Medical Assistants to replace RN's?

OCNRN63, RN · Sep 21, 2010

You haven't exactly been very forthcoming about the state where this supposedly took place, let alone what city or hospital.

AmericanRN · Sep 21, 2010

I did not mean to provoke a maladaptive attitude committed by anyone by any means. It is very true, yes, hospitals are just in the early phases of hiring MA. The MA will practice under their own insurance, it can be obtained, yes indeed it can. In the clinic setting, the MA practices under the physician's license, and yes they are like the nurse, they give immunizations, educated families about every aspect of health, they administer medications, they learn in their schooling and do a lot with the physician. Physicians The MA degree-associate degree- is also transfer credits to the medical university here for applying for the Physicians Assistant program, but there are just a couple more chemistry classes the MA, or a 2 year Rn for all that matters, to apply. Hey, what makes the difference, there is only one right way to give immunizations, RNs are not the only professions to administer and take care of patients. No. I know one physician that takes his MA to the hospital on the orthopedic unit to evaluate how the patients are walking after surgery, and the RN's respect her. The RN's notice her as doing her job under the authority of a physician. As a matter of fact the MA will find the RN and inquire about the status of his patients, and the MA is advised accordingly. The MA position is very prestigious indeed. MA-certified of course-is a growing profession, and they are dedicated to taking care of people in whatever setting they are in, clinic, or hospital. Getting into the program here is very competitive, "very competitive."
I think the world of MA's, they chart on patients, they administer medical care, they educate the patient and the families patients. They know pharmacology very well, they learn mental health care, nutritional care. They are taught the nursing process. So, it is a new wave indeed. I suspect that there will soon be bylaws for each state for the practice of MA.
Oh, one thing I wanted to mention. The MA that accompanies the physician to the hospital for 6am rounds, has the right to access supplies on the nursing floor. While we were getting report for day shift, the MA peeked in the nursing report room and told the RN that she took the first bandage off of a Total knee repair for the physician, and then she continued on telling the order that the doctor wrote for further care. The RN's jaw dropped and said you took the bandage off and she said yes, she was assisting the physician on rounds, and then she told the RN the orders were in the chart at the front desk. We were all shocked. Is was crazy, I do have to admit, but what can we do but follow the physician written orders as the MA advised. The RNs are part of a hospital nursing team, the MA is part of the physician medical team. Yes, the title are very different, but responsibilities are not.
So, later after report, the RN went into the patients room, and the patient told the RN that the physician's MA took her dressing off, and pulled back the blanket, and sure enough a fresh sterile dry dressing had been indeed applied. The RNs face expression was unbelievable. Later the RN spoke to the nurse manager about the situation. The nurse manager stated, the MA can do as the physician advises, the MA is practicing under license of the physician, and the MA is certified, and the MA can come to the hospital with the physician and practice procedures under the authority of the physician. The manager just stated, all you have to do is now what the physician has ordered. But, the thing is, the physician has to be present and authorize the MA.

This is not to put MAs down but either you're a troll or confusing MAs with PAs. Far as surgeon allowing an MA to remove the first bandage after a total knee replacement yeah right, thats laughable. First off most ortho surgeons do the first dressing change themselves the single handed exception I've EVER seen to that was a surgeon having a particular PA do it. Notice I said PARTICULAR as opposed to just any ole PA under the sun. Another thing what would be the point in having an MA at the thospital if the physician has to accompany them at all times? The ENTIRE point of being a PA is to do certain things within the scope of practice for a particular state that free the MDs up for other stuff. MDs don't need a shadow buddy so why would they want an MA for hospital rounds?

MAs are not part of the medical scope of practice in any state.

You are right about one thing is the fact that an MA is CERTIFIED as opposed to LPNs, RNs, PAs, MDs, DOs, NPs, we are all LICENSED. MDs, DOs and PAs LICENSED through the medical board and LPNs, RNs, NPs, etc through board of nursing. See how it works?

inspired01 · Sep 21, 2010

Ok. You are not going to win on this one. Yes, The MA removed the dressing. So, do you want me to do a freakin back flip off the back porch or what? The MA remove dressing all the time in the office as well for the physician. No, I am not confusing MA with the PA. As a matter of fact, the RN did not questioned the MAs ability to remove the dressing while the physician was present. Apparently, the physician is satisfied with his medical staff and felt that he hired the MA to assist with the medical treatments on his patients. MA are taught in their clinical to do dressing changes, to remove them, and reapply them. Family members are educated and showed how to dressing changes on the family member that they are participating in the care of their family member, or another person for all that matter. Health care is changing, the doctor is not a nurse, why would you think he could change a dressing? Exactly, he is trained, the MA is trained and people who attend nursing school are trained, and family members are trained.

I've witnessed nurses remove the first dressing of ortho patients. I know that "some" doctors want to do the first dressing change, take off the first dressing, but the physician can also request a nurse, or his MA to remove the first dressing. Hospital stays are becoming shorter stays for the patients, and the follow up care is continued in the officer. MA do attend seminars with the physicians on patient care too. It truly is a wonderful career choice in today's changing economy. Doctors do not shadow MA, they do not shadow nurses either. The physicians are very serious in who they hire to assist them in patient care. :yeah:

inspired01 · Sep 21, 2010

Try one time not to do what a physician has ordered his MA to tell a nurse to do, and write a phone order, and then tell the physician you refused orders from his MA. See how this works?

inspired01 · Sep 21, 2010

be sure to listen at 2:05.

Editorial Team / Admin · Sep 21, 2010

Please bring the discussion back to the issue at hand, without personal insults and insinuations.

Thank you.

OgopogoLPN, LPN, RN · Sep 21, 2010

be sure to listen at 2:05.

So, it's an ad for an MA program. And it states they do practicums in a hospital. Wow...you've just proved all your points. :uhoh3:

Anyways, I'm done with this thread. As per the above moderator's warning, I will leave out any personal insults except to say in the nicest possible way that I don't believe a word you typed and I will no longer be wasting my time trying to get you to actually prove what you are saying or even where any of this could possibly taking place.

Have a nice day.

classykaren · Sep 21, 2010

I have read were some private schools have been lying to students telling them they can make 65,000 per year as a MA lol

smartnurse1982 · Sep 21, 2010

What's strange is many med assistants have more education than some of us nurses. I guess ma's do get tired of beibg berated by nurses. As for the op,I do se lpns being replaced with med assistants.

BabyLady, BSN, RN · Sep 21, 2010

Hello RN's. I took my daughter to the UW Children's Hospital in Madison yesterday. The nurse my daughter had was excellent. She took the time to educate my daughter on a couple of issues, and was very personable. When thanking her for the time and expertise she had shown, she stated that the whole hospital is in the process of replacing RN's with Medical Assistants to save money. She also stated that this is happening in places around the nation. My first question is has anyone been noticing this or know anything about this?

She is wrong...not going to happen.

An RN, while working at the hospital, works under their own license as an employee of the hospital.

A medical assistant, that has NO license, works under the physician....and their license, that is why some MA's in doctor's offices can give injections, etc. However, in some states, this practice is banned.

Physicians are not employees of the hospital, they are on contract, so therefore, a MA has no licensed personnel to work under.

If they give a medication or anything else, with bare minimal training, that is a lawsuit waiting to happen and beyond out of scope of practice.

BabyLady, BSN, RN · Sep 21, 2010

What's strange is many med assistants have more education than some of us nurses. I guess ma's do get tired of beibg berated by nurses. As for the op,I do se lpns being replaced with med assistants.

Such as????

If you are an MA with a degree in History...it doesn't trickle down to healthcare.

I know of no 4-year degree in medical assisting.

2ndcareerchange · Sep 22, 2010

I know I am coming in on the tail end of this, but there are MA's in our hospital in the ER. In fact the thing that bothers me is you cant tell the LPNs, RNs from the MAs. The hospital no longer employs CNAs, just MAs. But after reading this thread, an interesting question did come to my mind.... Our ER docs and PAs are no longer part of our hospital... they are outsourced... they formed their own company, but the RNs, LPNs and the MAs are hospital employees... so who are the MAs working under? do they still get to say they are working under the docs? And the MAs do a lot, just like a poster said... start iv's take blood, VS, education, etc... honestly you dont know who is who.... some of them even tell the patients I am one of your nurses today. A dr friend of mine told me the hospital confuses patients on purpose to make it seem like they have a higher level of care available. I have to say, I cant wait to get transfered to the ER when I get my LPN, but just for the ER experience, then I want to move on. Sometimes I think the hospitals methods are not steady. For example when you first walk into the ER, the "greeter" is a MA and she/he is the one who rates your emergency. Granted some of them are really good, but its not what I want as a precursor to care. After the greeter, you wait according to ranking to see the triage RN. but it seems to me those moments might be critical for a patient if its busy. We are a small hospital so its not that busy.

The thing about MAs is the schooling is the basic of AP and biology, but they also learn phlme, coding, documenting,.... the schools also take advantage of them finanically, give them unrealistic job expectations, and set them off. The thing at my hospital is how little they make... just a little over $10.00 per hour for all they do. Some larger hospitals in the area, CNAs make more. But like I said they blend in so well you might think you are talking to a nurse who makes twice their salary. The ones I spoke to told me they paid well over 16,000 to 20,000 for their certification from schools like Lincoln tech and such.... they never want to go to the state schools and pay less... too many lines, harder to get in etc... can you image paying that much for such little pay? how do they make the student loan payments? But the wave is there, where they are replacing LPNs anyway, not so much RNs, but the need for less RNs are there. We have 18 MAs on per shift, and 8 RNs and LPNs per shift. My counting could be off, but its close.

my two cents....:spbox: