Ok, I know that organ donation has been discussed here more than once, but I couldn't find anything that addressed my particular question/issue........so here goes.
In this year's presidential election, many of the exit polls showed that people voted based on their "family/moral values." It seems they (not me!) voted for Bush because they felt he stood for those values, especially in regards to gay marriage, abortion, etc. I was very distraught after the election because I hear these people talking but I don't see these people taking moral action! Organ donation is just one of the areas that angers me.
How can the majority of this country stand on such moral high-ground and then show such PATHETIC organ donation numbers? People are dying because they can't get an organ when there are plenty available, but they get buried with the patient! How can you proclaim to be such a good person with such high moral values when you aren't even willing to donate your or your family's organs in the event of their death? I really don't see that as being a whole lot less than murder.
I'm not even a nurse yet, so I'm not right in the middle of this yet, but I do dread it! Anyway, this is just something that disturbs me deeply and I wanted to get your take on it, especially those of you, if any, that are not willing to donate. I'd like an explanation!
I was a liver transplant nurse when Mickey Mantle began having his organ transplants. The man was dying yet his care team just kept transplanting organs into him. I saw interviews with the transplant MDs who, red in the face and embarrassed, answered the ethical questions with "Well, it was MICKEY MANTLE!".
I'm not in transplant any more. But when I bring up organ donation to others, you'd be amazed at how often Mantle is brought up. People remember the awful waste of organs so that a few MDs could spend a minute with their boyhood hero.
I agree with Stevielynn, how do you know people who voted for Bush are not organ donors? How do you know people who voted for Kerry WERE organ donors?
I am an organ donor and I voted for Bush. My husband is an organ donor (just signed up this October) and he voted for Bush. The same with my daughter and son-in-law and my Mama!
You can put me in the group that does not judge a person by his or her choice to be an organ donor. I know some people with very high morals who DO NOT believe in organ donation.
I have a often wondered about the little Mexican girl at Duke University a couple of years ago who got the heart / lungs of a person with a different blood type and within a few days was re-transplanted and soon thereafter died. If it takes months to years to find donors, how were they able to find a second donor for her so quickly...
I used to think it should be a government mandate, but now feel so strongly the opposite...it's a very personal choice, and if someone doesn't want to do it, then that's their decision and I would never be critical of it. The times that celebrities have managed to move to the top of the list when others were waiting have soured me somewhat. The quality of life I have seen recipients lead usually isn't very good. I watched a young woman die after a long drawn out illness of rejection and multisystem failure, after getting a kidney transplant that she hadn't really wanted in the first place. She'd been doing fine on CAPD but her family pressured her into getting the procedure done. Another man, a heart recipient, is dragging out his miserable life, on iv inocor continually at home, in renal failure, on dialysis, in the hospital or house bound all the time. His whole life revolves around sickness and drugs but he's caught on the treadmill now.
All of these things are generally at a huge cost...no one is supposed to live forever...is it worth it in terms of money and quality of life? Sometimes there are worse things than death.
I have a often wondered about the little Mexican girl at Duke University a couple of years ago who got the heart / lungs of a person with a different blood type and within a few days was re-transplanted and soon thereafter died. If it takes months to years to find donors, how were they able to find a second donor for her so quickly...[/quote]
Your "rank" on the transplant list depends on several things, one of which is how sick you are. From what I read about that little girl, she practically had two feet in the grave. It stands to reason that she was probably one of the sickest patients awaiting transplant at that time, so she was probably moved to the top of the list.
Also, and I am not sure if this happened in her case, but you can "direct" your donation. I remember hearing that her family was appealing to the public that if they were faced with the opportunity to donate organs in the next few days, that they please request them to be directed to her. I am not sure if the second set of organs she received were directed though.
I had a patient at my hospital who went for a heart transplant, and the surgical team couldn't get the new heart restarted. AFter multiple attempts, the surgeon went to talk to the family and explained that their mother/wife was most likely not going to make it - the heart wouldn't work. Incredibly, another heart became available only ten miles away - and she got it. (Two heart transplants in one night!) She got bumped up to the top of the list because of her status. She walked out of the hospital two weeks later, and still comes back to visit when she gets her routine biopsies.
I agree with Stevielynn, how do you know people who voted for Bush are not organ donors? How do you know people who voted for Kerry WERE organ donors?
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You didn't read what I wrote, did you?
"I think it is very safe to assume that the same folks that voted for him (or Kerry for that matter) are not organ donors."
I'll explain again. I've said it at least 3 times that MOST PEOPLE are not organ donors. I'm just asking those who cited moral values (Bush supporters- read the exit polls if you don't believe me) why they are not willing to donate. If you are willing to donate, then the question does not apply to you. Many of you have said that you do not connect a willingness to donate to moral values. That is an answer to my question and I really appreciate that. I disagree, but that's just MHO. Many of you think I'm being judgmental. I'm sorry, but we are all judgmental about one thing or another. Much of Bush's campaign was based on judging others, by the way. (Even though I can be judgmental, I don't believe in PUBLIC POLICY that judges others, so that's why I didn't vote for Bush. If I believed that way, then I would fight to pass laws that would fine people for being stupid. NOT THAT I'M CALLING ANY OF YOU STUPID. Stupidity is just one of my pet peaves.) Anytime someone does something you don't agree with and you lose a little a little bit of respect for them, you're being judgmental. This is just one of those times for me. I'm not perfect! To me, there is a connection between moral values and organ donation, so that is why I posed the question.
The quality of life I have seen recipients lead usually isn't very good. I watched a young woman die after a long drawn out illness of rejection and multisystem failure, after getting a kidney transplant that she hadn't really wanted in the first place. She'd been doing fine on CAPD but her family pressured her into getting the procedure done. Another man, a heart recipient, is dragging out his miserable life, on iv inocor continually at home, in renal failure, on dialysis, in the hospital or house bound all the time. His whole life revolves around sickness and drugs but he's caught on the treadmill now.
All of these things are generally at a huge cost...no one is supposed to live forever...is it worth it in terms of money and quality of life? Sometimes there are worse things than death.
We were just discussing this exact thing at my office today. I agree that quality of life should be a factor. Sometimes there is no way to know what the recipient's quality of life will be post-transplant. Many times, though, the quality of life is great and the recipient leads a long, happy life post-transplant. Just read some of the stories at http://www.donormemorial.org/. May of them are from recipients thanking their donor.
wannabe's statement, I think, is based on an assumption that donation is the "moral" thing to do:
I think what wannabe is trying to say is that one would think, based on the "moral" ground that people who voted for Bush stand on, that there would be more organ donation taking place in the US. I don't think he/she necessarily means that those who voted for Bush are not organ donors. Now this, I would think, would have to be based on the feeling in general that donating is the "moral", or right thing to do. There is no way to know that. So while what wannabe is trying to say somewhat makes sense to me, it is still a bit flawed because we have no way of knowing what people as a whole consider to be the right thing to do.
I care about public health also. I care about people. But what if you are a nurse that is so caring that you refuse to let a person die with dignity? To me this goes to the heart of letting adults choose. To the other poster. Who do some people not donate organs? To me it is as simple as they choose not to. I have no problem with someone trying to change my mind as long as they, in the end, allow me to not change. How can a nurse be caring and at the same time not respect a person's wishes that they disagree with? As a nurse I will bring caring and compassion as well as excellent skills to the job but as nurses we have to respect the patient's wishes. Is this not correct? I choose to err on the side of letting people choose for themselves.
Different issues. I believe in mandatory safety devices. I liken seatbelts and helmets to say elevator safety.
I also believe in death with dignity, allowing a terminal person to make decisions in that process. I'm not getting the connection between caring for a person die with dignity and mandating safety on the roads.
I'm against mandatory organ donation and a lot of government interferences. I draw my own lines that are way quite different that yours. Yours is an issue of choice, mine is public safety. I'm wishy washy and hippocritical I know and we definately agree to dissagree. I was just trying to answer your question as to why I care whether you wear a helmet or not. I'm a trauma nurse and worked neuro as well, so if you head injure yourself and I'll be very happy to help you die with dignity (while shaking my head in shame that your life might have been spared, or severe disability at great taxpayer cost could have been spared).
Ok, I know that organ donation has been discussed here more than once, but I couldn't find anything that addressed my particular question/issue........so here goes.
In this year's presidential election, many of the exit polls showed that people voted based on their "family/moral values." It seems they (not me!) voted for Bush because they felt he stood for those values, especially in regards to gay marriage, abortion, etc. I was very distraught after the election because I hear these people talking but I don't see these people taking moral action! Organ donation is just one of the areas that angers me.
How can the majority of this country stand on such moral high-ground and then show such PATHETIC organ donation numbers? People are dying because they can't get an organ when there are plenty available, but they get buried with the patient! How can you proclaim to be such a good person with such high moral values when you aren't even willing to donate your or your family's organs in the event of their death? I really don't see that as being a whole lot less than murder.
I'm not even a nurse yet, so I'm not right in the middle of this yet, but I do dread it! Anyway, this is just something that disturbs me deeply and I wanted to get your take on it, especially those of you, if any, that are not willing to donate. I'd like an explanation!
"In this year's presidential election, many of the exit polls showed that people voted based on their "family/moral values." It seems they (not me!) voted for Bush because they felt he stood for those values, especially in regards to gay marriage, abortion, etc. I was very distraught after the election because I hear THESE PEOPLE talking but I don't see THESE PEOPLE taking moral action!
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I'm sorry but your first post stated that you were angry about people who voted for Bush and don't donate. You also say the following:
"I'm just saying that Bush supporters (a lot of them) say they voted for him based on moral issues, yet most of them will not donate organs (statistically speaking)."
Where do you get your statistics that Bush voters don't donate? How do you know that?
Why can't you just ask the question ..Why don't more people donate?
Families of cadaver donors are not charged for the surgery Blackcat, that's complete bull. As far as I know you are NOT permitted to put stipulations on who gets your organs when you're dead, that's why it's considered a blind system.
Thanks Fergus 51 for the information. Yes her story now does sound like bull. However, when she told me "her story" she sure was a great actress! I wonder if she had religion objections to organ transplants so she made up this wild story?
I am in my 50's and am wondering if my organs would even be useful for organ donation? I feel like my body is falling apart slowly. I also have a past history of malignant melanoma. Would the organ bank even accept any of my organs? Thanks :)
Quickbeam, BSN, RN
1,011 Posts
Organ Donation..the Mickey Mantle problem
I was a liver transplant nurse when Mickey Mantle began having his organ transplants. The man was dying yet his care team just kept transplanting organs into him. I saw interviews with the transplant MDs who, red in the face and embarrassed, answered the ethical questions with "Well, it was MICKEY MANTLE!".
I'm not in transplant any more. But when I bring up organ donation to others, you'd be amazed at how often Mantle is brought up. People remember the awful waste of organs so that a few MDs could spend a minute with their boyhood hero.