Instead of polling whether one is pro-choice or pro-life, I am going to do something different. I will try to use a less emotionally charged and hopefully more accurate terms - For/Against-Legalizing-Abortion (this thought was triggered by another member on this board in the partial abortion poll).
Here is the twist. The poll will ask you your feeling on abortion at different stages of development before the the mother gives birth. We stick to the clinical description so we are going to have zygote, embryo, and fetus. Oh, in the fetus case, the poll also put a special case for partial abortion.
Just so everyone is on the same page, follow are the definition of zyote, embryo, and fetus for the purpose of this poll.
Zygote - From conception to about 2 weeks. Toward the end of the zygote stage, it is probably about a millimeter in diameter. This is the stage before it is completely embedded in the uterine wall.
Embryo - Around week 3 to week 8. It is when the zygote is completely embedded in the uterine wall.
Fetus - Around weeks 9 till just before birth.
You can pick more than one choice in the poll also.
One more thing, when you vote "For", for example, it means you are for legalization abortion at that stage of development under all or most circumstances. If you feel it should not be legalized in most case with one or two exceptions, then pick "Against". If you have exceptions, then state your exceptions in the thread.
What else, when you vote "For" whatever, it just means you are for legalizing it, it does not necessary means you are "pro" it in terms of taking an active role to encourage it. So you may be for legalizing fetus abortion but you might even take an active role to discourage it, but the final decision is up to the person. So this poll is a little bit different, it is asking for "legalizing" it or not, not whether you are "pro" or "anti" abortion.
Against legalizng fetus abortion in all/most cases
For legalizing partial birth abortion in all/most cases
Against legalizing partial birth abortion in all/most cases
Not to split hairs here or anything, you just seem pretty conscientious on not using language that can be considered inflammatory, but keeping it strictly to medical terminology. I give you kudos!! Just FYI there is no procedure known as a partial birth abortion. The medical terminology is:
1.) Intact dilation and extraction (IDX or intact D&X)
2.) Intact dilation and evacuation (intact D&E)
3.)Intrauterine cranial decompression
Birth is the act or process of bearing or bringing forth offspring. What a physician does during the above mentioned procedure has nothing to do with birth, which is a natural, function of the female human body!!!
Once again, thanks for approaching a touchy subject with such a wise approach.
I'm in favor of legalizing zygote and embryo abortions, but even more in favor of increasing access to emergency birth control, access to contraceptives, and accurate and helpful sex ed. I find that many who oppose all forms of abortion actually are helping to increase the abortion rate by also opposing access to contraceptives and better sex education. My basic theory, to put it succinctly, is "less pregnancies = less abortions".
I just want to be clear on the fact that I was a teen mom for two of my four children-i had no money-i was with a severely abusive man- i had to quit school-and they were(at the time) unwanted pregnancies---so i do know what it is like to have to make the tough decision to keep a baby---i did choose life for my children and it has been a long and bumpy road---but i now look at my now two teenagers and could not imagine life without them--sometimes responsibility is the best gift ever. :heartbeat
Well said! Yes it may be difficult, but life is life. You did the best thing you could for your children. You saved their lives. :redbeathe
Well said! Yes it may be difficult, but life is life. You did the best thing you could for your children. You saved their lives. :redbeathe
Yes, what statphleb did was amazing, truly, incredibly amazing. Astonishingly amazing! Incredible!
Too bad it doesn't always turn out like this for teenage mothers with no work skills and an abusive husband. Sometimes the best, most responsible, choice is to wait to bear children. Many, many women and many children do not make it out of this situation alive.
Many women do not feel that they can do this. Many feel that they can. I am thinking that statphleb would not wish her daughter to be pregnant, skilless, and abused. I am sure that she would love her daughter no matter what happened.
I am happy that it is still for us to choose and feel it always should be for us to choose, not our doctors, not our husbands, and, most certainly not our government.
The best thing would be if all our children would be wanted children. We need to get more reliable and better access to birth control, more comprehensive, accurate sex education, and we need for all of our daughters to know their potential both as mothers and as earners, before they make life-altering decisions.
To be honest, while I don't beleive the current climate in most western countries would enable a ban on abortion to be effective, I did select against legalisation of abortion in all circumstances. I refer to myself as Pro-Life, but include being against the death pentalty, euthanasia and embryo stem cell research. Essentially, if it ends a human life, I"m against it. And for me (and science), life begins at conception. The uterine entity is human and anyone who thinks otherwise needs a good lesson in biology.
Of course, we murder is illegal and that still happens, I think a lot of women wouldn't TOP if it was illegal. But it is a complex issue which I think people would just sit down and stop being cowardly and talk about it. I've done too much reading and research on the issue for me to pointedly express my absolute disgust at the whole process.
But I do think its a sad state of affairs when the best society thinks it can do to help women in "crisis pregnancies" is to kill their unborn children. (and you can use the term child to describe the human uterine enity as child is anythign under 12 years and includes the gestational period).
But I want to know, of those nurses who class themselves as Pro-Choice, how many of them do or would work in an abortion clinic? Its one thing I'm sure to support it with your mouth, but how many pro-choice nurses would want to reassemble the bodies of aborted children?
And for me (and science), life begins at conception.
I don't intend to debate against the entirety of your post -- just these few lines.
For science, life is a continuous process. Both the egg and the sperm are living before conception, so it would be inaccurate at best to say that life begins at conception as both components of the conception were previously living.
It would be more accurate to say that new genotypes begin at conception, but this isn't unique to conception, either, for this happens every time a mutation occurs, beneficial, or as is more often the case, detrimental (e.g., cancer).
The uterine entity is human and anyone who thinks otherwise needs a good lesson in biology.
All of your body's cells are human. Point?
But I want to know, of those nurses who class themselves as Pro-Choice, how many of them do or would work in an abortion clinic?
Pro-choice does not equal pro-abortion. I'm pro choice because I'm anti-septicemia and because up until a certain completely arbitrarily decided by me point, a bit of human tissue is a bit of human tissue and, without appealing to supernatural concepts or to emotion, the source or specific location isn't terribly noteworthy to me.
I don't intend to debate against the entirety of your post -- just this one line.
For science, life is a continuous process. Both the egg and the sperm are living before conception, so it would be inaccurate at best to say that life begins at conception as both components of the conception were previously living.
I usually get that reply on abortion debate forums, didn't think I'd have to clarify it on a forum of nurses. So... let me reiterate more clearly - the life of the individual human being begins at conception.
I usually get that reply on abortion debate forums, didn't think I'd have to clarify it on a forum of nurses. So... let me reiterate more clearly - the life of the individual human being begins at conception.
I covered this in the very next line you failed to quote. Conception results in cells with a new genotype-- however, new genotypes aren't unique to conception.
To be honest, while I don't beleive the current climate in most western countries would enable a ban on abortion to be effective, I did select against legalisation of abortion in all circumstances. ...Of course, we murder is illegal and that still happens, I think a lot of women wouldn't TOP if it was illegal. But it is a complex issue which I think people would just sit down and stop being cowardly and talk about it. I've done too much reading and research on the issue for me to pointedly express my absolute disgust at the whole process.
But I do think its a sad state of affairs when the best society thinks it can do to help women in "crisis pregnancies" is to kill their unborn children. (and you can use the term child to describe the human uterine enity as child is anythign under 12 years and includes the gestational period).
But I want to know, of those nurses who class themselves as Pro-Choice, how many of them do or would work in an abortion clinic? Its one thing I'm sure to support it with your mouth, but how many pro-choice nurses would want to reassemble the bodies of aborted children?
You are correct!
Bans on abortion are not effective.
If you would continue your reading and research, you would know that history shows us that what would happen is that our emergency rooms would become even more backed up with septic women who would then die anyway most of the time, because they waited too long to come in. Women would die. Die as in dead or not alive.
The reason most people don't sit down and talk about this is that many people state their opinions as fact, and slip in inflammatory and disrespectful language, and then the yelling starts.
Real courage comes when one can listen to others with a truly open mind and honestly question one's own beliefs in light of new information. If one is not courageous enough to do this, one should try to look for common ground to reach common goals.
I would work in an abortion clinic, even though most front-desk people there are armed in order to protect the staff from those who are "pro-life". I would not "re-assemble" anything, as the products of conception are usually smaller than the period at the end of this sentence. I would leave that to people who want to use embryos or fetuses for political purposes.
Yes, what statphleb did was amazing, truly, incredibly amazing. Astonishingly amazing! Incredible!
Too bad it doesn't always turn out like this for teenage mothers with no work skills and an abusive husband. Sometimes the best, most responsible, choice is to wait to bear children. Many, many women and many children do not make it out of this situation alive.
Many women do not feel that they can do this. Many feel that they can. I am thinking that statphleb would not wish her daughter to be pregnant, skilless, and abused. I am sure that she would love her daughter no matter what happened.
I am happy that it is still for us to choose and feel it always should be for us to choose, not our doctors, not our husbands, and, most certainly not our government.
The best thing would be if all our children would be wanted children. We need to get more reliable and better access to birth control, more comprehensive, accurate sex education, and we need for all of our daughters to know their potential both as mothers and as earners, before they make life-altering decisions.
Yes, it is truly amazing! And good for her for saving their lives........or else she wouldn't have a daughter to worry about. Yes it would be the best thing if all children were wanted...........but there are so many people who do want them...........and I truly believe that life begins at conception. So no matter what, there is a baby growing inside of a pregnant woman, and because it doesn't "work" for her at them time, it's ok to end it's life? That doesn't make any sense to me at all. There are all kinds of horrible situations in life, but at the end, I would hope that my own daughter would do the right thing.....and I would support her all the way there. JMO.
TLAandy
132 Posts
Against legalizng fetus abortion in all/most cases
For legalizing partial birth abortion in all/most cases
Against legalizing partial birth abortion in all/most cases
Not to split hairs here or anything, you just seem pretty conscientious on not using language that can be considered inflammatory, but keeping it strictly to medical terminology. I give you kudos!! Just FYI there is no procedure known as a partial birth abortion. The medical terminology is:
1.) Intact dilation and extraction (IDX or intact D&X)
2.) Intact dilation and evacuation (intact D&E)
3.) Intrauterine cranial decompression
Birth is the act or process of bearing or bringing forth offspring. What a physician does during the above mentioned procedure has nothing to do with birth, which is a natural, function of the female human body!!!
Once again, thanks for approaching a touchy subject with such a wise approach.