I've recently posted about the difficulties of finding employment in NYC. I see multiple commenters mention that being hired is virtually impossible as a new grad. I am not a new grad; however, I find it be ridiculous that new grads are looked down upon. I am still at a loss as to how employers expect for new nurses to have experience without hiring them. I feel the policies and thought process behind this should be questioned. The new grads I work with are usually more invested in the work. Very detailed oriented. They're always eager to go above and beyond and usually error on the side of caution. The "experienced" ones may be nonchalant about situations that require investigation, they usually don't take the extra step, they're stuck in their ways, etc. I've noticed that they're so used to a routine that they bypass steps sometimes and that one off time may be the time they make an error. I've witnessed the after effects!
I think this whole no new grads thing is another way of corporations attempting to save money by decreasing the amount of orientation time, classes, and certifications. This is getting out of hand in my opinion. There will forever be a shortage in nursing as long as these politics of health care aren't challenged.?
Of course! I just feel it’s not fair for people to have to leave their homes, family, friends, etc to find a job that’ll pay them just the same give or take a dollar or two. Shouldn’t have to uproot their lives for a year or 2 years to come back home just to make one dollar more. Maybe.
I mean...people relocate for education and jobs all the time in other fields, that’s not really an uncommon thing to do. My siblings and I all went to non-local colleges and I moved out of state after I graduated after my first degree to live somewhere with a better COL. Relocating certainly isn’t a small task and is definitely more of a project if you own a home or have small children, working partners, extended family you provide care for etc but it’s not unheard of especially for a “typical” new graduate who went to college directly from high school and graduates in their early 20s.
No one is entitled a job; however, I believe it is silly for an employer to turn away an ASN new grad whom may be actually well qualified to hit the ground running for a BSN holder. Unfortunately, people are getting jobs in high population areas BECAUSE of who they know and not what they know. I know several people who have been overlooked for employment opportunities with years of RN experience, as well as holding MSNs for new grads. Sometimes it is who you know...the politics of health care currently is becoming out of control. Maybe a decade or so ago, experience mattered. Doesn't matter anymore. What matters now is what will save the company money, which from a business standpoint is very strategic!
LOL, so is the problem that no one hires new grads or that they hire new grads over experienced nurses sometimes?
I got my first job through networking- I joined the professional organization for the specialty I was interested and went to a chapter meeting and met the manager and director of the unit I ended up getting hired on. I applied to hundreds of jobs (literally, I kept track) and this was my sole job offer. After I was working there I referred a student who I’d gotten to know and helped out who graduated behind me in my program who ended up getting hired as well. And with my current job, I happened to have a previous colleague working here already and I absolutely reached out to him and asked him to put in a good word for me. Networking and using your contacts is an important tool to use when job hunting, it’s not something sinister, and it’s helpful for new grads and those with more experience.
I’ve precepted a ton of new grads and their speed of learning seems more related to their individual abilities and learning habits than the degree they graduated with.
I think there's DEFINITELY a fairly recent phenomenon that's affecting hiring opp'ties for new grads.
What makes a new grad any BETTER than an experienced, seasoned nurse? I don't see anything and I think employers don't see anything either. A new grad needs prolonged orientation just to become basically functional. That's bottom line and that's time and money for the employer. A drain on the facility's budget bottom line.
PP mmc51264 touches upon this. Many new grads are freq seeking those golden-fleece jobs in the coveted ICU/OR/NICU positions for that benchmark 1 year experience as they plan advanced education for advanced practice roles. Even new grads in alternative non-hosp settings aren't planning for any long-term front-line employment. Even if they don't say so outright, it seems this is now becoming the new norm. So after that short year or so, they're up & gone like a puff of smoke in the wind. All that employer time & effort spent on cultivating a good employee has been for naught. That's money WASTED on a new grad. That's pretty much the logic for those mandatory hiring contracts that are becoming quite common. Those contracts try to protect the employers' investments.
That seems to be a current modus operandi these days for so many newbies. Even the 'older new grads' often exhibit resumes full of freq job switches. So if an employer has a selection of applicants to choose from a pool of prospective employees, who do you think will be chosen? Potentially flighty newbie grad or established, experienced nurse with solid past job history of years at one facility at a time?
Cardi - you also bring up some other points that influence not only employers expectations, but also that of new nurses' preferences.
22 hours ago, CardiTeleRN said:
Of course! I just feel it’s not fair for people to have to leave their homes, family, friends, etc to find a job that’ll pay them just the same give or take a dollar or two. Shouldn’t have to uproot their lives for a year or 2 years to come back home just to make one dollar more. Maybe.
So where do you propose that these new nurses get those first jobs? There are just so few limited avail open positions - other positions are all filled. You just can't 'bump out' the others already in those positions. So you go where the jobs are open and that are willing to hire you.
Also there is that population of new nurses who decline off-shift positions while holding out for the day-shift only. And you want to make any guess how many recent newbie hires will be scheduled to work this upcoming Thanksgiving AND Christmas??? That's going to be one h*ll of a disappointment. I can hear the moaning & groaning now! Who do you propose to fill all those shifts? And when hurricanes & blizzards hit?
New grads HAVE NOT made themselves especially attractive to employers in the avail job pool from which employers can pick & choose. They are just soooo expensive for any realistic long-term investment; they're unrealistically expecting special accommodations. They say, 'oh, but it's not fair!' Nobody ever said it was. And what makes it MORE fair for that new grad than for another nurse? That's smacks of feelings of privilege and entitlement. A slippery slope!
As PP Hiddencat commented, connections and networking also serve as successful tools. Sometimes it's the only one advantage to tip the scales for any new grad/exp nurse. Invaluable if you've someone on your side.
There's no real shortage of nurses. Maybe lopsided supply & demand issues. It's an employer's market - they have the upper-hand. Esp in these times. You just have to smartly play with the cards that are dealt.
Of course! I just feel it’s not fair for people to have to leave their homes, family, friends, etc to find a job that’ll pay them just the same give or take a dollar or two. Shouldn’t have to uproot their lives for a year or 2 years to come back home just to make one dollar more. Maybe.
I graduated in 2011. Couldn’t find a job in the big metropolitan city that I grew up in. The hospitals all wanted nurses with at least a year of experience, and long term care facilities weren’t too eager to take on a new grad.
So I went where I could find a job. I landed a job in a rural facility and moved to the small town the facility was located in. After I had some experience under my belt, I was able to land a job back in an urban setting.
It wasn’t fair, no, but life isn’t fair. I wasn’t entitled to a job in the city I grew up just because I lived there. If I didn’t move, I wouldn’t have the career I have now. There’s nothing stopping new grads from staying put where they are and holding out for a job the same way there’s nothing stopping employers from preferring to hire experienced nurses over new grads.
Of course! I just feel it’s not fair for people to have to leave their homes, family, friends, etc to find a job that’ll pay them just the same give or take a dollar or two. Shouldn’t have to uproot their lives for a year or 2 years to come back home just to make one dollar more. Maybe.
I agree, but at the same time understand that everyone should evaluate the job market in their area. Regardless of career path
I doubt that any new nurse comes out of school ready to hit the ground running — now, or in times of yore. Nursing is learned through experience and guidance.
Many years ago (15-20 or more) we did hit the ground running. There weren't the long residency programs. We were given a few days to a week to fill out forms, learn location of supplies, and p&p, then on our way. But back then, we had more clinical hours it seems. I remember spending 3-4 12hr days a week in clinicals every semester, 1-2 classroom days. Nowadays, the students I meet, do 1-2 8 hour days in clinical and 1 classroom day. I know it varies by state/school, but it just seems like less clinic time spent at hospitals. Before my time in school, there were diploma programs that the students had almost all learning in the hospital setting. My own mother, who graduated in 1965, and passed boards 1/1966, lived on the hospital grounds, service to the hospital (clinicals) paid room and board. It was a requirement back then. Those nurses could definitely hit the ground running!
Hoosier - I was soooo envious of those diploma grads. They truly did hit the floors running. But I also envied their schools' heritage/legacies. Couple of my local ones were over 100 years old and those schools were PRIMO/top of the chain in nurse respect by hospitals, physicians, gen'l public and even other working peers.
Hoosier - I was soooo envious of those diploma grads. They truly did hit the floors running. But I also envied their schools' heritage/legacies. Couple of my local ones were over 100 years old and those schools were PRIMO/top of the chain in nurse respect by hospitals, physicians, gen'l public and even other working peers.
I went to my mom's retirement party. Drs-many retired, retired nurses, many working nurses, many administration/execs-again many retired, came. They talked about awe and respect for that generation. The diploma schools in my hometown were well respected. I will add, I lived with my grandparents while mom in nursing school (weren't supposed to have kids, she just omitted that fact, and luckily never caught), dad in Vietnam. They weren't supposed to be married because of obligations, etc. But I guess since he was overseas, they made an exception. Times have definitely changed for nursing
Fair has nothing to do with this. Nobody is entitled to a job when and where they want it.
I agree with this, and it has nothing to do with nursing. When you grow up and graduate from any type of school, it is very common to need to (and many want to!) move away from home in order to start your career. My husband is a lawyer. He graduated and immediately flew all over the US interviewing for jobs. Now, ten years into his career, he would be able to get a job at a firm near his hometown if he wanted to. But right after graduation? No, he had to go where the desirable jobs were.
Hoosier_RN, you mentioned the rigorous clinical preparation that nurses received in school.
I didn’t know that. That sounds as rigorous as residency. A nurse would be able to hit the ground running, but I wonder if nurses now are learning more about the how and why of what their doing. Do you think nurses of today are being trained to be smarter than nurses were 30 years ago?
Hoosier_RN, you mentioned the rigorous clinical preparation that nurses received in school.
I didn’t know that. That sounds as rigorous as residency. A nurse would be able to hit the ground running, but I wonder if nurses now are learning more about the how and why of what their doing. Do you think nurses of today are being trained to be smarter than nurses were 30 years ago?
No, because we had that then as well. We were taught how's, why's, and when's so that we could take care of any situation from the time we got those letters behind our names. Yes, technologies have changed, contents of body of knowledge is different, but theory is same. I'm not sure I worded that exactly right, but I'm sure that you know what I'm talking about. I feel sorry for students now, because I feel like they are getting the short end of the stick educationwise. But there's a whole other thread on here regarding that. Actually multiple
Adding-I've taught nursing. Care is care. Technologies, medications, and terminology changes, but at the end of the day, care is care. I've seen so many nowadays who can't think to the next step without hand holding. To me, it's very concerning. But again, other threads on that subject
Many years ago (15-20 or more) we did hit the ground running. There weren't the long residency programs. We were given a few days to a week to fill out forms, learn location of supplies, and p&p, then on our way. But back then, we had more clinical hours it seems. I remember spending 3-4 12hr days a week in clinicals every semester, 1-2 classroom days. Nowadays, the students I meet, do 1-2 8 hour days in clinical and 1 classroom days. I know it varies by state/school, but it just seems like less clinic time spent at hospitals. Before my time in school, there were diploma programs that the students had almost all learning in the hospital setting. My own mother, who graduated in 1965, and passed boards 1/1966, lived on the hospital grounds, service to the hospital (clinicals) paid room and board. It was a requirement back then. Those nurses could definitely hit the ground running!
Valid point! This is what I mean! This is why I say associates are better than bachelors. Associate degrees spend more time in the clinical setting than classroom like bachelors which is why I don’t understand why acute care facilities are phasing out associates.
HiddencatBSN, BSN
594 Posts
I mean...people relocate for education and jobs all the time in other fields, that’s not really an uncommon thing to do. My siblings and I all went to non-local colleges and I moved out of state after I graduated after my first degree to live somewhere with a better COL. Relocating certainly isn’t a small task and is definitely more of a project if you own a home or have small children, working partners, extended family you provide care for etc but it’s not unheard of especially for a “typical” new graduate who went to college directly from high school and graduates in their early 20s.