NP's calling themselves MD's

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Does anyone else get as peeved as I do when nurse practitioners and/or physicians assistants call themselves doctors? Several of the NP's and PA's in the ER clinic where I work do this and it makes me grit my teeth each time I hear this. All the pts. call them "Dr." because that is how they represent themselves to the public. Am I being overly sensitive? I would never represent myself as an RN because I AM NOT ONE! After a really, long, crappy day, I was reprimanded by a pt. because I refered to the NP as Miss Smith and not Dr. Smith! The pt. actually told me I was being disrespectful by not saying "Dr. Smith" when speaking of her! And once again I explained to a pt., Miss Smith is not an MD. Then I get the "deer in the headlights" look from the pt. when I try to explain nurse practitioner. I know in the grand scheme of things this probably falls far but ..... Any advice or comments?

Specializes in Peds, PICU, Home health, Dialysis.
However, considering you are most likely a medical school student, I can understand where you feel threatened. :D

And this rebuttle is moot. Everyone on this board could be someone different then we claim to be. I always thought you were a pre-nursing student.

And TiredMD is also on studentdoctor.net (not that this proves he/she is an MD) and he/she responds in such a manner that would not lead me to believe they are something other than an MD/DO.

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Specializes in Med-Surg/Peds/O.R./Legal/cardiology.

Amen, MickeyJ and To Whom It May Concern: TiredMD is a physician/surgeon.

ebear

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As someone in the nursing field as well, I must admit you are highly mistaken on many things you have posted about the DNP.

And MD/DO should 100% absolutely be the ONLY health professional in a hospital setting be called doctor.

It angers me that DNP's think they should be called "doctor" in the hospital setting -- they are NOT a doctor. A DNP and an MD/DO have totally different educational/training requirements. I dare you to find a fresh DNP graduate and compare them to a fresh MD/DO out of residency -- the DNP is likely to be no where near the MD/DO in managing diseases and diagnosing. I respect those who pursue their DNP and think they are integral practitioners to the health care field, but it is wrong for them to think they should be called doctor because they took a few extra credits in school and completed a "residency" (a DNP residency is a joke).

Furthermore, there are Ph.D.'s walking around my hospital that work in the translation department. Should staff refer to them as "doctors" when around patients? Absolutely not. The term doctor should be used when referring to an MD/DO -- this is not to stroke the ego of a physician, but rather to not confuse the patients who their doctor is.

And in regards to the DNP -- you can get your DNP ONLINE in a 2 year span. 4 years of BSN + 2 or 3 year DNP = 6 or 7 years. MD/DO takes 4 years undergrad, 4 years INTENSE medical school, and 3 - 7+ years of intense residency. MD/DO = 11 - 15+ years of education. There is a huge difference in the two and they should be treated that way.

Sorry to get defensive. But as someone in the nursing field, it bothers me to no end when nurses feel this need to be considered an equal to an MD/DO. We are all equal in terms of a person and should all be treated the same and work together, but there is and should be a clear distinguishing line between the two.

When you earn a PhD you earn the right to be called doctor because in fact you are earning a doctorate degree. Most of my college professors were educated at a doctoral level and hence were referred to as Dr. XXX. I would never consider calling them Mr. or Ms. XXX.

I understand the concern over confusion when calling a PhD educated psychologist "doctor" (for example) around a patient, but they've devoted alot of blood, sweat and tears to earn that degree and doctor is the title they have earned. I do not see how a nurse who has earned a doctorate degree.

as for comparing new MDs vs DNSs...I don't know that I'd agree given that a DNS might have many years (even decades) of real life experience caring for patients whereas a new MD might not have been alive as long as the DNS has been practicing. I know I'm using an extreme example, but I think real life experience should not be discounted.

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Specializes in Education, FP, LNC, Forensics, ED, OB.

I've been called Doctor many times in my career. I do correct the individual(s) and sometimes it is to no avail. But, I've never misrepresented myself as MD. And, I never would.

As for the DNP and the APN using the title, "Dr.", I am really torn about this. I think that it could only serve to be problematic should each individual state make laws allowing this to happen.

In Reading the Pearson report:

...six states (Arizona, Illinois, New York, Pennsylvania, Texas, and Virginia) that have legislatively allowed qualified NPs to be addressed as "doctor" as

long as they clarify that they are NPs.

...seven states (Georgia, Iowa, Maine, Mississippi, Ohio, Oklahoma, and Oregon) have statutory restrictions against doctorally educated NPs being addressed appropriately.

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When you earn a PhD you earn the right to be called doctor because in fact you are earning a doctorate degree. Most of my college professors were educated at a doctoral level and hence were referred to as Dr. XXX. I would never consider calling them Mr. or Ms. XXX.

As a matter of fact, I had doctorally educated clinical instructors; no way would I have altered my use of doctor XXX in front of a patient; that would've been a bad career move.

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Specializes in Peds, PICU, Home health, Dialysis.
When you earn a PhD you earn the right to be called doctor because in fact you are earning a doctorate degree. Most of my college professors were educated at a doctoral level and hence were referred to as Dr. XXX. I would never consider calling them Mr. or Ms. XXX.

I understand the concern over confusion when calling a PhD educated psychologist "doctor" (for example) around a patient, but they've devoted alot of blood, sweat and tears to earn that degree and doctor is the title they have earned. I do not see how a nurse who has earned a doctorate degree.

as for comparing new MDs vs DNSs...I don't know that I'd agree given that a DNS might have many years (even decades) of real life experience caring for patients whereas a new MD might not have been alive as long as the DNS has been practicing. I know I'm using an extreme example, but I think real life experience should not be discounted.

I 100% agree that in any other setting, someone who has earned a doctorate degree should have the right to be referred to as "Dr. Doe." I refer to every one of my Ph.D./DNP/DSN professors as doctor. I would never think twice.

I am strictly referring to the hospital environment. There are some hospitals that have enacted rules stating that MD/DO's are to be the only faculty called doctor because it can be very confusing to patients if the pharmacist, DNP, MD, and anyone else with a doctorate degree be called doctor.

And I agree that there are many NP's who are just as knowledgable or surpass the knowledge of many doctors due to their experiences and number of years working in the field. However, I have come across a few DNP's and MSN/NP's that scare me and I have no idea how they made it to become an NP.

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Specializes in Peds, PICU, Home health, Dialysis.
As a matter of fact, I had doctorally educated clinical instructors; no way would I have altered my use of doctor XXX in front of a patient; that would've been a bad career move.

Totally agree on this as well. I had a DNP clinical instructor who I referred to as doctor in the clinical setting but never around the patient.

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Specializes in Community Health, Med-Surg, Home Health.

The director of staff education in my facility is a nurse that earned her doctorate, and she has been called Dr. So and So. I do think it causes confusion, but she did earn her title. I do often wonder how the physicians at my place of work view this.

What I have noticed is that many of the Physician Assistants and Nurse Practitioners have done the best that they can to correct their patients as often as possible, but, the clients we deal with are poor, elderly, immigrants and uneducated (not saying this in a negative light). They are used to the traditional roles and will not deviate from them in the slightest. They view all of nursing staff; CNAs, Patient Techs, LPNs and RNs as nurses and no matter how many times we correct them, it still continues.

For many of the PAs and NPs, it seemed to have become not worth the argument with the client, because it appeared to confuse them. I work in the Coumadin CLinic with a Physician's Assistant, and when I introduce patients to him, I say that he is the PA. They continue to call him Doctor, some, immediately after the introduction. The PA shrugged his shoulders and he told me that this went on for years, and eventually, he stopped correcting them. It was not because he wanted to take the limelight away from the physicians, but that it was a tiring battle that seemed it would never end. I understood his point. He is perfectly able to manage this clinic, and he consults with the attendings when he needs to, acts accordingly, gives the physicians the respect due to them. In fact, even the doctors stopped correcting these patients, because it would never end. But, we don't do it. We introduce them in the title they are licensed/certified/trained for.

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I 100% agree that in any other setting, someone who has earned a doctorate degree should have the right to be referred to as "Dr. Doe." I refer to every one of my Ph.D./DNP/DSN professors as doctor. I would never think twice.

I am strictly referring to the hospital environment. There are some hospitals that have enacted rules stating that MD/DO's are to be the only faculty called doctor because it can be very confusing to patients if the pharmacist, DNP, MD, and anyone else with a doctorate degree be called doctor.

And I agree that there are many NP's who are just as knowledgable or surpass the knowledge of many doctors due to their experiences and number of years working in the field. However, I have come across a few DNP's and MSN/NP's that scare me and I have no idea how they made it to become an NP.

fair nuff, but this could be true of all professions; I've seen MDs/DOs who tarnish the profession, PhDs who make me wonder how they manage to breath on their own, RNs who show the compassion of a rattlesnake, and etc.; but some how, some way, they made it through a program of some sort

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Specializes in Community Health, Med-Surg, Home Health.

And I agree that there are many NP's who are just as knowledgable or surpass the knowledge of many doctors due to their experiences and number of years working in the field. However, I have come across a few DNP's and MSN/NP's that scare me and I have no idea how they made it to become an NP.

I am thinking of one, now, that scares the clothes off of my back:uhoh3::confused:. Each time I see her, I run for cover...be there...can understand it. The same as every other titled health care profession.

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Specializes in Community Health, Med-Surg, Home Health.
fair nuff, but this could be true of all professions; I've seen MDs/DOs who tarnish the profession, PhDs who make me wonder how they manage to breath on their own, RNs who show the compassion of a rattlesnake, and the etc.; but some how, some way, they made it through a program of some sort

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah...scary, isn't it??

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Specializes in Acute Care Psych, DNP Student.

Here's what comes up on the first page of google when I put in "DNP Curriculum".

University of Tennessee - 2 years, requires "Residency Practicum" rather than dissertation

Case Western - 2 years, requires dissertation or "DNP Project"

University of Arizona - 2.5 years, including an entire semester devoted to oral and written exams

Minnesota State University - 2 years

There's no real need for me to go on.

I don't have any dogs in this hunt - just a comment about the above time-lines. I knew about the UA program you referenced. It is four years for the DNP:

http://nursing.arizona.edu/DNP.htm

The 2.5 years for the DNP you refer to above is for those who have already earned an MSN. So at the University of Arizona, a DNP equals 4 - 4.5 years post bachelor's degree.

I've looked up Case Western and the University of Tennessee, as well. The DNP schedules you listed above are for those who already have APN certification and MSNs.

U of T:

http://www.utmem.edu/nursing/academic%20programs/DNP/DNP%20schedules/dnpacutecareschedule.php

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