF CRAP!!!!!! Why should professionalism have to be taught? Who ever heard of an academic program teaching professionalism (I already have a Masters degree - never had to learn "professionalism")? Do you think medical schools teach "professionalism"? In fact, do you think medical students turn their post-conference sessions into teary confessionals like so many of ours seem to be? Educated women in other professions are appalled when I tell them of that aspect of my curriculum, and some of the behavior I witness on a consistent basis.

There are many positive aspects of nursing and I'm tickled pink I've chosen this career change. But attributing gender differences to mere stereotyping ignores some hard realities our profession faces. We must "clean up our act" if we are to truly be seen through a lens of respect by others. A doctor will NEVER criticize another in public...I see RNs do this all of the time. They have learned to protect and support one another. :nono:

SmilingBluEyes · Dec 16, 2006

Hi to all who have contributed to this topic --
Here's the thing; having talked this over with a psychologist, it was put to me this way: IF you, as a conscientious, ethical, worker do all you can in a given day to provide the best possible care within the scope of your responsibilities, then you set an example of doing the right thing. Often, others notice that you are doing what they themselves are not, whether that includes taking an extra few seconds to calm someone in pain, or listen to a concerned family member, it only highlights to the observing co-worker the things they realize they should also be doing. Perhaps they've remarked to you that 'patient so-and-so is very difficult' but then see said patient respond warmly to you because of your extra effort and little bit of attention. That sets up some uncomfortable feelings in the co-worker; it requires reassessment of their own skills and abilities.
Face it, none of us like to look in the mirror and see warts. So what is easier? Instead of making changes internally, striking out by way of high-school type behavior is a tried and true defense mechanism that frankly, quite a few people resort to. It isn't an answer, it isn't mature, and it usually sets up an uncomfortable environment for all involved; sometimes (in the case of a LTC setting) even patients get involved in these mini-dramas. This is only an explanation as to the why of it; how to 'change' how nurses and other health-care professions treat each other belongs to each and every one, it comes from within. Recognizing that others may feel threatened by someone modeling behavior in a higher standard goes a long way to diffusing a sense of "What's their problem?".
Their 'problem' is just that; THEIR problem. So what if the perception is that a nurse is 'snooty' because they refuse to associate with juvenile behavior? Again, it only holds a mirror up to their own inadequecies. This applies to all careers, male and female. It may feel like it's just in nursing, but as others have already attested, it's everywhere. Listen to the lyrics in a song called "High school never ends" by a group called Bowling for Soup. It's spot on.
Life is what you make of it. Cheers!
:balloons:

IN other words, do unto others. YES this works, most of the time!!! AMEN AND AMEN. If you are in a place that is toxic, like I said, it behooves you to get out. You alone cannot, nor should you try, to change, singlehandedly, a toxic environment.

Either way, "if it's to be, it is up to me" applies. You in the end, have to take care of you. Complaining and generalizing change nothing. Either model the behavior you want to see, or if that fails, move on.

jimthorp · Dec 16, 2006

I've been a nurse for 15 months now. I am one of three male nurses in my facility. I don't work side by side with them so my perspective is somewhat skewed. From the day I walked onto my floor for my PPD test I knew I would fit in with the two other full-time nurses, both female. I don't remember the conversation exactly but basically it was something to the affect that you can start "busting my nuts" on . That interaction set the stage for what has been a great work environment with these two nurses.

The then HR person practically offered me the job walking in for the interview and was very excited when I later accepted the position. HR was hoping I would have a calming affect on other staff and I think have.

During my first 8 months or so I was floated regularly (low man on totem pole) to other floors. Being a new nurse out of school is stressful enough without being floated around to floors you are unfamiliar with. I have observed the "cattyness" of other females (nurses and CNA's) in the way they treat each other. I seem to be immune to this and I guess it's because I am, as one poster suggested, "a clueless guy" or maybe its the way I carry myself or my calm nature or the way I treat others, I don't know. Lord only knows what is said behind my back and quite frankly I don't give a rat's patute. I'm not there to win a popularity contest.

It seems I am well respected by the DON, ADON, PT, OT, Dietary, other nurses, CNA's, residents, visiting ambulance personnel, visiting hospice personnel, resident family members, and even the Administrator...i.e. just about everyone. I'm surprised the Administrator likes me as sometimes I am a thorn in her side. I speak up when I see something I do not like but do it in a professional manor. Other staff seem intimidated by her. I write things on the department head meeting report nobody would have dreamed of writing previously.

I have not been floated in several months and I am thankful for that. Myself, the other two full-time nurses on the floor, and the regular floor CNA's joke around, bust each other's nuts, work hard, work smart, support each other, help each other, and together make our work lives and the lives of the resident's as stimulating as posible. The other two nurses on dayshift and I work as a well oiled machine. I have heard comments from several other non-nursing department personnel that our floor is the best run floor in the facility.

I entered into nursing after loosing my job during the downfall of the tech industry. As a volunteer EMT in the 80's-90's I had thought that I'd enjoy nursing but had what appeared to be secure positions I enjoyed so I did not pursue nursing. Prior to nursing I held positions in management, R&D, Quality Control, and production in various industries and work environments. Although not limited to nursing, never before have I witnessed the frequency and extent some women will go to make others look bad and themselves look good nor the frequency of the pi$$ing and moaning. I have not seen this among working groups where women are the equal or minority gender.

I cannot speak for other nursing programs but during my nursing school I thought it very strange the frequency of and emphasis placed on "follow the chain of command" and "conduct yourself as a professional". Now I know why. It appears to me that at least my school recognizes the existance of the generalization suggested by subject line of this thread and is trying to do somthing about it.

It boils down to the fact that no one person can change this prevailing reality. YOU have to start by objectively looking in the mirror and evaluate yourself and how you react and interact with your environment. Tolerating and working with those that won't is difficult at best but for your own mental health you must learn how. It is far easier to cast blame on another than to face the objective reality in that mirror every day. Just watch the various reality court room shows. I am absolutely amazed at how many people cast blame on someone else for their own mistakes, and shortcomings and cry "I am a victim". At the end of the day you are the one that has to face the objective data in that mirror.

SharonH, RN · Dec 16, 2006

I have to disagree. I don't like stereotyping as much as the next person. But there are certainly gender-related personality traits that permeate the profession. That is a fact - and it shouldn't be ignored.

NO, it is not a fact. NOT. Facts are objective, facts can be proven or disproven. That female nurses are gossipy, back-stabbers, and catty cannot be proven. Every negative trait listed and attributed to females on this thread has been personally observed by me in some men. Every positive trait that you ascribe to men, mostly yourself, has been observed by me in some women.

You believe physicians would never criticize or browbeat each other. WRONG. I have personally seen it happen. On more than one occasion. I have had physicians vent to me about other physicians. You stay in this business long enough, you will see.