Medical Assistants to replace RN's?

Derek1975 · Sep 11, 2009

I am an MA (or will be after graduation) and the doctor's offices I've shadowed hire all MAs for their practice. Hospitals I could never see hiring MAs for anything beyond clinical support or clerical duties (front office). Even as an MA I wouldn't trust emergency room care (for instance) to anyone lower than an RN or Doctor.

DeeAngel · Sep 11, 2009

I can see replacing many PCAs with MAs but they will never replace RNs because they simply can't.

anthony02 · Sep 11, 2009

Apparently (and I say apparently because this is second hand information) but a few hospitals in the area are replacing RNs with paramedics because the medics are paid roughly half of what the nurses make.

highlandlass1592, BSN, RN · Sep 11, 2009

I can see that happening in a doctor's office or a multispecialty group clinic, but not at the bedside. And certainly not at UW Hospitals in Madison because UWM has a very strong nursing program. Why would a university hospital that promotes that university's nursing programs (baccalaureate to doctoral levels) even consider replacing RNs with MAs? It would be in violation of the state nurse practice act to not have licensed personnel at the bedside. I think the person who told the OP that "everyone" is replacing RNs with MAs is misinformed and maybe the OP should speak with someone at UW Hospitals about an employee spreading an absurd and obviously false rumor.
I think MAs do save money in clinics and doctors' offices but, as a patient, I feel far more comfortable with LPN in those roles. Actually, the clinic to which I go does not utilize MAs; LPNs do the patient intake and assist the physicians and the only RN on staff is the clinic manager. I have seen RNs employed in clinics only in supervisory or specialty roles (such as oncology.)

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tferdaise · Sep 12, 2009

Can I assume you were at a clinic at the hospital? Yes, most clinics and Doctors officers hire MA, one they are cheap, and two there is no real restriction on what they can do, since they practice under the doctors license. Its pretty scary these days....

Hello RN's. I took my daughter to the UW Children's Hospital in Madison yesterday. The nurse my daughter had was excellent. She took the time to educate my daughter on a couple of issues, and was very personable. When thanking her for the time and expertise she had shown, she stated that the whole hospital is in the process of replacing RN's with Medical Assistants to save money. She also stated that this is happening in places around the nation. My first question is has anyone been noticing this or know anything about this?

ozoneranger · Sep 12, 2009

In Canada, The variety of organizational changes that resulted within the healthcare system are commonly referred to as "restructuring." Beds and even entire hospitals were closed and patient care services reduced. Nursing positions, as large budget items, became cost-cutting priorities. As a result, hospitals' shares of total expenditures are starting to slip, yet overall, healthcare costs continue to rise.

For the nurses still in the system, workloads increased dramatically. Another major outcome was an expanding "casualization" of labour, as caring work is now performed increasingly by part-time staff: a flexible "skill mix" of nurses and lesser-skilled/unskilled workers

Major shifts towards more "routinized patient care" took place through "care map" technologies and "deskilling". A care map, designed to increase efficiency, is a typical instrument through which care delivery is routinized and standardized. Intermediate goals and outcome criteria are listed. Workloads are broken down into specific tasks, centrally calculated and assigned to workers with varying levels of skills. As patients' collaboration is crucial, they too get a copy of the care map, to know what is expected of them.

Routinized care supposedly allows any health worker to step easily into a situation and perform according to at least "minimum standards," an assumption that underpins the move towards increasing casualization. Standards of care are necessary, of course. However, indiscriminately applied, they can result in a one-size-fits-all approach.

Findings

Trends emerging during restructuring

Participants described several trends that had emerged within the restructured system with some positive, but mostly negative effects. The restructuring process itself was seen by a few as a potential opportunity to promote better allocation of the nurses' expertise:

I think that there has been more of an internal reflection about nursing and what we do. … One could say, if you are doing the exact job of an RPN and at almost 25% more cost … in this day and age cost seems to rule somewhat. … Historically, we always looked at our practice and defined it as medical tasks, yet … one of the challenges of the future is to get RNs to look at their roles in another way.

Many, however, perceived reallocation of some of their chores, in the climate of constant layoffs, as threatening and anxiety provoking: "Each time a new task is given away to another worker some of my colleagues say, 'Well, what is there for us to do now?' I can see our roles vanishing, they could be vanishing."

Restructuring: A View from the Bedside

Isolde Daiski

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SpecialtyMA · Aug 17, 2010

Certainly it is much cheaper for a doctors office to hire a MA rather than an RN, but in the hospital setting, MA's are not trained to work at the bedside.

This is absolutely true. I'm currently a C.M.A. I was specifically trained to work in the doctors office. I have no training to work in the hospital. A lot of times for older people when I try to describe the difference in roles between an M.A. and an L.P.N. - I explain that LPN's are trained to work under R.N.'s in the hospital setting. They are trained to start IV's, insert catheters and things that you would no do in the physician's office. As an M.A. I've been trained to work directly under the physician, and bonus training in insurance and coding. The length of training is the same, but the focuses are different. A well educated MA is just as good as a well educated LPN or RN - if they are in their scope of practice, as with every profession.

anonymurse · Aug 17, 2010

We have a CMA who says she's as good as a RN. But she only gets used as a sitter.

st4rl4dy · Aug 18, 2010

A doctor's office with some MAs is ok, but a hospital full of MA's? whose license are they practicing under? At the end of the day MA school doesn't teach what nursing school does and replacing nurses with MAs sounds like hiring a bunch of people then training then for at least six months.

SpecialtyMA · Aug 18, 2010

I feel far more comfortable with LPN in those roles. Actually, the clinic to which I go does not utilize MAs; LPNs do the patient intake and assist the physicians and the only RN on staff is the clinic manager. I have seen RNs employed in clinics only in supervisory or specialty roles (such as oncology.)

I'd suggest looking into the exact training a CMA has versus an LPN. You won't find a lot of difference in regards to a doctor's office setting. A hospital setting is different. Unless you need a cath or an IV started in the office, an MA is going to be a lot more well rounded to help you through your entire visit. I have done a lot of hiring of MA's and LPN's for physician's offices. They are getting the EXACT same pay rate.

inspired01 · Sep 20, 2010

The 2 year associate MA program is just as much learning as the registered nursing. The MA do their training in clinics, but are now moving into different departments of hospitals. Soon these hospital administrations will be placing them in patient care. Paperwork, anybody can do that. There are no RN in the teaching hospital (hugh teaching hospital) here in this large city where I live. They have MA to give the immunizations, to start the IV's, to educate the patient and family, to remove and reapply dressings, to clean wounds-MAs care for all ages. My MA, told me that she just passed all her certifications for IV therapy, and she and two others were among 6 other registered nurses. Her friend (another MA) scored the highest on the final. I call my MA from time to time, and she advises me. She is really good. Her schooling was hard. She had to pass two pharmacy classes that were really hard. So, I think that the new title for RN is MA.

I was in nursing school, but I changed my major to pharmacy, they make more than both an RN and an MA. I will tell you this, medical doctors like the MA. The public likes them too. My elderly friend next door was having trouble losing weight, and I referred her to my MA who specializes in womens care, and my elderly friend walks every evening, and she told me that she can feel a great difference in her life. My MA gave her a walking pamphlet to record her walking, and she also gave her a list of healthy foods to eat, and my neighbor looks great, and elderly lady that almost looked like she was hunched over with weight, wow...what a difference.

The MA program is very competitive. They are like mini doctors.

inspired01 · Sep 20, 2010

MA's are trained to treat the physician's patients. If the physician goes to the hospital to debris a wound, yes the MA has every right to go into the hospital room and assist the physician, the MA is the physicians's assistant by all means and the MA can write orders and the physician sign them for the Rn to follow. This legal practice is stated in the hospital physician contract and the physician can have an assistant under his/her practice to treat patients in the hospital or the clinic or the office. MA are wonderful caretakers.