It occurred to me this morning that Ms. Pham or Ms. Vinson might be members here at AN, and they may be reading some of these threads since most of their communication would be limited to cyberspace at this point. (Some other people may have already noted that - I haven't read all the Ebola threads.)
I just want to say directly to them, if they are reading... you are in my thoughts. I admire your courage in trying to care for a patient without the necessary equipment and training. I'm sorry that you had to become the face of nursing safety issues in this way, but I hope we can take advantage of your unfortunate circumstances to improve conditions for all of us. Regardless of the media coverage, blaming, PR and legal maneuvering, and political spin you may be subjected to, please know that I hold you in the highest regard, and first and foremost wish for your quick and full recovery.
Specializes in All areas of Critical Care, ED, PACU, Pre-Op, BH,.
I don't think it is that black & white about the fever. When I run a temp of 99.5, I KNOW I am sick. Then again, I know my body. Everyone is different. I normally run extremely low temps so any elevation for me, I just KNOW I am sick. I am generally achey, tired, possibly nauseated. I am sick. Personally, I would not need someone from the CDC telling me not to fly. I would be stupid to ignore my own body telling me what I know. My body is trying to fight something.
I hope they both get better. If the story is exactly as reported, then Amber didn't use good judgement BUT she isn't just a nurse. She was someone who potentially had a very serious disease. Her temp was maybe up ,maybe not. I know that many people want to deny that something like that could be wrong. It is too awful to be true. Many of us, in her shoes would like to say I couldn't have that. The possibility is too remote. People react like this when they have preterm labor or an MI. They talk themselves out of the really bad thing and dismiss it as something less serious. She is human, like the rest of us.
I am irritated with the hospital and CDC. I know they do not want to cause a panic but the stakes are very high. They should have erred on the side of caution. They should have said, guys we know this is way over the top but we are going to have you stay home, etc (with full pay---Ha Ha Ha!) until the incubation period is over. Why did they tell Amber it was ok to travel? How about skyping with your wedding planner? Now someone is on a cruise to Mexico who was in the lab handling Thomas Duncan's blood. How many fellow cruisers will go to their doctor worried they have it?
Many years ago, I got the measles. Another person working several floors up had them too. I was told that I must have contracted them from that person who became ill first. To this day, 26 years later, I do not know or remember having any contact what so ever with that person. If anything, I stood in the elevator with him for a minute or two, but not even closely. I realize the transmission is different. However, things happen. There are many things we do not know about Ebola and in particular, exactly why during this outbreak, it is spreading so quickly. What if the nurse was getting sick on the plane and had diarrhea? What if you are taking steroids for RA or Lupus flare and you wipe the seat? My gosh, what if an immunospppressed kid gets it? That is unlikely, but it is something that can happen.
It is up to CDC and the hospital to provide some leadership. They dropped the ball. They gave bad advice and now we are seeing it spread. A lot of that hysteria they tried so hard to prevent is going to materialize many times over. It probably won't be a huge epidemic, but it will scare a lot of people. With a little thought, the siutation would not have become what it is now.
Don't even get me started on that idiot Dr. Nancy Snydermoron! What a selfish idiot. She ceremoniously put herself in "quarantine" and then is so spoiled, she must go out for soup. What a jerk. With "leaders" like some of these people, we are sunk. A kid in high school biology has more sense than some of the "professionals" squawking at us from the tv.
I can't bring myself to hold a person who knew she had a fever after exposure to an Ebola patient and then chose to put hundreds of other people at risk by traveling on a commercial airline, TWICE, in highest regard.
I don't care what some CDC phone monkey told her, she should have known better.
If either of you (Pham, Vinson) is reading this, know that MOST of us have the utmost compassion for what you are going through. You didn't ask for it, you didn't agree willingly to become ill, and any suggestions that you are at fault for any of it is beyond cruel.
Specializes in Oncology; medical specialty website.
I do hope both of them get better soon; however I am with the others, if you know you have been exposed to a deadly disease and the incubation can be up to 21 days, why would you choose to fly and put others, including children at risk?! To me a very selfish decision on her part.
Why don't you and your fellow finger-pointers start a separate thread where you can lambaste these two nurses for whatever shortfallings you think they may have committed.
While you're at it, let's open up every aspect of your life, professional and personal, for public scrutiny.
I pray for Nina and Amber for their full recovery and that their heroic sacrifice will be recognized and protect other healthcare workers from being put in harms way. You both are very brave and deserve the best. I don't think I could be as brave as you both!
I applaud Brianna Aguirre the whistle blower as well and wish her the best! Most importantly, I hope this will lead to significant improvements in our preparation and equipment to protect all the healthcare workers that may have an Ebola patient to care for in the future!
Well said!
Sending positive vibes for the two nurses and for the courage for nurses to band together and take back the profession!
This began as a support thread, in case Amber or Nina were online reading...and it went downhill quickly.
I shouldn't be surprised. I've been an RN for 25 years, and have long known that nurses are their own worse enemies.
Lots of 'horizontal violence' in nursing, for example what's going on in this thread.
Horizontal violence (or lateral violence) is displaced violence directed against one's peers rather than one's true adversaries. This construct is used often in explaining minority-on-minority violence in developed nations. Members of low-status ethnic minority groups face greater stresses.
(in other words, gang violence)
Lateral Violence "occurs within marginalized groups where members strike out at each other as a result of being oppressed. The oppressed become the oppressors of themselves and each other. Common behaviours that prevent positive change from occurring include gossiping, bullying, finger-pointing, backstabbing and shunning."
Yes, finger-pointing.
Let's have some compassion FOR OUR COLLEAGUE WHO CONTRACTED EBOLA -- ONE OF THE DEADLIEST AND MOST FEARED DISEASES ON EARTH -- while doing her job. A job that so many of us are afraid we'll be called on to do.
She has a wedding coming up, with all the excitement and planning that goes with it. She cared for a patient following CDC guidelines, without knowing how faulty they were. What should she have done, cancelled her life and isolated herself, in addition to putting her life on the line at work? You THINK that's what you would have done, but I question that. If so, you have NO understanding of human nature and no compassion. In addition, you're perpetuating horizontal violence.
Point your finger where it needs to be pointed -- at the ignorant CDC, who seems to be in lala land about Ebola.
Amber, I support you 100%. Many of us do. Don't listen to the others. May you make a speedy and full recovery! Same to you, Nina! May God bless both of you, today and always, for your selfless service to those afflicted with the most dread disease faced in our world today.
I agree with OCNRN - maybe the OP can ask the mods to remove the posts that bring in other subjects (like above which is off topic) besides what the OP intended? There are many other threads to debate this issue . . .
Look, I don't think either one deserves what she got, and I sincerely hope they both get better and go on to live long, happy lives. I hope Vinson did not infect anyone else. I just found the terminology "highest regard" a little florid. Highest regard is earned by showing an example others should repeat. No one should repeat Vinson's judgement call or subsequent actions. If we are going to learn what not to do and how to contain this disease, we have to be frank about where breakdowns occurred and stress how not to repeat them.
Look, I don't think either one deserves what she got, and I sincerely hope they both get better and go on to live long, happy lives. I hope Vinson did not infect anyone else. I just found the terminology "highest regard" a little florid. Highest regard is earned by showing an example others should repeat. No one should repeat Vinson's judgement call or subsequent actions. If we are going to learn what not to do and how to contain this disease, we have to be frank about where breakdowns occurred and stress how not to repeat them.
But this can be done on the numerous other threads on here.
There is a systematic failure-which I suspect from hospital administration in terms of not instituting proper staffing and PPE, to cuts from the government to the CDC, resulting in providing inaccurate information, the onus is NOT all on these two individuals; even though moving forward, there needs to be a much higher standard to treat individuals, but again, this could be discussed on other threads.
Specializes in Oncology; medical specialty website.
Look, I don't think either one deserves what she got, and I sincerely hope they both get better and go on to live long, happy lives. I hope Vinson did not infect anyone else. I just found the terminology "highest regard" a little florid. Highest regard is earned by showing an example others should repeat. No one should repeat Vinson's judgement call or subsequent actions. If we are going to learn what not to do and how to contain this disease, we have to be frank about where breakdowns occurred and stress how not to repeat them.
Again, why don't you start a separate thread where you can dump on this nurse whom you feel failed to exercise good judgement? I would hope you also mention how the experts in infectious disease mislead her. Or was she supposed to have superior knowledge to theirs?
I don't think it is that black & white about the fever. When I run a temp of 99.5, I KNOW I am sick. Then again, I know my body. Everyone is different. I normally run extremely low temps so any elevation for me, I just KNOW I am sick. I am generally achey, tired, possibly nauseated. I am sick. Personally, I would not need someone from the CDC telling me not to fly. I would be stupid to ignore my own body telling me what I know. My body is trying to fight something.
I take my temperature every morning in order to pinpoint ovulation (for those of you who are unfamiliar, hormone fluctuations during ovulation cause a sustained temp increase during the luteal phase of your cycle). After I ovulate, a temp of 99.5 would not be the least bit alarming, especially after I've been up and moving around.
So let's say that 98.6 is the ideal WNL temp. We would not be at all concerned about a temp of 97.6. So why would we be concerned about a temperature fluctuation of the same amount in the other direction? People will probably say that it's because she was exposed to a deadly virus, and they would be right to be concerned if her temperature was at a level indicative of infection. The point I'm trying to make, though, as a woman also in my 20s who happens to keep very close track of my temperature, is that a woman at this age being at 99.5 doesn't have a temp...it's from running around, hormone fluctuations, and the environmental temperature.
naijanurse
58 Posts
Wishing you both the very best, and THANK YOU and all staff other involved for the care you provided for Thomas Duncan.