Need some help/recommendations following removal from nursing school

~Mi Vida Loca~RN, ASN, RN · Mar 26, 2010

I understand that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but when I pay good money for a service, I expect to be satisfied. I do not have a sense of entitlement nor do I treat my instructors as though they were my endentured servants. I consider my education to be a contract between myself and the institution that I choose to attend. I pay the institution for an education, that's my end of the bargain, and the institution provides me with the best education and instructors that my money can buy. You can take my opinion anyway you want, but to insinuate that my attitude towards a below average instructor is in any way derrogatory to all instructors is just obtuse. I have had many insructors who have gone above and beyond in their teachings, but that is not what this thread was about...It was about a gentlman who was dismissed from a program because his instructors no longer wanted to have him in their class! He did nothing to excuse the misguided, ill-attemped malfeasance of these two teachers and as a result,was re-instated back into the program! And further on in this thread, other students also have had similar experiences. I have been around long enough to be able to notice when I see an individual who is burned out, hates their job and forgets why they decided to go down the career path that they chose for themselves in the first place..it is at this point that an individual needs to ask themselves: " Am I really making a difference anymore and am I still impacting others in a positive way?" I don't care what profession you're in, once you have acquired a skill, then you apply that skill and use it to the best of your ability and make it a fulfilling experience, not only to those that you may impact on a daily basis, but also to yourself!

My statement was a general statement about what I saw in your post and see on these boards and in life as well. I thought I made that clear, it was not a direct attack on you personally, but my feelings on the things you said. Just like I could have sworn I made it a point to say their are always bad apples. I know what this post is about, I have responded to it since it was first made. My post above was in regards to YOUR post though, it was not directed to the OP.

What I bolded above, if you feel that paying your tuition is the end of YOUR end of the contract, that right there is a problem. In my opinion of course. Might as well say, I sent my child to school, it's their responsibility to educate and mold them and I shouldn't have to do anything, I paid for the car that was all I needed to do when fact is, if you don't maintain it you will run into problems. No, that isn't all that needs to be done. As a student, you, (again, you is being used general here) have more to do then simply paying your tuition. What you get from school is up to you. IN MOST CASES.

What kind of statement do you think "I pay your salary, you work for me!" sends? Honestly? It's one of the most cringe worthy statements I hear.

klone, MSN, RN · Mar 26, 2010

this is a low H&H no where near extra volume

Dilutional anemia. Normal in a pregnant person.

klone, MSN, RN · Mar 26, 2010

I agree with others that in nursing school, you have to play the game, and nursing school often does not mirror "real world" nursing. In a real L&D, a hemoglobin of 9 would be inconsequential. More important would be the fact that the mother is carrying a high risk pregnancy with a possible fetal demise.

In nursing school, it's all about ABCs and Maslow. Play the game. Tell them the answer they WANT, not necessarily the "real world" right answer.

Good luck. You remind me a lot of my husband.

KaseyP · Mar 26, 2010

Mi Vida Loca,

Look, I'm not going to argue with you, that is not my intention. However, my opinions are in reference to this gentleman's experience!!! And no, it does not end with my payment submission for desired course of study...I feel that if the money is coming directly out of your pocket, you're going to work as hard as you possibly can to get that degree. I'm not talking about children fresh out of high school that view college as a good time at the expense of their parent's pocketbook, I'm talking about responsible individuals paying for their own education to achieve their desired goals. Maybe you should reference someone else' passage, because you have clearly taken a passage that makes sense to me and so many others on here out of the proverbial context in which it was written.

carolinapooh, BSN, RN · Mar 26, 2010

I hate to say it, but at some point, it does come down to the almighty dollar: my husband and I forked out bucks for my nursing education and you can bet every last buck I expected to be "scholastically reimbursed" for our hard-earned cash money. For the amount we forked out, I had certain expectations and I certainly expected them to be met.

The amount's not what's important - because ANYONE who lays out money for a nursing education is entitled to the same treatment: professionalism from the instructors and the ability to pass boards (and practice safely, of course, with a minimum level of knowledge) upon graduation. If you get neither, you've been shortchanged.

(I'm not talking about people who find they can't complete the work, and I'm not impugning them either. I'm talking about people who can do the work, are doing the work, and are getting treated like crap for no reason. We've all seen it because it's everywhere.)

At the end of the day, the instructors do work for you - while they're not there to do you any favors (and neither, by the same extension, are you), they ARE there to give you the education you paid for. Regardless of the price tag - whether you went to Duke or to a small community college, you laid out money (hard won these days, to be sure) and expect a certain level of professionalism - and a certain level of expertise - in return.

I'm an RN in the USAF. I work for a lot of people - Congress, the taxpayers, my patients (who are for the most part taxpayers, or have been!), my superiors, the hospital, the Wing Commander, and those I outrank. A lot is expected of me. I work for my patients every day when I go to work, and they're all entitled to the same sort of treatment from me. And every day I put on that uniform (and essentially I'm in it 24/7!) I work for EVERYONE on this board. You're paying me, I have fabulous benefits as a result. But I never, ever lose sight of the fact that at the end of the day, I'm working for all of you just as hard as I work for my patients. YOU are the ones paying my salary, my rent, and for the groceries in my kitchen. You're even paying for my husband's health care, for some of his education, and for him to be moved with me every time the AF says it's time for us to go (and he does appreciate it, BTW). YOU expect things of me as an AF member (to follow the rules, to carry out/follow/give orders, to essentially behave as though I know what I'm doing - sometimes you gotta remind folks of that! - and to look out for those I outrank, among other things) whether you're my patient or not, and you're perfectly right to expect it. You're footing the bill. I do something stupid and get myself kicked out, you, the taxpayer, have every right to be p*ssed off, whether you know it or not. I just wasted thousands of your hard-earned dollars. I work for you and you expect better. My job is to deliver.

Yes, that's flag-waving a bit, but hey, it's what I do (literally for a living!) - and I'm trying to use that to make my point. Instructors have a job to carry out. When they blow it, they've just wasted someone's money. They've failed in their expectations and didn't deliver on their promise.

That's not a sense of entitlement. It's got nothing to do with entitlement. I think that's the way the world works, regardless of what's being purchased. And an education is the most valuable purchase a person makes.

And on a bit of a side note - but still related - the joke in the military is we've got "Property of the US Government" tattooed on our posteriors. I actually think of that as "Property of the American People".

caliotter3 · Mar 26, 2010

I hate to say it, but at some point, it does come down to the almighty dollar: my husband and I forked out bucks for my nursing education and you can bet every last buck I expected to be "scholastically reimbursed" for our hard-earned cash money. For the amount we forked out, I had certain expectations and I certainly expected them to be met.
The amount's not what's important - because ANYONE who lays out money for a nursing education is entitled to the same treatment: professionalism from the instructors and the ability to pass boards (and practice safely, of course, with a minimum level of knowledge) upon graduation. If you get neither, you've been shortchanged.
(I'm not talking about people who find they can't complete the work, and I'm not impugning them either. I'm talking about people who can do the work, are doing the work, and are getting treated like crap for no reason. We've all seen it because it's everywhere.)
At the end of the day, the instructors do work for you - while they're not there to do you any favors (and neither, by the same extension, are you), they ARE there to give you the education you paid for. Regardless of the price tag - whether you went to Duke or to a small community college, you laid out money (hard won these days, to be sure) and expect a certain level of professionalism - and a certain level of expertise - in return.
I'm an RN in the USAF. I work for a lot of people - Congress, the taxpayers, my patients (who are for the most part taxpayers, or have been!). A lot is expected of me. I work for my patients every day when I go to work, and they're all entitled to the same sort of treatment from me. And every day I put on that uniform (and essentially I'm in it 24/7!) I work for EVERYONE on this board. You're paying me, I have fabulous benefits as a result. But I never, ever lose sight of the fact that at the end of the day, I'm working for all of you just as hard as I work for my patients. YOU are the ones paying my salary, my rent, and for the groceries in my kitchen. YOU expect things of me as an AF member whether you're my patient or not, and you're perfectly right to expect it. You're footing the bill.
Yes, that's flag-waving a bit, but hey, it's what I do (literally for a living!) - and I'm trying to use that to make my point.
That's not a sense of entitlement. It's got nothing to do with entitlement. I think that's the way the world works, regardless of what's being purchased. And an education is the most valuable purchase a person makes.

Very well said.

~Mi Vida Loca~RN, ASN, RN · Mar 26, 2010

Mi Vida Loca,
Look, I'm not going to argue with you, that is not my intention. However, my opinions are in reference to this gentleman's experience!!! And no, it does not end with my payment submission for desired course of study...I feel that if the money is coming directly out of your pocket, you're going to work as hard as you possibly can to get that degree. I'm not talking about children fresh out of high school that view college as a good time at the expense of their parent's pocketbook, I'm talking about responsible individuals paying for their own education to achieve their desired goals. Maybe you should reference someone else' passage, because you have clearly taken a passage that makes sense to me and so many others on here out of the proverbial context in which it was written.

I wasn't trying to argue either, I thought I was participating in a discussion. My bad

You will find that anytime you post on a message board, numerous people might have opinions on it, some you may like, some you may not. Some spark some great discussions. I wouldn't be so quick to label the college kids fresh out of high school either with their parents maybe helping with the cost. Some parents do in fact raise their children with the right tools to work hard for things and understand the value of money. Although it seems to be getting more rare, I have met many fresh out of high school, very dedicated and focused nursing students that have parents footing the bill.

My class also just lost a student, a woman in her mid 30's, previous engineering degree at a very expensive engineering school (that her parents paid for and that after getting it and working a year she decided she didn't want to do that),is a mother to 2 kids, has a husband, lives in a very very nice house and area of town. She almost failed first semester, made it by 1 point. Just failed out of our class for second semester. Guess what I was shocked to find out. Not only did her parents pay for her first degree, they were paying for her nursing school as well. They will also pay when she starts back up in the fall. Found out when she was throwing a fit that they told her she might have to pay for her last semester herself, as they were having financial difficulties, she was going on how it wasn't fair since they already said they would pay for it. This is a woman that lives a very comfy lifestyle and should be more then capable of paying her own nursing tuition at a community college. But it just shows, age doesn't always factor into responsibility and working hard for things :)

~Mi Vida Loca~RN, ASN, RN · Mar 26, 2010

I hate to say it, but at some point, it does come down to the almighty dollar: my husband and I forked out bucks for my nursing education and you can bet every last buck I expected to be "scholastically reimbursed" for our hard-earned cash money. For the amount we forked out, I had certain expectations and I certainly expected them to be met.
The amount's not what's important - because ANYONE who lays out money for a nursing education is entitled to the same treatment: professionalism from the instructors and the ability to pass boards (and practice safely, of course, with a minimum level of knowledge) upon graduation. If you get neither, you've been shortchanged.
(I'm not talking about people who find they can't complete the work, and I'm not impugning them either. I'm talking about people who can do the work, are doing the work, and are getting treated like crap for no reason. We've all seen it because it's everywhere.)
At the end of the day, the instructors do work for you - while they're not there to do you any favors (and neither, by the same extension, are you), they ARE there to give you the education you paid for. Regardless of the price tag - whether you went to Duke or to a small community college, you laid out money (hard won these days, to be sure) and expect a certain level of professionalism - and a certain level of expertise - in return.
I'm an RN in the USAF. I work for a lot of people - Congress, the taxpayers, my patients (who are for the most part taxpayers, or have been!), my superiors, the hospital, the Wing Commander, and those I outrank. A lot is expected of me. I work for my patients every day when I go to work, and they're all entitled to the same sort of treatment from me. And every day I put on that uniform (and essentially I'm in it 24/7!) I work for EVERYONE on this board. You're paying me, I have fabulous benefits as a result. But I never, ever lose sight of the fact that at the end of the day, I'm working for all of you just as hard as I work for my patients. YOU are the ones paying my salary, my rent, and for the groceries in my kitchen. You're even paying for my husband's health care, for some of his education, and for him to be moved with me every time the AF says it's time for us to go (and he does appreciate it, BTW). YOU expect things of me as an AF member (to follow the rules, to carry out/follow/give orders, to essentially behave as though I know what I'm doing - sometimes you gotta remind folks of that! - and to look out for those I outrank, among other things) whether you're my patient or not, and you're perfectly right to expect it. You're footing the bill. I do something stupid and get myself kicked out, you, the taxpayer, have every right to be p*ssed off, whether you know it or not. I just wasted thousands of your hard-earned dollars. I work for you and you expect better. My job is to deliver.
Yes, that's flag-waving a bit, but hey, it's what I do (literally for a living!) - and I'm trying to use that to make my point. Instructors have a job to carry out. When they blow it, they've just wasted someone's money. They've failed in their expectations and didn't deliver on their promise.
That's not a sense of entitlement. It's got nothing to do with entitlement. I think that's the way the world works, regardless of what's being purchased. And an education is the most valuable purchase a person makes.
And on a bit of a side note - but still related - the joke in the military is we've got "Property of the US Government" tattooed on our posteriors. I actually think of that as "Property of the American People".

I absolutely agree when you are paying for your education, you deserve a good education. Having the "I pay your salary, you work for me." mentality while not looking at what you also should be doing, I have a problem with. What the OP described, is absolutely not ok.

Aside from that, horrible teachers have been rare that I have seen. In fact I can only think of one in all the college classes I have taken, (which have been a great many) that was truly a despicable teacher. I have seen a lot of students gripe and complain about teachers though and their program while not putting in their part. They want every thing spoon fed to them while having no personal responsibility. Teachers can only do so much, if the student isn't willing to put in an effort and do stuff as well, they won't make it.

Nurses are huge on educating patients, now, patients pay their salary, (at the end of the day) whether it be self pay, Ins. or what not. Yes they're exceptions, just like for college they're grants and scholarships students might get. A patient can come in with uncontrollable type 2 diabetes, they can shout at you that they pay your salary you need to make them better. You can educate them on all the modifiers they can do to help get their diabetes under control or maybe even stop it. You can teach and teach and teach until your blue in the face. You are doing your job, you are doing what they are paying you to do. At the end of the day though, unless they are willing to self reflect and start being proactive in their own care, they will not make it.

Students need to also be proactive in their own education. The previous poster stated that if a student was smart enough to get into nursing school, they are smart enough to finish and if they don't, you need to look at the instructors. Really??? Every person that gets into nursing school is cut out to make it as a nurse? We shouldn't have minimum grades, everyone should pass because they got accepted and if they don't it must be the fault of the teacher? Sorry, I can't go with that.

Now if MAJORITY of the students weren't passing, then I would say HMMMMM what is going on.

THIS is the point I am making.

dura_mater · Mar 27, 2010

A patient can come in with uncontrollable type 2 diabetes, they can shout at you that they pay your salary you need to make them better. You can educate them on all the modifiers they can do to help get their diabetes under control or maybe even stop it. You can teach and teach and teach until your blue in the face. You are doing your job, you are doing what they are paying you to do. At the end of the day though, unless they are willing to self reflect and start being proactive in their own care, they will not make it.
Students need to also be proactive in their own education. The previous poster stated that if a student was smart enough to get into nursing school, they are smart enough to finish and if they don't, you need to look at the instructors. Really??? Every person that gets into nursing school is cut out to make it as a nurse? We shouldn't have minimum grades, everyone should pass because they got accepted and if they don't it must be the fault of the teacher? Sorry, I can't go with that.
Now if MAJORITY of the students weren't passing, then I would say HMMMMM what is going on.
THIS is the point I am making.

I totally agree, great point!

KaseyP · Mar 27, 2010

Mi Vida Loca,

Really??? Every person that gets into nursing school is cut out to make it as a nurse? We shouldn't have minimum grades, everyone should pass because they got accepted and if they don't it must be the fault of the teacher? Sorry, I can't go with that.

Now if MAJORITY of the students weren't passing, then I would say HMMMMM what is going on.

THIS is the point I am making.

Look, the nursing program is so competitive that naturally, I would assume that all of us have a GPA of 3.5 or above, which should wean out these types of students you are referring to. I know nothing about your college nor do I care to, but you can't get into my school's program unless you have a gpa of 3.7 or above. So, why wouldn't I assume that you're intelligable enough to hack the program??? Yes, there are a few who don't make it or have what it takes, but again, this post is dedicated to the gentleman who already has a medical background and he knows a great deal through experience in his current field of study to be able to make it through the program! Again, you've made this personal and I'm beginning to think your sign in name says it all about who you are, but that's just my opinion!

~Mi Vida Loca~RN, ASN, RN · Mar 27, 2010

Mi Vida Loca,
Really??? Every person that gets into nursing school is cut out to make it as a nurse? We shouldn't have minimum grades, everyone should pass because they got accepted and if they don't it must be the fault of the teacher? Sorry, I can't go with that.
Now if MAJORITY of the students weren't passing, then I would say HMMMMM what is going on.

THIS is the point I am making.
Look, the nursing program is so competitive that naturally, I would assume that all of us have a GPA of 3.5 or above, which should wean out these types of students you are referring to. I know nothing about your college nor do I care to, but you can't get into my school's program unless you have a gpa of 3.7 or above. So, why wouldn't I assume that you're intelligable enough to hack the program??? Yes, there are a few who don't make it or have what it takes, but again, this post is dedicated to the gentleman who already has a medical background and he knows a great deal through experience in his current field of study to be able to make it through the program! Again, you've made this personal and I'm beginning to think your sign in name says it all about who you are, but that's just my opinion!

Wow personal digs? I haven't made this personal at all. It's a DISCUSSION BOARD. I haven't made any assumptions about YOU OR YOUR LIFE, I made comments on my opinion about some of the things said. But you just had to make a personal dig at me and who I am.

FYI My sign in name means My crazy LIFE. I have 4 kids, have gone through a heckuva lot in 30 years and it's been a pretty crazy LIFE

I could go on to make personal digs, but I won't. I will keep my opinions on general topics at hand, like I have been doing. You have a nice night.

HyperSaurus, RN, BSN · Mar 27, 2010

Woah, when did this thread turn into a fight unrelated to the topic at hand? Calm down, people.