Medical Asst vs Nurse

RN2CNM · Oct 29, 2004

I think it is intresting when an LVN/LPN's education is compared to an RN's education as almost the same, nothing is said otherwise(or it is said "well they are practically the same thing, just a few differences on what an LPN can and cannot do"). But when someone tries to compare CNA/CMA's level of education to that of an LVN/LPN the flood gets open and you can not keep LVN/LPN's silent. Just my observation.

Fiona59 · Oct 29, 2004

Good Point!

But CNA's training lasts approx 12 weeks with much of that as practical experience.

LPN's when I trained were four semesters with 20 odd weeks clinical experience. NA's no matter how experienced or well trained are not taught medications, wound care, spend clinical time in psych, peds, geriatrics, maternity and med/surg units. We graduated with 75% of the skills of an RN.

We all have our place in the health care system. How the system utilizes each of us varies from province to province and state to state.

Somebody on the board had a point LPNs and RNs have a national exam to sit before being allowed to practice and carry insurance once licenced.

As far as I know there is no national standard for NA's and they don't have a licence and don't carry insurance.

My local hospital sees LPNs as extra NA's. No meds, no wound care, but patient care only. So as a result an LPN is a very expensive NA who is underutilized.

Maybe the lack of appreciation of our skills makes some LPNs defensive. They have to struggle for their recognition.

RDH2RN · Oct 29, 2004

For the RN's: If it's any consolation, we have the exact same "war" waging in the dental field. I'm a dental hygienist (soon to be pre-nursing student). Hygienists have the RDH (registered dental hygienist) title and license. We go to school for 4-5 yrs. (2-3 yrs. of actual hygiene school, depending on whether you pursue the assoc. or bachelors) and have written and clinical board exams to pass before getting our license.

Well, there's a secret rivalry/jealousy thing that goes on between dental assistants and dental hygienists. Assistants go to school for 6 mos. to a year and receive a certificate (no license). Many patients do not understand the difference between assistants and hygienists and are quite surprised when they find out I went to school for five yrs., have a bachelor's degree, have completely different responsibilities than an assistant and can give injections.

I was searching for a new job recently. My MIL, who has known me for 11 YRS., e-mailed me and says, "I saw these two job postings and thought you might want to look into them!" Well, the two jobs were for DENTAL ASSISTANTS! :angryfire Helloooo, MIL!!! :uhoh3: Two jobs under the same roof, two completely different worlds!

The public is just as uneducated about the RDH as they are the RN. So, don't feel too badly. :rolleyes:

Angel

Jo Dirt · Oct 29, 2004

Good Point!
Maybe the lack of appreciation of our skills makes some LPNs defensive. They have to struggle for their recognition.

I'm an LPN. When people ask what I do, I tell them I'm a nurse. Their eyebrow's go up and they say "Oh? An RN?" I say no, an LPN. Then the impressed look is wiped off their faces and I can tell they've just knocked 30 points off whatever IQ they may have imagined I had.

I'm not wanting to take credit from the RN's who have had a higher level of education, but what gets me is that at the nursing home where I work we have RN's who come through there who don't have the sense God gave a goose, of course they are given the lightest workload because that is just a privledge their higher education has earned them. Still, there are some who don't last two weeks because they can't handle the job. I had one RN ask me "How on earth do you do all this? I'm going back to the hospital to look for a job in the ICU!"

Another RN was recently "let go" after she turned on a feeding tube and walked out of the room leaving the head of the patient's bed flat and one of the family members came in and saw it and threw a fit. This alone wasn't what got her canned but it was just one incidents in a series of incidents. Of course she knew better, and it was an honest mistake, but I think this goes to show that just because you have the title of RN behind your name doesn't mean you have "arrived" and are incapable of being an incompetent nurse.

Fiona59 · Oct 29, 2004

Education is a wonderful thing. It can be purchased.

Common sense is invaluable, priceless and cannot be taught.

Here's a question. Is it possible to graduate as a BscN, and then fail the Nclex-rn? Do they take away the degree or is passing tied to granting the degree?

RN4NICU, LPN, LVN · Oct 29, 2004

Education is a wonderful thing. It can be purchased.
Common sense is invaluable, priceless and cannot be taught.
Here's a question. Is it possible to graduate as a BscN, and then fail the Nclex-rn? Do they take away the degree or is passing tied to granting the degree?

The state board and the university are in no way related to one another. One cannot take away what the other has granted. Once any college degree is awarded it cannot be taken away, unless the university itself rescinds the degree (which would require proof of academic misconduct - and sometimes not even then). However - state boards require academic transcripts be issued from the university (or other program), so failure to complete academic requirements can result in ineligibility to sit for boards.

It is possible to fail the NCLEX-RN. It is also possible to retake it. Some people retake it many, many times, but that is another issue altogether.

While I suppose that it is true that education can be purchased - degrees, licenses and credentials are earned

Fiona59 · Oct 29, 2004

Thanks, it was something I'd always wondered about. So, you can have a nurses degree but not be able to practice as a nurse.

Isn't education wonderful!!!

RN4NICU, LPN, LVN · Oct 29, 2004

Thanks, it was something I'd always wondered about. So, you can have a nurses degree but not be able to practice as a nurse.
Isn't education wonderful!!!

Same goes for any profession that requires a license, so its not really surprising.

tonicareer · Oct 29, 2004

Very interesting topic. Ok today I got an email thing about employment - you know the ones where they try to predict the future (lol). They projected from now until 2012 growth rate for MAs is 59% and for RNs it is 27%. Ok now I rarely see an advertisement for MAs - the people I know who work as MAs get very low pay - minimum or slightly above and they do have Associate Degrees (60 or more credit hours). Meanwhile LPNs need about 50 credit hours and get paid much more. ASN's get 60 credits and make more than LPNs. CNA's are trained quickly and get paid more than MAs. The community colleges in my state have tons of MA programs and very few LPN programs and even fewer entry ASN programs. All the Nursing programs in my state are swamped with applicants who cannot get into a program. I know people who went into the MA programs because they couldn't wait another 5 years or maybe never getting into an LPN program or ASN or BSN program. So they get the MA and cannot find a job! Some have gone back for the CNA thing (just takes a couple months). So the head of the department at the community college says that due to the nurse shortage that in the next few years MAs will become licensed rather than certified so than MAs can do the same duties as a nurse. (Again an attempt to predict the future of healthcare in this country). I know the MA - Nurse debate varies depending on where you live too. Some states do need MAs and do pay them well. My problem is trying to understand why the colleges spend so much more time and money and space on the MA programs rather than LPN or ASN programs - if nurses are so desperately needed?

ADS RN · Oct 29, 2004

I'm An Rn. A Coworker Recently Graduated As A Cma. Under Her Scope Of Practice She Can Pass Meds,do Assessments,give Injections, Draw Labs,is Icd-9 Certified , Can Do Accounting. She Borrowed Several Of My Books For Her Classes And Would Come To Me At Times For Help And I Didn't Have A Clue.as A Cna She Was Invaluable To Me In Emergencies And Picking Up On Problems. She Got An Associates Degree In Applied Science. Me Too (adn). I Feel That She Can Do More Than Me In Some Instances. Like Was Said Before Everyone Has Their Place In The Healthcare System And Together We Make A Great Team!!!!!!!!

RN4NICU, LPN, LVN · Oct 30, 2004

So the head of the department at the community college says that due to the nurse shortage that in the next few years MAs will become licensed rather than certified so than MAs can do the same duties as a nurse. (Again an attempt to predict the future of healthcare in this country).

Licensed by whom? It sure won't be by the board of nursing. This "department head" sounds like he/she is either blowing smoke or does not have a clue. State law regulates scope of practice in health care.

tmiller027 · Oct 30, 2004

Licensed by whom? It sure won't be by the board of nursing. This "department head" sounds like he/she is either blowing smoke or does not have a clue. State law regulates scope of practice in health care.

Our community college REALLY try to push their MA program down peoples throats here. Theres only like 40 openings in their LPN program and 30 in the RN program and about 200 people trying to get into both. When people don't get in, they push this MA program really hard.

They tried to get my wife to do it, and nothing against MAs, but there is just hardly ANY demand for them in this area. And around here, they pay about $9-10/hr. My wife decided to go for lab technician.

They tried to push the MA program on me too when I didn't get into the LPN program, but I opted to go to a private college for their RN program.