Something interesting I've noticed is that with undergraduate education although many justify the huge tuition they have paid for their uber expensive big name teaching hospital affiliated university BSN is it doesn't really make that much of a difference. I have done quite well with my community college start and have worked a major medical centers in the Baltimore/DC area as an undergraduate ADN and BSN.
However with NP education the reputation of the school does seem to matter. Where I work unless there is a compelling reason they quietly ignore resumes from three of the big name, "As Seen on TV", for profit schools. I work with one excellent NP who won't precept students from certain schools due to bad experiences with totally unprepared students.
Is that what others are finding? Does our NP pedigree matter?
its always going to be difficult to progress the field of nursing as long as the word nurse is in our title. I mean look at the wikipedia definition of 'nurse' (the verb, which i won't copy paste) and engineer
An engineer is a professional practitioner of engineering, concerned with applying scientific knowledge, mathematics, and ingenuity to develop solutions for technical, societal and commercial problems.
or the word/term physician, or scientist, etc.
The word nurse, while nothing is wrong with the word itself, spikes a different set of reactions when heard than the above stated words. It is sort of like to a less extent, attempting to doctorize the field of 'nurse,' trying to doctorize medical assisting, custodial science (I have heard this term before), truck driving (Nothing against truckers, i can barely back up my F-150 much less a semi, that takes more skill than I can imagine for real), etc.
Again there is nothing wrong with any of these fields, and I have done medical assisting and custodial work while in high school and college (along with fast food work). but it seems everybody wants to make a doctorate out of his or her profession. The unfortunate case is, when this is attempted, people take a small amount of knowledge and blow it out of useful proportion (lol nursing textbooks) just in an attempt to justify their doctorialness (probably not a word).
The world needs expanded knowledge, but not in the self-centered way to just progress a field which may not need as much bloated progression as many of the doctor of nursing degrees tout.
If we want useful programs the programs have to offer something USEFUL at the doctoral level, not just fluff to sound smart (as I stated above).
It also seems as if there is much overlap with nursing degrees with other professions, (nursing informatics with generalized information technology, nursing management with the MBA, nurse practitionering with physicians, and it goes on.
It is too confusing, and a sad, pathetic attempt to justify the supposed difficulty of our profession. I would also not be surprised if the next vigorous onslaught of nursing degrees do not hit us in the next few years, examples being, nurse physicists, nurse engineers, nurse business managers, nurse accountants, nurse project managers, nurse nurse managers, nurse nurse nurses, nurse constructors, nurse contractors, nurse astronauts, nurse pilots, nurse scuba divers, etc. We will have a nurse for everything baby.
On another note, they also offer masters in respiratory therapy and such, not really sure what thats worth but from all my respiratory friends they say its just a money sink to put another paper on the wall.
Oh what shall we do to fix this jumbled mess of 'advanced nursing degrees?'
If it helps, my father in law is an Ob/Gyn and employs a whnp. I asked him if it matters what school np's attend and he said he couldn't care less.
Lol, yeah gotta love a Doc they are so practical and just want the job done. Most don't care but in many cases the admin at hospitals are the ones filtering the resumes and they have all kinds of opinions. :)
Where you went to school may matter in certain situations. If you live in a town with a large university that pumps out 100 NP students a semester that all providers/employers are familiar with vs an online program no one has heard of.
However, so much more goes into it than just where you graduated from:
1) How you interview
2) How much pre-NP experience you bring
3) Fit within the practice (some diversity within a group is nice)
4) Special skills
Bottom line we all pass the same boards! At that point in time we are all equal - no matter what anyone else claims! However, just like the basic nursing program it is up to the individual provider to gain experience, skills and knowledge to one day become a expert level practitioner.
I haven't graduated, but I feel like in my area, certain schools are favored. I don't have a lot of solid evidence to back this on...only the observed fact that my friends who graduated from my school or a select few others are having a MUCH easier time finding jobs compared to some from schools that have no brick and mortar affiliate. Well, to be honest, grads around here from even one school that has campuses in multiple states and is for-profit(can you guess where I'm referring to?) seem to have a hard time finding jobs in comparison. The same holds true for finding preceptors.
Bottom line we all pass the same boards! At that point in time we are all equal - no matter what anyone else claims!
I'd disagree. In addition to the points you noted, there are NPs who graduate ready to practice, which in my experience is what physicians expect, and those who aren't. It sounds like there are a few places that offer orientations to new grads but my guess is they are few and far between. Employers expect us to be ready to work with minimal hand holding.
I think you misunderstood what I was stating. My point was directed more towards the attitude that some NPs believed this school or that school made more qualified practitioners. The school only plays a small part in the type of provider one becomes.
Passing the boards states that you are certified to have the minimum knowledge to begin your practice. Sure there are graduates with additional skills but we have no means to quantify that and to consider the school you attended as the qualifying factor is not always the best means.
I have been working for 15 years as an NP and to date have yet to meet a new NP who was ready to practice. They all require some means of guidance. granted, many are thrown in the fire and sink or swim (its what I did).
I gotcha. And when I called the area between you and I to find preceptors (I was very determined that if I had to travel I would), they politely told me no because they were full already with students from the bigger schools in that city between us and where you are. (Sorry for being vague, but I think you know which institutions I mean.)
And it may even be the STUDENTS themselves that cause this, not the school. I have two friends who are attending that school that are very serious, hardworking, great nurses and students...but they frequently are less than impressed with the ethics of their fellow classmates. That probably says more than it just being the school name. But idk, just what I have observed and been told, for my area only!
Open book tests va closed book test schools nuff said. You can't build a foundation without memorizing a large amount of facts first. The usual defense of open book tests is usually that memorizing doesn't teach students to conceptualize information and memorizing is a low level of learning blah blah. These people who say this came from an open book test school.
I read this a while back and thought what school has open book tests?? Since then I have met several nurses who are in programs where they are essentially given open book tests.
In my program we have all our tests proctored - which is a huge PIA, but on some of these programs they are given 3 hours to take a 50 question test online - if that is not open book I do not know what is. Another program has zero tests but weekly open book quizzes!
An instructor recently told my class that a patient should expect a certain level of knowledge from a provider and that should include knowing what the risk factors are for many conditions and what are appropriate and high lab values are - and the only way we learn that is to commit it to memory. Can you imagine sitting with a patient and needing to look up every fact - would not instill much confidence.
Geez! If I had open book tests I would never miss a question - but some of the questions I have missed and looked up after are in the vault now and I will never forget those.
Can you imagine medical school with open book tests? Geez!!
I read this a while back and thought what school has open book tests?? Since then I have met several nurses who are in programs where they are essentially given open book tests.
In my program we have all our tests proctored - which is a huge PIA, but on some of these programs they are given 3 hours to take a 50 question test online - if that is not open book I do not know what is. Another program has zero tests but weekly open book quizzes!
An instructor recently told my class that a patient should expect a certain level of knowledge from a provider and that should include knowing what the risk factors are for many conditions and what are appropriate and high lab values are - and the only way we learn that is to commit it to memory. Can you imagine sitting with a patient and needing to look up every fact - would not instill much confidence.
Geez! If I had open book tests I would never miss a question - but some of the questions I have missed and looked up after are in the vault now and I will never forget those.
Can you imagine medical school with open book tests? Geez!!
synaptic
249 Posts
its always going to be difficult to progress the field of nursing as long as the word nurse is in our title. I mean look at the wikipedia definition of 'nurse' (the verb, which i won't copy paste) and engineer
or the word/term physician, or scientist, etc.
The word nurse, while nothing is wrong with the word itself, spikes a different set of reactions when heard than the above stated words. It is sort of like to a less extent, attempting to doctorize the field of 'nurse,' trying to doctorize medical assisting, custodial science (I have heard this term before), truck driving (Nothing against truckers, i can barely back up my F-150 much less a semi, that takes more skill than I can imagine for real), etc.
Again there is nothing wrong with any of these fields, and I have done medical assisting and custodial work while in high school and college (along with fast food work). but it seems everybody wants to make a doctorate out of his or her profession. The unfortunate case is, when this is attempted, people take a small amount of knowledge and blow it out of useful proportion (lol nursing textbooks) just in an attempt to justify their doctorialness (probably not a word).
The world needs expanded knowledge, but not in the self-centered way to just progress a field which may not need as much bloated progression as many of the doctor of nursing degrees tout.
If we want useful programs the programs have to offer something USEFUL at the doctoral level, not just fluff to sound smart (as I stated above).
It also seems as if there is much overlap with nursing degrees with other professions, (nursing informatics with generalized information technology, nursing management with the MBA, nurse practitionering with physicians, and it goes on.
It is too confusing, and a sad, pathetic attempt to justify the supposed difficulty of our profession. I would also not be surprised if the next vigorous onslaught of nursing degrees do not hit us in the next few years, examples being, nurse physicists, nurse engineers, nurse business managers, nurse accountants, nurse project managers, nurse nurse managers, nurse nurse nurses, nurse constructors, nurse contractors, nurse astronauts, nurse pilots, nurse scuba divers, etc. We will have a nurse for everything baby.
On another note, they also offer masters in respiratory therapy and such, not really sure what thats worth but from all my respiratory friends they say its just a money sink to put another paper on the wall.
Oh what shall we do to fix this jumbled mess of 'advanced nursing degrees?'