Ok, I know that organ donation has been discussed here more than once, but I couldn't find anything that addressed my particular question/issue........so here goes.
In this year's presidential election, many of the exit polls showed that people voted based on their "family/moral values." It seems they (not me!) voted for Bush because they felt he stood for those values, especially in regards to gay marriage, abortion, etc. I was very distraught after the election because I hear these people talking but I don't see these people taking moral action! Organ donation is just one of the areas that angers me.
How can the majority of this country stand on such moral high-ground and then show such PATHETIC organ donation numbers? People are dying because they can't get an organ when there are plenty available, but they get buried with the patient! How can you proclaim to be such a good person with such high moral values when you aren't even willing to donate your or your family's organs in the event of their death? I really don't see that as being a whole lot less than murder.
I'm not even a nurse yet, so I'm not right in the middle of this yet, but I do dread it! Anyway, this is just something that disturbs me deeply and I wanted to get your take on it, especially those of you, if any, that are not willing to donate. I'd like an explanation!
Believe it or not, sometimes the government and other people, such as nurses, care about people. We know wearing a helmet provides better outcomes in an accident, and people who don't wear helmets have accidents, same as people who do wear helmets. Forgive us please, we're only trying to do what's right. I could go on a bit more, but won', but what's so hard about understanding that people care. It's not that I'm some evil person that wants to infringe on your personal rights because I'm power hungry, I sincerely care about public health. :rotfl:
But I understand your point. Where does one draw the line at personal freedoms. Demand someone wears a helmet today, and then demand they loose weight tomorrow. :)
I care about public health also. I care about people. But what if you are a nurse that is so caring that you refuse to let a person die with dignity? To me this goes to the heart of letting adults choose. To the other poster. Who do some people not donate organs? To me it is as simple as they choose not to. I have no problem with someone trying to change my mind as long as they, in the end, allow me to not change. How can a nurse be caring and at the same time not respect a person's wishes that they disagree with? As a nurse I will bring caring and compassion as well as excellent skills to the job but as nurses we have to respect the patient's wishes. Is this not correct? I choose to err on the side of letting people choose for themselves.
I am going to reply to this, and my reply may be a repeated one (I didn't surf through all 16 pages of this thread:-) Anyway, as far as doctors and nurses "not working hard to save you..."
In order to donate the majority of organs, your body has to be physiologically alive, but brain dead. This means your heart must be beating, and the blood must be flowing through the body. There are several criteria for determining brain death, which I will not go into, but in essence, you must be "alive" in the sense that blood must be flowing through your organs. So for a doctor or nurse to "not work as hard to save you" becasue they want to use your organs for transplant doesn't make sense. Anyone who has ever been part of an organ harveset knows that the donor cannot be pronounced physiologically dead (with no circulation).
I am making these statements from the viewpoint of heart and lung transplants. I work in a CTICU that does hearts and lungs, and I know these statements to be true as far as those organs go. The ischemic time (time the organs can be without oxygen) for hearts and lungs is less than 4 hours. This means from the time the donor's heart beats its last beat to the time it is surgically implanted in the recipient (often in another state), it must be less than 4 hours. If that patient is already physiologically dead, you greatly shorten that time, and also don't have enough time to draw the necessary lab work (tissue typing, viral screens, etc).
Other organs may be different. I understand from my colleagues who work with livers that their ischemic time may be up to 48 hours, so the situation for livers may be different. Not sure about kidneys and pancreases.
I have seen the good work transplants can do. Yes, these patients may develop other diseases (hepatitis, cancer, etc), but at the same time, organ transplantation is still in its infancy. If we had as more people getting transplants, more could be learned about the process and more research produced. As far as prevention goes....some diseases requiring transplant are simply unavoidable, and it has nothing to do with prevention. Genetics plays a much bigger role than we know. Just my opinion...
Families of cadaver donors are not charged for the surgery Blackcat, that's complete bull. As far as I know you are NOT permitted to put stipulations on who gets your organs when you're dead, that's why it's considered a blind system.
Families of cadaver donors are not charged for the surgery Blackcat, that's complete bull. As far as I know you are NOT permitted to put stipulations on who gets your organs when you're dead, that's why it's considered a blind system.
You are permitted to "direct" your donation. For example, if your neighbor John Smith is sick and needs a liver transplant, and your husband/wife dies, you may specify that the liver be directed to him first. If not a match, then I don't believe you have a say where the liver gets placed next, but I do think if you have someone in mind who needs it you can request a "directed donation."
That is a scary statement. However, I find it hard to believe that any doctor would even know whether or not you were an organ donor until after he/she did their best to save your life. It is probably one of those tales that circulate and spread fear. (...but who knows?)
The person at the DMV told me not to check off organ donor on my driver's liscence because, he said, that would make the doctor less willing to save your life. I put it on anyways, but isn't it true that most doctors take organ donation off their liscence after they get out of medical school? This may be why a lot of people don't vouch for it.When a lot of people complain about moral values(ie. justice, fairness, kindness, equality), if most are referring to getting other people to treat them with these moral values and not really about getting themselves to treat other people with these values, then that means the moral values don't get fulfilled. This is probably why there is inaction.
This is such an interesting thread! You guys certainly have some informative and interesting things to say about this subject! Sorry I haven't been more involved in the discussion, but I've had some other things pulling me away from the board. Plus, some of you guys just intimidate the s*&^ out of me, which is scary because most people don't phase me at all. My original question had to do with the increased "moral/family values" in this country but no increase in organ transplants. Most of you have said that you don't see a connection between being a moral person and donating. I can understand that, so that basically answers my question. I just never really saw it that way for myself. Someone else asked why I had to bring the election and the republicans in this. Well, that's easy. It was Bush supporters that said they voted for Bush due to moral issues, not Kerry supporters. I think it is very safe to assume that the same folks that voted for him (or Kerry for that matter) are not organ donors. It's just that it wasn't the Kerry supporters that cited moral values as the reason they voted for Kerry. By far, most of the people in this country do not donate their organs.
I am certainly not a perfect person, but I try my best to do the right thing most of the time, and donating my organs when I die just feels like the right thing. It's also really easy. It requires no real effort on my part, seeing that I'll be dead and all, other than letting my husband and family know my wishes. I know the system is not perfect, but then, what system is? However, those people on the waiting list did not make up the rules and processes for the system. So, I will not punish them for the faults of the system.
I don't think it should be mandatory to donate, but I might change my mind on that. I agree that some of the laws we have seem ridiculous, like the seatbelt and helmet laws. However, I also find it's ridiculous that laws are even needed to make people protect themselves. What strange animals are humans! Why would you need to make a law to tell me to put my kid in a corificeat? And, yet, people still don't do it! I am always baffled to see the number of people that don't put their kids in car seats and don't wear seatbelts themselves. I wear a seatbelt, but not because it's the law. I wear it because I want to live and I want to spare my husband and family the grief of losing me because it was too inconvenient and restricting to wear the belt. When driving cross-country, I don't stop at each state's DMV to see if it's a law for me to save my own life! Those laws still don't MAKE people do anything - they just encourage it.
I've babbled on long enough, so I'll shut up now. I just had some thoughts and wanted to share them with you. I love this board. I feel much better about this. And, yes, I do plan to educate people once I am a nurse and as much as possible now.
My son is living today because a man donated his organs..my son received a part of the man's liver at 11 months of age. He is now a healthy 11 year old boy. I am an organ donor and am involved in this issue in my community.
I was unaware that Bush was against organ donation?! I am still a Bush supporter.
I never said Bush was against organ donation! Please don't get that started! I'm just saying that Bush supporters (a lot of them) say they voted for him based on moral issues, yet most of them will not donate organs (statistically speaking).
I'm so happy to hear about your son! Spread the word!
I never said Bush was against organ donation! Please don't get that started! I'm just saying that Bush supporters (a lot of them) say they voted for him based on moral issues, yet most of them will not donate organs (statistically speaking).
Actually you are making quite a generalization here, but believe whatever you wish...if it makes you happy.
NurseGuy_in_06
276 Posts
I care about public health also. I care about people. But what if you are a nurse that is so caring that you refuse to let a person die with dignity? To me this goes to the heart of letting adults choose. To the other poster. Who do some people not donate organs? To me it is as simple as they choose not to. I have no problem with someone trying to change my mind as long as they, in the end, allow me to not change. How can a nurse be caring and at the same time not respect a person's wishes that they disagree with? As a nurse I will bring caring and compassion as well as excellent skills to the job but as nurses we have to respect the patient's wishes. Is this not correct? I choose to err on the side of letting people choose for themselves.