Nasty medical students

Dixielee, BSN, RN · Dec 8, 2004

I had an 80 year old patient last week in the ER. He was there with shortness of breath, and initially no one knew he was a retired doc. He eventually told the ER doc, who told me. As he was being wheeled out of the ER to be admitted, he took my hand, and said..."I was in practice for more than 40 years, and I always knew that the nurses were the right and the left hand of the doctors". I laughed, told him I appreciated that and ask him jokingly to put it in writing...he said, "I have, many times." There is hope for these hot shot med students, but they need a good mentor.

One time I was assisting a resident insert a central line in ICU. Afterward, he proceded to clean up his tray, put away the sharps, etc. I thanked him for it, and said, "you must be married to a nurse"...he said, "no, I was raised by one".

Thunderwolf, MSN, RN · Dec 8, 2004

I hated it too when med students acted this way.

jaimealmostRN · Dec 9, 2004

This makes me sad...why go into healthcare if you have NO respect for co-workers or PATIENTS? In my expirence, most if not all med-students/residents are very nice and even a bit shy. But it seems like these students are taking a cue from their instructor. I bet they will be VERY different when they are alone on a floor with 10 seasoned, opinionated nurses, LOL. You don't necessarily have to be nasty back to them, but if they say something rude, make them accountable for it (sounds like dr. phil haha). Maintain eye contact, say things like, "thats not very nice," don't be hostile back, but don't just turn away from their rudeness. The instructor might just be stuck in her ways, but I doubt the students are also that angry at life/hospital/nurses/etc.

mattsmom81 · Dec 9, 2004

Our med students are more like 'deer in headlights' than snotty. the snottiness comes later after they are real docs..then they seem to forget how much they relied on us all those years through their education.

Yes, some docs treat ICU nurses well, but not all unfortunately. As a whole I must say I do get more respect than I did when I worked medsurg.

I still want to go work with Begalli tho.

Jamesdotter · Dec 9, 2004

Many years ago, we had several interns from Upstate NY and Downstate NY who were very rude to the nurses and to the patients. I'm happy to report that they did eventually come around--my experience here (on the west coast) has been quite positive with the MDs in training--admittedly mostly in OB. But meanwhile:

"I do not like you Dr. Fell, I don't know why and cannot tell. But this I know and know full well, I do not like you Dr. Fell"

hypnotic_nurse · Dec 9, 2004

I haven't had a bad resident in a long time. Most of them are just delightful.

Those who are introverted who are sometimes too abrupt with the patients but don't mean anything by it (and try to do better when you tell them what they did and how the patient felt). And the anxious ones who sometimes allow their anxiety to affect all their interactions...they overreact to everything and a little calming goes a long way with them. I've been lucky enough to work with profs who pretty quickly nipped any smart-alecky behaviors in the bud.

qje999 · Jul 10, 2005

Med students can be taught to be nice. And their instructor needs to be taken aside by your units attending and given an attitude adjustment.
If that doesn't happen, start documenting. Take the documentation to your nurse manager or higher till something does happen. You don't have tolerate that behavior.

I dont see why you have to teach them to be nice. that is human nature to treat patients, families, etc with respect, like you would want them to treat your family if they were in the hosp. some people are just nasty, and no amount of teaching will change them. they are the ones going into the wrong field.

prmenrs, RN · Jul 10, 2005

I dont see why you have to teach them to be nice. that is human nature to treat patients, families, etc with respect, like you would want them to treat your family if they were in the hosp. some people are just nasty, and no amount of teaching will change them. they are the ones going into the wrong field.

I agree w/what you're saying. BUT. If you work in a University teaching hospital that has a med school, sooner or later, you will probably run into this situation. If you think about it ahead of time, you'll have strategies to deal w/it. The rude professor is teaching by behavior modeling. Unfortunately, it's negative behavior. If something doesn't counter that, it will not create a good doctor. If at least one person offers an alternative (even if it's 'just a nurse'), it might just help. A lot of "ifs". I believe it would be better to be the seed.

That doesn't mean I haven't eaten an intern or two for breakfast, mind you.

BETSRN · Jul 10, 2005

We have a number of them on our floor since the past few weeks, and we can't wait for them to leave. Their clinical instructor is an abomination. She is very rude and disrespectful to the floor staff, and she encourages her students to do the same. You can't say anything at all to these people because they think they know everything and that they are God. Whenever they ask us anything, no matter what we say, their response is usually some rude or sarcastic remark. Also, they often take all the charts and clipboards into their conferences, and if the nurses need to make any references or do any charting its usually a hassle to get them even for a few minutes. Today I heard one of them telling one of the floor nurses that she is "only a nurse" just because she made a comment about the deteriorating status of one of her patients that he was assigned to. These people aren't even out of school yet and already thay have this bad attitude!
Later in the afternoon I was assisting a PCA with a totally dependent pt when a group of the med students came into the room. The pt was an adolescent with CP (quadriplegia case with severe joint contractures) who needed assistance with everything and the PCA was now trying to feed her. I was so shocked when the MD rudely shoved the PCA aside and said she and her students need to immediately access the patient to do an assessment. Never mind that there was no emergency and they were disrupting the patient's meal just so they could poke and stare at her and use high-sounding medical language to talk about her condition. There was something kinda surreal about the whole experience. Isn't medicine supposed to be all about dignified care of the patient? When did it become all about the egos of self-important physicians?
This MD and her students obviously feel they are better than the nursing staff but I wonder how much patient care they really think they could ever get done without us. I also wonder what kind of life these people go home to at the end of the day after being such total b*tches to everyone around them.
Sorry for the vent, but I just had to get that out! :)

I would definitely speak up and advocate for your patients. You also need to speak to your nurse manager. These med students are getting a really bad example of collegial relationships. These students also need to learn to work in collaboration with the nurses.

doggiedaddy · Jul 10, 2005

We have a number of them on our floor since the past few weeks, and we can't wait for them to leave. Their clinical instructor is an abomination. She is very rude and disrespectful to the floor staff, and she encourages her students to do the same. ... These people aren't even out of school yet and already thay have this bad attitude!

you've got to take the lead on this. you've got to stand up to them and put them back in their proper place. formulate your arguments/responses at home. practice them like you practice a public presentation. then be prepared to deliver in front of the maximum number of people for the maximum effectiveness. its too late to try diplomatic one-on-one negotiations.

if you don't stand up, no one will -- and then another class of nasty med students turn into nasty MD's who treat everyone like sh*t, refuse to admit mistakes, increasing both their arrogance and potential for more mistakes.

so thats the short term solution.

the long term solution is to organize the nursing profession to standardize what is and what isnt a nurse. which means, ultimately, that every nurse will have a BSN. just like every other medical profession requires at least a bachelors degree.

you dont see Physical Therapists, Speech Pathologist, Pharmacists, etc, being sh*t on by MDs.

just my $0.02. and no, i'm not a nurse.

BETSRN · Jul 10, 2005

you've got to take the lead on this. you've got to stand up to them and put them back in their proper place. formulate your arguments/responses at home. practice them like you practice a public presentation. then be prepared to deliver in front of the maximum number of people for the maximum effectiveness. its too late to try diplomatic one-on-one negotiations.
if you don't stand up, no one will -- and then another class of nasty med students turn into nasty MD's who treat everyone like sh*t, refuse to admit mistakes, increasing both their arrogance and potential for more mistakes.
so thats the short term solution.
the long term solution is to organize the nursing profession to standardize what is and what isnt a nurse. which means, ultimately, that every nurse will have a BSN. just like every other medical profession requires at least a bachelors degree.
you dont see Physical Therapists, Speech Pathologist, Pharmacists, etc, being sh*t on by MDs.
just my $0.02. and no, i'm not a nurse.

A BSN is not the ticket to changing the image of nursing. Until nurses are prepared to stand up for themselves and NOT allow themselves to be treated with disrepsect, nothing will change. If one stands up for herself and acts in a professional manner, it doesn't matter what her background or training is.

doggiedaddy · Jul 10, 2005

A BSN is not the ticket to changing the image of nursing. Until nurses are prepared to stand up for themselves and NOT allow themselves to be treated with disrepsect, nothing will change. If one stands up for herself and acts in a professional manner, it doesn't matter what her background or training is.

whats wrong with this argument? pharmacists dont have to "stand up" and demand respect. engineers dont have to "stand up" and demand respect. lawyers dont have to... um... well, never mind about lawyers, you see what i'm saying.

nurses, regardless of formal education, are highly skilled professionals and are invaluable to the medical profession.. the problem here is in public perception.

like it or not, nursing has long had the public (mis)perception of being a female, blue-collar, vocation that consists largely of changing sheets and emptying bedpans.

obviously, nurses have been struggling for some time to change this image, and get the respect that their profession deserves.

however, in the 21st century, it is different than it was in 1960 or 1970. A bachelor's degree is now the rule, not the exception, for any profession. and that's just the *minimum*

this public mis-perception, of nursing as a blue-collar vocation, will continue to persist until nurses consolidate their ranks, protect their title, and require a minimum formal education that is equivalent to other medical professions.