MD's treat male nurses with more respect?

TheCommuter, BSN, RN · Dec 13, 2015

In my personal experience, the only physicians who have treated male nurses more respectfully are the ones who were born and raised in a specific handful of foreign countries. Like it or not, but the culture in which a person was raised definitely has a lasting impact on their views of women.

Vana21, ADN, BSN, RN · Dec 13, 2015

I'm fortunate that most of the cardiologists I work with understand if they take a second to educate me on why they're making a decision, that it benefits them in the long run.

I've only had one yell at me and the backlash he got from everyone on the unit made him realize he was in the wrong and he came back to apologize.

emmy27 · Dec 13, 2015

The majority of doctors I've worked with have been respectful and collaborative. I have had the misfortune to meet a few bad apples, and at one facility with a very unprofessional medical director who was known for favoritism, attempts to pit staff against each other, and yelling in front of patients, there was a clear hierarchy of how well he'd treat nurses, with young female nurses willing to overlook his sexual harassment at the top, male nurses next, older female nurses third, and anyone who complained about his behavior at the bottom and targeted for public verbal abuse. In his case, I think he was just a bully and a sexist in his private life and carried that in to his professional life as well, and having a position of authority gave him a big platform to do it from.

I've also seen older male doctors, especially those who are still in private practice with admitting privileges, who display different behavior to male and female staff, expecting female nurses to embody the standard of deference that was expected when they began their careers, while treating male nurses more collegially. These are unusual cases, but not so unusual that I'm shocked when it happens.

Most doctors are professionals who treat others well, but sexism was baked right in to the establishment of nursing and medicine as intertwined disciplines, and there are practitioners still alive from the time when that was made explicit in the conduct expected of doctors and nurses. It's not surprising that there are echoes of that still visible from time to time.

Bluebolt · Dec 13, 2015

The majority of doctors I've worked with have been respectful and collaborative. I have had the misfortune to meet a few bad apples, and at one facility with a very unprofessional medical director who was known for favoritism, attempts to pit staff against each other, and yelling in front of patients, there was a clear hierarchy of how well he'd treat nurses, with young female nurses willing to overlook his sexual harassment at the top, male nurses next, older female nurses third, and anyone who complained about his behavior at the bottom and targeted for public verbal abuse. In his case, I think he was just a bully and a sexist in his private life and carried that in to his professional life as well, and having a position of authority gave him a big platform to do it from.
I've also seen older male doctors, especially those who are still in private practice with admitting privileges, who display different behavior to male and female staff, expecting female nurses to embody the standard of deference that was expected when they began their careers, while treating male nurses more collegially. These are unusual cases, but not so unusual that I'm shocked when it happens.
Most doctors are professionals who treat others well, but sexism was baked right in to the establishment of nursing and medicine as intertwined disciplines, and there are practitioners still alive from the time when that was made explicit in the conduct expected of doctors and nurses. It's not surprising that there are echoes of that still visible from time to time.

Well said.

emmy27 · Dec 13, 2015

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With the female nurses I observed to see if I noticed the same interaction. I feel like I did see a lot of the same relationship, maybe slightly different. I actually noticed that a few nurses seemed to create a barrier between themselves and the doctor with a subservient attitude, "yes doctor" "anything you want doctor" "do you want my seat doctor" "can I get you the chart doctor". I also heard quite a few nurses say things like "but I'm just the nurse, what do I know" and other demeaning things about themselves.

I don't doubt that you've observed this, but I think on some level this is probably in part due to the fact that the same behavior from men and women is often received very differently- what's seen as assertive in men is "aggressive" in women, etc. So women have an incentive in many cases to speak more deferentially or self-deprecatingly than might actually be warranted- because it often makes whatever it is they're trying to say go over better.

This is a well-documented thing and blaming individuals for failure to behave in a way that they've been strongly socialized not to, because you've been socialized to do that and it works for you, is... short-sighted.

Here's an article on the dilemma women face when pitching their assertiveness level in the workplace:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/on-leadership/wp/2013/07/09/women-leaders-and-the-goldilocks-syndrome-not-too-harsh-not-too-soft/

ambr46 · Dec 13, 2015

I have seen a few physicians be demeaning and rude but they didn't discriminate between the genders.

sweetie13 · Dec 13, 2015

there is no doubt all doctors relate differently with male nurses, no doubt. I have never been anything but professional with doctors yet many do not value my information. and I became so sick at 57 years of age with mono and I still shocked and amazed by the abusive non care by many male doctors. I was actually yelled at and belittled and was just short of being told I was a liar. that was 6 years ago . I have never recovered. I am still as deathly ill as I was when I first became sick. does anyone think a doc would shout at a man with tats or in a business suit?????? I refuse to ever see any male doc ever again. after 30 years of nursing I feel like my whole career was a joke. there is no equality between male and female nurses. period.

Wrench Party · Dec 13, 2015

Haven't had this problem yet- we have text paging and on-call rounding teams or hospitalists for nights, so there's generally no " you woke me up in the middle of the night (insert Rantypants moment here)". I think the residents and fellows are way more scared of their surgeons than we are.

I did have the pleasure of witnessing a pretty rare moment: my charge nurse on the phone with the attending of a slowly decompensating patient at 3 am, and give him a piece of her mind about the orders placed by the rounding team and trying to avoid an RRT. Lo and behold, new orders appeared and a spot in the ICU magically cleared in the next hour and the patient was transferred.

SmilingBluEyes · Dec 13, 2015

I don't doubt that you've observed this, but I think on some level this is probably in part due to the fact that the same behavior from men and women is often received very differently- what's seen as assertive in men is "aggressive" in women, etc. So women have an incentive in many cases to speak more deferentially or self-deprecatingly than might actually be warranted- because it often makes whatever it is they're trying to say go over better.
Exactly. I have seen over and over, being "assertive" as a women is actually interpreted as being a "b" word
This is a well-documented thing and blaming individuals for failure to behave in a way that they've been strongly socialized not to, because you've been socialized to do that and it works for you, is... short-sighted.
Here's an article on the dilemma women face when pitching their assertiveness level in the workplace:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/on-leadership/wp/2013/07/09/women-leaders-and-the-goldilocks-syndrome-not-too-harsh-not-too-soft/

Because being "assertive" as a woman is often either seen as being "aggressive" or "bytchy". But in men, it's expected and valued. Fortunately, I don't concern myself with such opinions and assert myself as needed. I got over worrying such opinions a while ago....and am raising my own daughter to be strong and have convictions in hers.

allnurses Guide · Dec 13, 2015

The other day one of our Docs brought us a two pound box of candy in thanking him I said You a are a prince among men! He answered how come you don't talk about me like that more often. I said I have never had a negative comment about you lovable little curmudgeon. Bear in Mind I have known this doc for 17 years and we have crossed paths in 4 different facilities.

FurBabyMom, MSN, RN · Dec 14, 2015

I've never really seen an issue. I guess in my first jobs there was some difference...but in the scheme of things, I worked those units for a cumulative 10 months. Barely anything when you consider my career. There was also a regional cultural difference in that area from other areas I've lived and worked. Though, the male nurses I worked with at the first job I had as an RN? He was a c*cky jerk. None of the physicians like him. So...there was that.

In my current job, working with the services and surgeons I work with most of the time? We're treated very well. I'm blessed to work with the surgeons I work with routinely, they do value all of their coworkers and generally promote teamwork. They have moments, but we all do. I've had two attendings yell - not even at me, but profusely apologize over it. In those instances it *was* something that was deserved.

On some of the other services in our OR? Not the same can be said. We *tolerate* being off service...

Bluebolt · Dec 14, 2015

there is no doubt all doctors relate differently with male nurses, no doubt. I have never been anything but professional with doctors yet many do not value my information. and I became so sick at 57 years of age with mono and I still shocked and amazed by the abusive non care by many male doctors. I was actually yelled at and belittled and was just short of being told I was a liar. that was 6 years ago . I have never recovered. I am still as deathly ill as I was when I first became sick. does anyone think a doc would shout at a man with tats or in a business suit?????? I refuse to ever see any male doc ever again. after 30 years of nursing I feel like my whole career was a joke. there is no equality between male and female nurses. period.

Wow, that sounds like an extreme case... I hope you get to feeling better. As a male nurse I wouldn't treat you like that.