Need some help/recommendations following removal from nursing school

tvccrn, ASN, RN · Mar 12, 2010

Well to me I connect "enough" dots to be safe and effective. Just because I do not see what they "see" doesn't mean I am unsafe, I just think on a different level then they do. I just don't understand how that can be predicted as being "unsafe" when one of the instructors has NEVER had a clinical with me...
Nursing school is stressful anyways and to add on to this; it is just mind BOGGLING. What they want students to pick up on is stuff that was present in the 80's and I hate to say that but this is 2010 and things do change. For instance the H&H they now recommend a 9.5/27 through MEDICAL studies.
I just have no clue......

I realize that this situation has come to a sort of resolution, but I do have to point something out. The example you gave had an H&H of 9 & 29, then you bring up the fact that medical studies recommend an H&H of 9.5 & 27. So one half is fine and the other one is low.

Which one does that facility look at? That could be one of the "dots" that you are missing. I have worked at facilities that look at the hemoglobin rather than the hematocrit and others where it was the other way around.

Also in the other example you gave, you didn't follow the ABC's. One poster said something to the effect of circulation was first unles you were on your psych rotation. Not so, circulation is ALWAYS more important than psych issues. Without circulation, the psych will "cured" eventually.

Lala27poodles · Mar 12, 2010

Talk to another nursing school, and try to transfer if at all possible.

I wouldn't give that school another dime of my money, they sound unreasonable.

However, that being said.....don't NOT learn from this. Take something positive away from it. Learn that your opinion, while in nursing school, does not mean jack squat to anyone right now. They would rather see that you can follow direction rather than do what you think (and might be) best. Just suck it up, and do what you know will make them happy.

HyperSaurus, RN, BSN · Mar 12, 2010

... One poster said something to the effect of circulation was first unles you were on your psych rotation. Not so, circulation is ALWAYS more important than psych issues. Without circulation, the psych will "cured" eventually.

I haven't had psych yet, so I wasn't sure if the ABCs still applied. Thanks. :)

mlb69 · Mar 12, 2010

Well I do not understand how I did not follow the "ABC's". If the circulation was compromised, which it was as a direct result of his blood pressure falling turning white as a ghost and sweating perfusly, my nursing diagnoses of fluid volume deficit fits. IT does not matter in my book what type of "psych" issues he has or has had but at the current time if you do not fix this specific deficit he is not going to see another day.... Is this the right train of thought here?

NurseAdida · Mar 12, 2010

Well I do not understand how I did not follow the "ABC's". If the circulation was compromised, which it was as a direct result of his blood pressure falling turning white as a ghost and sweating perfusly, my nursing diagnoses of fluid volume deficit fits. IT does not matter in my book what type of "psych" issues he has or has had but at the current time if you do not fix this specific deficit he is not going to see another day.... Is this the right train of thought here?

Precisely! Follow ABCs and Maslow's Hierachy...

Congratulations on your acceptance back to school by the way.

Just remember to stay humble, listen to your instructor, don't challenge him/her. Know your labs...

Funny they picked on you (male student). In my school (3 yrs ago) male nursing students were favored and treated a lot differently and my nursing school did everything to keep them in the program.

Good luck!!!

nursemike, ASN, RN · Mar 12, 2010

I just wish that this had gone down a more politically correct way b/c frankly, I am scared. If they can just about throw a student out for a "bias" that is totally undocumented then they can just about do anything in my book...

From following this thread, I would say you have some legitimate concerns. I'd suggest scheduling an appointment with the head of the department to discuss those concerns. If they are taking you back just so they can "follow protocols" and chuck you out again, it would be foolish to give them the opportunity. I would emphasize that you've worked hard and intend to continue to do so, but that if their agenda is anything other than teaching you how to be an effective nurse, your attorney is convinced you won't have any problem funding your studies at some other institution.

It isn't wrong of them to say you have certain responsibilities you are expected to fulfill. But it's supposed to be a two-way street.

ETA: I'd certainly want to know whether it would be possible to continue with a different clinical instructor.

mlb69 · Mar 13, 2010

My argument is right vs. wrong; these instructors had an "agenda" of their own (in my opinion) and I HONESTLY believe that if I do not make a STAND then this same practice will continue to many other fellow nursing students. Times have changed so why can't the cruelty of what nursing students are put through change also? I mean nursing is supposed to be a compassionate, caring profession but day in and day out I personally receive nothing but the 5th degree. If these instructors REALLY cared about the profession they would leave this "bias" alone that both of them have. OH by the way, did I mention that one of MY instructors said I was unsafe without even having a SINGLE clinical with me? How unprofessional is that especially coming from an instructor? In the hospital setting you say that about someone and that is considered slander and is a fired offense on the spot at any local hospitals and possible civil litigation on top of that.

I am absolutely not going to finish out my degree at that college and I have thought this over and I do honestly believe that if a civil suit does not come from this these teachers are not going to get reprimanded. In all honesty, I would not be too "sad" to see them fired but I am better than that. I do not want them to loose their jobs but I do want a course of action taken against them so they understand "their" agenda is absolutely no place in any school of nursing. The agenda should be frankly us the students and preparing us to be the best possible that they could not be; maybe teach them from some of the mistakes they have made etc... I just found out that one of my instructors almost killed a patient by giving them 25k units of heparin and tried to blame it on someone else... Go figure; talk about being unsafe.....

At this point there are many many more options that I have and I am just waiting for these options to get cleared next week. As of right now this program has not earned my trust back from the actions they are doing and frankly I just do not know if this trust can ever be regained.

What do all of you think? Is this a "fair" course of action?

nursemike, ASN, RN · Mar 13, 2010

I can see where you're coming from, and I'd be leery of trusting them, myself, so taking it to court is certainly one option and doesn't seem particularly unfair.

As far as right vs. wrong, that's very often not as clear as it seems, and that's as true in nursing as anywhere. To be successful as a nurse, you'll have to be able to weigh some nuances objectively and with an open mind. Not saying you haven't, here, but you'll run into a lot that isn't black and white--I did several times, just last night, although most were relatively small matters and not great ethical dilemmas. As for your particular situation, we really can't know what your instructors based their decision on. It sounds fishy, for sure, but I can't honestly say an instructor couldn't judge you as unsafe without having you for clinicals. Theoretically, evidence such as the other instructor's reports and your careplans, and any documentation you did, could justify that decision.

On the whole, it seems to me that if events were as you described--and I have no reason to doubt you--the burden is on them to persuade you that you can get a fair opportunity with them. If they can't, it would make sense to go somewhere else, and you might as well get some payback, if you can. They have taken your money and your time, and the money, at least, is replaceable.

netglow, ASN, RN · Mar 13, 2010

OP, reality check.

- It is hard to find people who want to teach. Nursing instructors do not make a lot of money. Schools take who they can, and are not quick to remove instructors because they would have to find replacements, and if not done fast, would have to cut enrollment which means less $.

- Do you have a corporate background? If so, like me, you are learning that although dangerous, healthcare often does not require professional behavior. People do not lose their jobs for this type of thing (and for worse things). You can rant all you want. It won't happen.

- You need to finish your RN. It is always best to finish up with the devil you know vs. starting in the middle with one you don't know. You will find that you will graduate, and then pass the NCLEX, and so break your ties with your college. Trust me, when I tell you that you are not such the lightening rod you think you are. Once graduated, you will no longer be a passing thought for your college.

mlb69 · Mar 14, 2010

2ndwind you are ABSOLUTELY CORRECT!!!

My final decision is to go back and honestly put this behind me. I will work hard to get through and finish. More details need to be ironed out but I feel we can come to an agreement to where they will allow this. I just hate missing lecture time as our lectures are 4-5 hours and you miss one class you are WAY WAY behind!! Yes I am a week behind schedule, 3 tests behind, but I can catch up relatively quickly.

I think I have made enough of a "stink" about this whole process that I am beating a dead horse now.

So THANK YOU EVERYONE for being objective and explaining some of the "dots" that I seem not to get. I took everything objectively and it really pointed out to me a few things I do need to work on.

Wish me LUCK!!

MLB69

KaseyP · Mar 14, 2010

MLB69,

I just read this post in its entirety and i am flabbergasted at what you've experienced and I'm not even in nursing school as of yet!! Please keep in touch and let us know how the rest of the nursing program goes for you, and I hope for your sake that these two instructors have been repremanded in some fashion and have been made aware, on some level, that you can not choose to just dismiss someone because they think a little differrently. Have they never heard of diversity of thought? Maybe your thinking outside of the proverbial box just simply could not be comprehended by the two. But for many of those here who have read your post, we're pulling for you and good luck!

-KaseyP

helikias · Mar 14, 2010

I think you should have caught the anemia as well, but I also think you are being treated extremely unfairly. Being told you "don't think like a nurse" and "your brain is not wired to be a nurse" is not only quite bizarre, it is unprofessional on the school's part and, since it is not a statement based on provable facts (beyond the one incident), it is potentially illegal as well. And frankly, it is insulting.

You should follow your attorney's advice. I wish you the best.