Nasty medical students

Dalzac, LPN, LVN, RN · Jul 11, 2005

I have to laugh. several years ago I had a med student tell me to never call him by his first name and to address him as "Dr." He did this in front of 4 ER docs who immediately became quiet and just stared at him. I just started laughing and told him fine and that he should start calling me "Queen nurse of the universe" and walked away. For the rest of the month he was in ER all he heard was those 4 docs calling me "Queen nurse of the Universe." It was screamin hilarious. I never laugh so much than that month.

unknown99, BSN, RN · Jul 11, 2005

When a new med student or 1st year resident gets rude and nasty to me, I simply tell them that I can be their best friend on the floor or their worst enemy, that it is up to them to pick which one. The usually give me no problem after that.

z's playa · Jul 11, 2005

I have to laugh. several years ago I had a med student tell me to never call him by his first name and to address him as "Dr." He did this in front of 4 ER docs who immediately became quiet and just stared at him. I just started laughing and told him fine and that he should start calling me "Queen nurse of the universe" and walked away. For the rest of the month he was in ER all he heard was those 4 docs calling me "Queen nurse of the Universe." It was screamin hilarious. I never laugh so much than that month.

That was funny ! Did the doc ever speak to you again? Did you call him DR?

Queen nurse of the universe. :rotfl: :rotfl:

Z

Dalzac, LPN, LVN, RN · Jul 11, 2005

That was funny ! Did the doc ever speak to you again? Did you call him DR?
Queen nurse of the universe. :rotfl: :rotfl:
Z

Nope to both questions He had applied to our ER resident program but I am sad to say they rejected him. The attending ER Docs thought he was a shmuck.

LeahJet, ASN, RN · Jul 11, 2005

I worked in an ICU at a teaching facility a few years ago and OMG.... if med students acted that way there, they were cut down to size in NO time.

There was this one nurse that I loved to death...she was an excellent neuro ICU nurse....she was ghetto fab and hilarious!! A med student smarted off to her and she said (to his face 4 feet away)"AW NAWW...I KNOW this med student didn't just say that to me.....honey, you need to get some miracle grow for your white coat and talk to me then" (med students have to wear the short coats and residents and attendings wear the long ones) We all just laughed in front of him and he kind of slinked off with his tail between his legs.

I know, it's not the most professional thing to do....but it IS funny and quite effective... :)

julieK · Jul 11, 2005

I worked in an ICU at a teaching facility a few years ago and OMG.... if med students acted that way there, they were cut down to size in NO time.

I think ICU and MS stand way, way apart in this issue. I think interns and especially med students are intimidated as h*ll when they get to ICU and the nurses there are traditionally more experienced than MS (in general) and so really run the show and probably save their rear ends more often than not. My MD husband said the first thing he did when he would start an ICU rotation was to buy lunch for all the nurses b/c he knew that they would be the ones getting him through that rotation.

I think in MS, the docs usually feel more "in their element" and so feel more comfortable pushing around the nurses.

Actually, I've found so far this July that the med students are super polite. I think someone must have gotten it into their head to be nice to everyone b/c they are always smiling and introducing themselves. Not the interns! And certainly not the second year residents!! The interns are on a power trip that they're doctors and the residents are on a power trip that they're not interns anymore!! URG!! Not fun, especially since the interns and their clueless orders are making my life, shall we say, a nightmare right now! Can anyone else relate?

-Julie in NYC

**RosesrReder, BSN, MSN, RN** · Jul 11, 2005

So sorry about your uncomfortable situation. Is there anyone from your unit that you could speak with? Hopefully this situation will be resolved. I wish you the best of luck. :)

UM Review RN, ASN, RN · Jul 11, 2005

Maybe some patient teaching that docs are not gods might help.

A hospitalized friend of mine took matters into her own hands when her surgeon breezed into her room while she was trying to get dressed (first time after a broken leg, and the goal was to get into the bathroom--extreme constipation from pain meds--using the walker without help) accompanied by about 4 med students.

Mistake #1: he left the door open.

Mistake #2: he asked, in a patronizing tone, "And how are we feeling today?" as he whipped out his stethoscope.

She replied, "How rude! First of all, I'm DRESSING and you need to CLOSE THE DOOR. Never mind that you didn't KNOCK before you came in and ASK if I was DECENT. Second, I have a NAME. My NAME is Sharon. I, SHARON, feel like s***. And I, SHARON, am on my way to the bathroom. When I am done, I will let you look at me, not before."

The doc turned purple and a couple of the students had to look down at their feet to hide the snickers while she stared the doc down until he left.

I was back in the corner chair laughing my butt off.

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Mermaid4 · Jul 11, 2005

Regarding the Canadian Medical Students Piece...Here is the letter (rough draft) I sent...

To whom it may concern....

I chose the above beginning because as a Registered Nurse since 1981, I have learned that there are often all too few "it" may concern. In this case the "it" is the inappropriate and horrific attitude some medical students (in this case, Canadian) have shown toward nurses.

My first reaction was knee jerk but I wasn't horrified. I was and am disgusted but in the lengthy time frame of my career, I have encountered this sort of thing in both overt and covert ways.

What does a nurse say to such lyrics? Certainly I could name call and herald circumstances where medical students were above board or even appreciative of the nurses working around them. Definitely I could discuss foolish medical students or "hunky" ones. I could say the same about some nurses.

I was under the impression that medicine was about patients. I have to wonder how such rampant stereotype even deserves discussion but unfortunately, it seems all too current.

Really, it doesn't much matter why these students felt compelled to highlight their insecurity and ignorance. Fear is a great motivator of hate and misconception. Academia is a wonderful thing and both medical students AND nurses have to deal with major stress. Get over it. Think about the people we are ALL charged with serving and treating.

Basically, one group cannot function adequately or appropriately without the other and what an amazing time to attempt to learn from each other not only as medical "professionals", but as teachers.

In 1981 when I was graced with being chosen to deliver the commencement speech at the world renowned New England Deaconess Hospital School of Nursing in Boston, Massachusetts, I was scared to death. Flashing through my mind were endless scenarios throughout my student tenure there and are too numerous to mention. However, some just seem to hit the mark so here goes.

During my intensive care rotation I had no clue....Every day was frightening yet exciting. Every night was filled with hours upon hours of studying JUST to be prepared for the next clinical day...One particular morning a medical student and nursing student me were assigned to the same patient who thankfully, was gracious to us both. I didn't trust the medical student because I had heard stories that they were mean to nursing students. Both of us were given the task of caring for our patient's GTUBE which meant administering meds and the like. Neither of us spoke to each other until we were forced to assist each other when the tube became clogged.

"What do we do NOW?" he asked. It was a question directed not at me but to no one in particular. I immediately noticed two things. The patient seemed frightened at the mere suggestion of the question, which was asked and all three of us were so nervous we were shaking. I knew a trick from an old nurse on my medical surgical rotation (unclogging the tube with an injection of coca cola), so mentioned I would be right back and talked it over with my instructor and the nurse overseeing both of us. She agreed it was the correct course of action. I took a deep breath and steeled myself to deliver the suggestion to the medical student, who was at that time, fumbling with the tube and unconsciously, ignoring the patient, which frightened the poor man all the more.

"I'm thinking we might try this," I offered, it has worked for me before. After his initial stare of trepidation, he agreed to try it and the tube was cleared. I don't know that he ever shared that with his supervisor, and we didn't have occasion to run into each other again. I DO know he never forgot it and chalked it up to experience.

My point is that sometimes an entire army of medical professionals can technically support a patient and that includes nurses, but usually, it is the nurses who notice the furrowed brow, the pained expression, the non verbal information. They notice how families are affected and they are the people you need with you to carefully heal a patient. Sometimes they are the difference between you and a lawsuit.

Also in 1981, world renowned physician Frank Wheelock of the New England Deaconess Hospital took the stage following my commencement speech. We were all in awe of the doctor. He was an entity of the institution. When he spoke I never expected to hear what he said.

Dr. Wheelock addressed our class and kept our "embryo" nurse attention by telling us that in the beginning of his career he was as ignorant as the next medical student. He told us that most of what he learned over his career he could not attribute either to school or his personal experience with patients. To our shock and delight, he admitted that the majority of what he learned had been from nurses. He told a story that one nurse in particular had called him several times over the course of a night with no new clinical information on her patient. She just "knew" that the patient was severely compromised. The lab values were acceptable. Something was just "not right." The doctor was irritated and yelled at the nurse, more than once, and loudly. Later, he came to discover that this happened often enough with the outcome accurately predicted by the nurse, that he came to know and trust nurses.

That's really what it should be about. You share knowledge and information to best serve the patient. It isn't or shouldn't be about undermining each other. It SHOULD be about learning and supporting each other, in BOTH directions.

Think of the patient and try to remember we are all in a learning environment. Medicine is fluid, ever changing and significantly important enough to put aside foolish and harmful stereotypes and ideals. Where is it written that a doctor can't learn from a nurse or vs. versa? Where is it written that one is more brilliant or entitled than the other.

No where is that written. Patients appreciate total care and that includes the care delivered by doctors and nurses, who like it or not have and should have a symbiotic relationship in the health care system. It is a rare doctor who hasn't benefited from some advice during his career delivered by a nurse.

Before I end, let me share one more thing. Earlier in my career, I had a patient who was on his last trip to our unit. We, doctors and nurses alike, had done all we could for him. He had no family and in a way, we considered ourselves his family. "Jesse" was in end stage respiratory failure and dying. As he closed his eyes for the last time, he smiled at me and asked softly, "Please don't leave me." I had six other patients but somehow found a way to temporarily shift their care as best I could and sat there on that sultry summer evening, holding his hand in mine crying silent tears, until he passed away. I have known medical students and doctors who were as involved with their patients at times.

Medical students please recall that each patient and each nurse could be your family member or friend. It is as simple as treating them with the same amount of human decency you would expect and hope YOU yourself would be treated with should you ever find yourself in the vulnerable position of patient. Recall if you DO, it will be the NURSES who care for you professionally, technicologically, psychologically, physically and emotionally. Learn THAT lesson and learn the most important lesson in medicine you will EVER learn.

Sincerely,

Martha J. Crowninshield O'Brien RN

nettie01 · Aug 31, 2005

I've just read some posts about rude doctors. I'm quite shocked by what I've read. I think the power balance is more equal here - at least where I've worked, a major New Zealand city. I find most doctors quite reasonable, approachable and polite. I believe that they wouldn't dare to throw their weight around because the negative consequences for them would be too great - they depend on the nurses and we depend on them.

Jeanette

mattsmom81 · Aug 31, 2005

Not to worry doggie, code pink is already taken - it's the infant abduction code. The infantile behavior code will have to be something else.

LOL...you'll totally confuse those snotty student doc as people rush in and check bags, etc...looking for the baby...LOL!!

As a ...ahem...ASSERTIVE ICU nurse...I've been known to wither a few snotty students down to size too. They make their rude/sarcastic comments; to which I would raise an eyebrow and ask ' Is that a baby doc trying to tell me how to do MY job?' "When he doesn't even know HIS yet?" Usually sends them slinking off.

In my last teaching facility, it was standard for the new med students AND residents to be lined up and introduced to the nursing staff...and our manager would announce "Here are your new students/residents , nurses....teach them well. "

mattsmom81 · Aug 31, 2005

----It ain't right. But I agree. I've actually had a friend of the family ask me if I wsa one of the nurses getting the 'crappy diploma degree' (his words) or was I getting an 'actual degree'. ----reposted quote

Hmm..what an ignorant student doc. If he knew what he was talking about, he would know the Diploma nurses were taught most like their own medical school and internship programs, with lots of OJT and 'see one do one teach one.'

I don't know a single diploma RN who is not exceptional. The program was too thorough, the expectations too high to be otherwise.