NP's calling themselves MD's

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Does anyone else get as peeved as I do when nurse practitioners and/or physicians assistants call themselves doctors? Several of the NP's and PA's in the ER clinic where I work do this and it makes me grit my teeth each time I hear this. All the pts. call them "Dr." because that is how they represent themselves to the public. Am I being overly sensitive? I would never represent myself as an RN because I AM NOT ONE! After a really, long, crappy day, I was reprimanded by a pt. because I refered to the NP as Miss Smith and not Dr. Smith! The pt. actually told me I was being disrespectful by not saying "Dr. Smith" when speaking of her! And once again I explained to a pt., Miss Smith is not an MD. Then I get the "deer in the headlights" look from the pt. when I try to explain nurse practitioner. I know in the grand scheme of things this probably falls far but ..... Any advice or comments?

Specializes in Critical Care, Progressive Care.
When I'm out in public and run into patients, they frequently greet me by my first name or the title "doc."

There is nothing wrong with this. I am not misrepresenting myself as a physician. I guess I don't see the problem here.

From an historical perspectiven (ie 19 century and before) the person in the town that treated the sick was "doc" irrespecitve of their education level. Most "doctors" of the time were trained by apprenticeship. So the fact that people like to call their healer "doctor" makes alot of sense. "Doctor" was a term of respect given to the man (almost invariably) who was on call 24/7 and would ride out to the farm no matter the hour or the weather to attend a birth, death, childhood illness - and would do so irrespective of the families abilityh to pay.

One holdhover of the 19th century pracitce of using the term "doctor" for the person doing caring for the sick is practice of using the title "docor" in social settings only if one is a medical doctor. By customary ettiquette of the Emily Post/Judith Martin sort a PhD does not use their title in social settings, only professional settings.

Of course by the 20th century only persons with medical licenses were allowed to represent themselves as "doctor." This requirement has served and continues to serve the public by making it clear that a person holding themselve out as a "doctor" has a certain minimum level and type of education and training and a license to practice medicine.

As an early poster noted it would be rude to correct a patient every time they called an NP or PA "doctor."Correction the first few meetings so everybody is clear on the role seems to make sense. The clinic where I used to work was largely staffed by NPs and PAs - many pts called referred to their provider as "doctor so and so". Frankly I was too busy too worry about it.

A noteworthy parallel - my understanding from many CRNA's is that person doing the anesthesia is often called "gas" in the operating room irrespective of their degree/training.

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Specializes in Critical Care, Progressive Care.
A DNP will have approximately 1000 clinical practice hours, but is licensed to practice independently. Doesn't that strike you as odd?

I agree with your posts TiredMD, however this is not true in California. An NP with a DNP degree practices the same as any other NP - they have no more independence.

Of course NP's in a very few states (eg Washington) may practice completely indepenet, without a physician collaborator or supervisor.

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Specializes in Community Health, Med-Surg, Home Health.
I think that's where many PAs and NPs end up. We've never once introduced ourselves as "Doctor," have explained our titles repeatedly, wear our proper name tags, and just go on with our care of our patients.

You do realize that there's a certain amount of futility in your continuing explanations when you have a patient say something like "So, doc, how long have you been in this Nurse Practitioner business?"

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As an early poster noted it would be rude to correct a patient every time they called an NP or PA "doctor."Correction the first few meetings so everybody is clear on the role seems to make sense. The clinic where I used to work was largely staffed by NPs and PAs - many pts called referred to their provider as "doctor so and so". Frankly I was too busy too worry about it.

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You both articulated my point better than I ever could have. It is futile to bring this across to the patient, who may not ever accept this reality, and yes, eventually, I felt that I was really being rude, and so did most of the practitioners and staff. I started to think that we were doing this for ourselves moreso than for the benefit of the patient, who either became more confused, or actually didn't care. In the interest of going on with business as usual, we had to just move on.

Not everyone is servicing a savvy group of patients that are in the know. I am having a hard time trying to explain to some of my patients what high glucose means when some cannot get the concept in their heads that they have blood flowing through their veins. Which is more important??:banghead:

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Specializes in Med Surg, LTC, Home Health.

This is ridiculous! No NP or PA would introduce themselves as a doctor. That would undermine the long hours they put in to get their MASTER'S DEGREE. Only the patients make the mistake of calling them doctor. Obviously their duties are very similiar to doctors and thus is an easy mistake for a layman to make.

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What an interesting thread this turned out to be! Very informative. I tried to clarify some things by adding a second post but I guess that was skipped, since some thought I was being rude to the pt., didn't understand the term "Doctor", or that I am jealous I am not a NP! The NP I am speaking of does present herself as a medical doctor to patients and in the public. The patient who took great pleasure in berating me when I refered to the NP as "Miss" and not "Dr." is her life long best friend. Does the friend believe the NP is a physician? I guess so. Along with her other patients. I reside and work in the same town. A VERY small rural county. I have only lived here for around 5 years. Even if I spent the rest of my life here I would still be an outsider. If the other staff members of this very small hospital (including administration) are content with this situation then so be it. In the grand scheme of things it is just a small thorn in my a**.

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Hello! My mother-in-law emailed this article and I thought I would share with the group. The article is about the shortage of Physicians and the role of DNPs in the future.

Something I found interesting - a quote from the article ->

"some physician groups warn that blurring the line between doctors and nurses will confuse patients and jeopardize care" :chuckle

AND

"Physician groups want DNPs to be required to clearly state to patients and prospective students that they are not medical doctors." :bow:

OK...so I changed my user ID today in anticipation of furthering my education. And also thought I'd get a head start on what the "Physician Groups" expect me to do...

So here goes --

I AM NOT A DOCTOR (Although my user ID says I am) :wink2:

God forbid after 8 years of nursing education someone be called a doctor. I guess after you clean up poop you waive your right to be called Doc.

I'm glad I chose nursing...and after all is said and done if everyone is called doctor who will care for the patients? :lol2:

The Article --

http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/Departments/eLearning/?article=MakeRoomDrNurse&GT1=27001

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This article was posted by others here when it was first published in the WSJ, and there are numerous existing threads discussing the DNP, if you are interested in reviewing what's already here. You could do a search for "DNP" and I'm sure that would locate them for you. :)

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Specializes in Education, FP, LNC, Forensics, ED, OB.

Threads merged.

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Specializes in Mursing.

Maybe I'm beating a dead horse, but aren't we all here for the patient? If we try to explain the mechanism of warfarin in lay terms and not using technical jargon, shouldn't we be doing the same with who we are? Shouldn't we be trying not to confuse the crap out of our patients with what our titles are?

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Please read my third post from may 18. The NP intros herself as a MD. My OP was not about trying to set the patients straight.

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Specializes in icu, er, transplant, case management, ps.

I all ways understood that anyone who earned their PhD was entitled to call themselves doctor. All of my professors, in graduate school, had earned their Ph D's. And we all addressed them as Dr. SoSo. But they did not hold the proposed designation. On the other hand, the proposed change for nurses does not make them physicians. And nothing will change that fact. I don't all ways agree with the medical profession, but I believe this is an attempt to put into the market place, more individuals representing themselves as a doctor. Having less then twenty-six months of clinical experience is not enough. But that is just my opinion.

Woody:twocents:

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It all boils down to educating the public.

I remember being 13 years old, new in high school, and everyone referred to my principal as, "Doc Greear"...I thought (because my own father was a physician, and to me, this was the only type of doctor there was), I once asked one of my teachers why everyone called him, "Doc Greear"?

She said, "Because he's a doctor of education"...and I thought this was along the lines of "jack of all trades"...I thought she was teasing me.

So one day, "Doc Greear" was outside his office in the hall of my high school (because even at 13 curiosity killed me), and I teased him and said, "I hear you are a doctor of education?" He said, "That's right!" and I said, "I think it's funny."

He said, "Why do you think it's funny?"

And I, in my very ignorant innocence, said, "You can't be a doctor of education!" ...and I meant..."you can't be a doctor of education because you can only be a doctor of medicine!"

He said, "Come with me".

We went to his office, and he showed me his Doctorate degree he received from the University of Virginia in Education. He explained to me in great detail the difference between my father being called a "doctor" and him. He explained to me that it referred to the type of degree you earned, that it was a very advanced academic degree.

So I left his office knowing better.

Just a few minutes of his time to teach a young girl the difference, that is all it took.

If you can do it with a 13-year-old you can do it with anyone.

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