NP's calling themselves MD's

pagandeva2000, LPN · May 18, 2008

I have seen this as well. The same can go for frustrated LPNs who cannot pursue/obtain their RN degree/licensure, Medical Assistants that call themselves nurses, but compensated by taking their course, CNAs, and more.

In reality, embitterment can go on and on. I think that rather than focus on what was not obtained, pride should be held on what has actually been accomplished. There is always someone out there that wishes to be you. A homeless person wishes they had a cardboard box, a home health aide may be dying to be a CNA, a person may grab at a chance to work at a secure position as a housekeeper.

pagandeva2000, LPN · May 18, 2008

And someone with a PhD in French Literature is a... Doctor! So why does one get to claim the title and the other doesn't? If it's confusion, then our residents need to quit calling themselves "Dr. Resident" because my patients think they can do things only an attending can do.
Easy solution: Maybe instead of everyone fighting over "Dr." we should just start referring to MDs as "Physician Bob." (They don't all have to be "Bob" though, some could be "Physician Dave.":))
Some of the residents do that. Some just cause trouble and confuse the patients. For a lot of my patients, the specialty NPs and PAs are managing the patients more than residents are and actually have more "power" than the residents. One specialty, I can actually send home the patient once their NP signs the d/c papers. Of course, one specialty, I can send them home with a resident's signature. Maybe whoever can sign D/C orders can be called "Dr." and those who can't, don't get to call themselves "Dr." That would resolve the only "Dr." confusion I've noticed patients having the last few weeks.

Yeah, I would be bonkers, too...:chuckle

wooh, BSN, RN · May 18, 2008

That is the point I am trying to make. From what I have seen, we have tried to educate our patients for YEARS. To no avail. Most of us STILL introduce ourselves, or our collagues in the titles they have rightfully earned. But, at this point, it seems that we are doing it for ourselves, rather than the patient if they are adamant in viewing things the way they want to see them.
I can see the frustration...really. I believe that the people who have earned their title paid the blood, sweat and tears to be called who they are. I want them all to receive their just due, their respect, their kuddos and duckies! But, if it does not matter to the patient, if they insist that they are going to see it for what it is, confuse them or even scare them, then, what else is there?

There's the truth. And the truth is if MDs wanted a title just for themselves, they should have picked one that wasn't already taken. So if they want a title just for themselves now, I say they can have "Physician." And since that doesn't shorten to "Doc" anymore, they can also take "Fizz."

ETA: Tomorrow at work, I'm going to try calling all of the MDs "Fizz" and see how it goes over. Thankfully, I don't work the next day when the reports over the "crazy nurse" get to my manager.:)

pagandeva2000, LPN · May 18, 2008

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_%28title%29

An interesting article in Wikipedia on the title and word Doctor. Just felt like sharing

PMHNP10 · May 18, 2008

I know I am going to get flamed for this but I am going to state it. I have discovered that there are many NP's (whether they are DNP or MSN) who are slightly regretful and perhaps jaded that they chose not to pursue medical school. Definitely not all -- most are in fact proud they are an NP and do not want to be referred to as doctor -- however, there are many who seem to feel this way. In an attempt to compensate and make themselves feel better, they choose to pursue their DNP in an attempt to finally be referred to as "doctor" in the clinical setting.
A perfect example is a professor I had not too long ago. He told us how he was accepted into medical school and actually did a semester but realized he did not like the medical model. He regretted it later on and decided to pursue his DNP. He regrets that he did not stick the MD route out but is content with his DNP. HOWEVER, if a patient talks to him (or anyone for that fact), he has this need to tell everyone he is "Dr. Joe". In fact, he had the clinic he worked at print "Dr. Joe, DNP, APN-BC".
I know most DNP's do not fall into this category, but it makes me believe a lot more do then I thought because of the recent decision that allows DNP's to have more priveleges and allows them to be called "doctor" in certain clinical settings.
Furthermore, I think it is an insult to the nursing profession to be called "doctor" in the clincal setting. We are nurses, not doctors. I want to be distinguished from a physician. There is a certain stigma with physicians and I personally would not want that stigma. In fact, when I go to a regular family clinic, I request to see a nurse practitioner because I know they were taught using the nursing model and not the medical.

I'm not responding to dispute your statement, but rather to relate my experience.

I wanted to be a doctor all my life and worked very hard to get to that point then all of the sudden I started to change my goals. Ok, maybe it wasn't a sudden change, but it didn't take long--started in my Soph yr. of college and was concluded by the end of my junior year. I honestly am not 100% sure why being an MD became less and less important--I promise it wasn't because I didn't do well enough in school to get into med school. In fact I was doing really really well. Maybe at the time, I didn't want to put myself through the torture and maybe it was because I doubted my ability to succeed. Or maybe it was another one of those lessons I wanted to teach my father (long story), I dunno.

So here I am a bit over a decade later and I'm pursuing a MSN to become a PMHNP (starting this Fall). And there are 2 things I am absolutely certain of....I have no desire whatsoever of earning any kind of doctoral degree and my only regret is that I didn't become a nurse while in school the first time because I thought nursing was a female career and I apparently was too macho for such a thing.

pagandeva2000, LPN · May 18, 2008

There's the truth. And the truth is if MDs wanted a title just for themselves, they should have picked one that wasn't already taken. So if they want a title just for themselves now, I say they can have "Physician." And since that doesn't shorten to "Doc" anymore, they can also take "Fizz."
ETA: Tomorrow at work, I'm going to try calling all of the MDs "Fizz" and see how it goes over. Thankfully, I don't work the next day when the reports over the "crazy nurse" get to my manager.:)

All of these titles are true, too. After reading the article I just posted from Wikipedia, I can certify myself as Looney:bugeyes: Practical Nurse. I might get reported along with you to my own superiors... :lol2:

wooh, BSN, RN · May 18, 2008

Does anyone else get as peeved as I do when nurse practitioners and/or physicians assistants call themselves doctors? Several of the NP's and PA's in the ER clinic where I work do this and it makes me grit my teeth each time I hear this. All the pts. call them "Dr." because that is how they represent themselves to the public. Am I being overly sensitive? I would never represent myself as an RN because I AM NOT ONE! After a really, long, crappy day, I was reprimanded by a pt. because I refered to the NP as Miss Smith and not Dr. Smith! The pt. actually told me I was being disrespectful by not saying "Dr. Smith" when speaking of her! And once again I explained to a pt., Miss Smith is not an MD. Then I get the "deer in the headlights" look from the pt. when I try to explain nurse practitioner. I know in the grand scheme of things this probably falls far but ..... Any advice or comments?

Just realized I never really addressed the OP.

I don't think the problem comes so much from NPs and PAs referring to themselves as if they were MDs. I think the problem, if there really is one, comes when the patient gets it in their head that the NP/PA is an MD. And they mean it as a sign of respect, and they mean well, but in reality, it's not a very good way to show that respect.

A couple weeks ago, a little girl warmed up to me after having her a couple days in a row, and she started saying, "Dank you docdoor" (My bad attempt at spelling her pronunciation of "Thank you doctor") every single time ANYONE left the room. And as cute as it was, inside I was like, "I'm NOT the doctor! I don't want to be the doctor, never did! I'm a nurse, and a darn good one!" But not going to say that to a cute little girl. And it was so not a good day for educating the youngun's on the great career choice being a nurse could be in 20 years.

I think it's presumptuous of MDs that think that the NPs and PAs want to be them. Not sure about PAs, don't know a whole lot very well, but the NPs I know like that it comes from a nursing point of view.

And maybe, just maybe, the person with a doctorate in nursing doesn't want people to think they're an MD when they say, "Hi, I'm Dr. Nurse." Maybe they want people to think that they're well versed in French Literature.:) Or here's a really crazy thought, maybe they're just really proud that they pursued their nursing education to the highest levels.

pagandeva2000, LPN · May 18, 2008

Just realized I never really addressed the OP.
I don't think the problem comes so much from NPs and PAs referring to themselves as if they were MDs. I think the problem, if there really is one, comes when the patient gets it in their head that the NP/PA is an MD. And they mean it as a sign of respect, and they mean well, but in reality, it's not a very good way to show that respect.
A couple weeks ago, a little girl warmed up to me after having her a couple days in a row, and she started saying, "Dank you docdoor" (My bad attempt at spelling her pronunciation of "Thank you doctor") every single time ANYONE left the room. And as cute as it was, inside I was like, "I'm NOT the doctor! I don't want to be the doctor, never did! I'm a nurse, and a darn good one!" But not going to say that to a cute little girl. And it was so not a good day for educating the youngun's on the great career choice being a nurse could be in 20 years.
I think it's presumptuous of MDs that think that the NPs and PAs want to be them. Not sure about PAs, don't know a whole lot very well, but the NPs I know like that it comes from a nursing point of view.
And maybe, just maybe, the person with a doctorate in nursing doesn't want people to think they're an MD when they say, "Hi, I'm Dr. Nurse." Maybe they want people to think that they're well versed in French Literature.:) Or here's a really crazy thought, maybe they're just really proud that they pursued their nursing education to the highest levels.

Again, the point I was saying...do we challenge the little children who learn in school by using picture and coloring books that the person with the long white coat and stethoscope is the doctor? Maybe we should begin educating them in early childhood education? What about the cute little old lady who called the CNA 'my nurse'...who was exposed to only Registered Nurses before World War II? We are catching many of these people at an inappropriate time to enlighten them on who we are.

I know that the PA I work with has felt that way many a day! I think that he wants people to know that he is no dummy...that it took alot to become a Physician's Assistant...that it was no walk in the park. Get that respect and all of the kuddos. But, he has to humbly accept being called "Doctor" just to keep the peace... :banghead:

pagandeva2000, LPN · May 18, 2008

Oh, yes, wooh, we sure did get sidetracked into a whole other dimension, didn't we??

santhony44, MSN, RN, NP · May 18, 2008

I know that the PA I work with has felt that way many a day! I think that he wants people to know that he is no dummy...that it took alot to become a Physician's Assistant...that it was no walk in the park. Get that respect and all of the kuddos. But, he has to humbly accept being called "Doctor" just to keep the peace...

I think that's where many PAs and NPs end up. We've never once introduced ourselves as "Doctor," have explained our titles repeatedly, wear our proper name tags, and just go on with our care of our patients.

You do realize that there's a certain amount of futility in your continuing explanations when you have a patient say something like "So, doc, how long have you been in this Nurse Practitioner business?"

I've been giving a lot of thought to the dnp programs myself. I haven't found one that is what I really want, and I don't think I will. I expect that I will find one I can live with, and go for that.

My reasons for pursuing a DNP have nothing to do with wishing I had become a MD. I don't. I never wanted to go to medical school and don't wish now that I had. I would like to be able, at some point, to semi-retire and teach, preferably on-line, from home, in my jammies. Teaching jobs are easier to obtain with a doctoral degree. I don't want a PhD; I have no real interest in research.

I do have some personal reasons for wanting to obtain that title of "Doctor" but they have nothing at all to do with using it in the clinical setting.

Otessa, BSN, RN · May 18, 2008

I've never heard that.

This is a new one for me too.

I have worked with many NPs and PAs and it says clearly on their lab coats and name badges "Physician's Assistant" or "Nurse Practitioner"

wannabesedated · May 18, 2008

Here is what the Center for Nursing Advocacy has to say about this issue:

Should we refer to physicians as "doctors"?

http://nursingadvocacy.org/faq/nf/physician_vs_doctor.html

OK, if I promise to say "physicians," not "doctors," may I go to the "physician's office?" May I "take my loved one to the physician?"

http://nursingadvocacy.org/faq/nf/ap_office.html