Mandated overtime. What?

BrandonLPN, LPN · Jan 28, 2014

I think you see it more in LTC because of the different staffing ratios. If I were to call in for my 11-7 shift, there would literally be no licensed nurse whatsoever for my floor. There is no option BUT to mandate an RN or LPN from 3-11 to stay over.

It's not a mtter of "running short". It's a matter of not having any nurse at all.

anotherone, BSN, RN · Jan 28, 2014

You are scheduled 7a to 7p. 7pm comes and due to call offs, or not enough scheduledd nurses there are not enough nurses. No one wants to stay, no one agreed to come, they are short as it is so there isn't anyone for you to give report to. That means you (most places use a list and staff gets rotated) get to stay until 11pm or what ever your facility allows for. ayou did not agree to the OT per se, it was mandated. you have no one to report off to, so you must stay on as the nurse .

dudette10, MSN, RN · Jan 28, 2014

Is this a state requirement, a federal requirement, a facility policy, what? Or, is a NPA requirement where you must have someone to report off to, otherwise it is abandonment. Which leads me to this: why is the shift nurse required to stay over if that nurse is not the person notified for call offs. Why doesn't the person who is taking the call off calls the one to pick up the shift?

anotherone, BSN, RN · Jan 28, 2014

Is this a state requirement, a federal requirement, a facility policy, what? Or, is a NPA requirement where you must have someone to report off to, otherwise it is abandonment. Which leads me to this: why is the shift nurse required to stay over if that nurse is not the person notified for call offs. Why doesn't the person who is taking the call off calls the one to pick up the shift?

I am not sure who would stay? In a large facility , they may have MANY 15+ call offs, a supervisor isnt going to be able to fill them nor are they capable of for many units. ( I highky doubt any nursing supervisor in a large hospital can jump in and work in most units. ) as for management, in some facilities they do not so pt care and if it is an off shift or weekend they aren't around. do you work in acute care? what if there were 2 call offs and your unit was already short? peoplr always agree to stay or come in?! I am suprised hospitals and other facilities can manage without mandation. do you just work short taking 1-2 more pts? I guess it is staff nurses responsibility for the same reason everything else is....

xoemmylouox, ASN, RN · Jan 28, 2014

Is this a state requirement a federal requirement, a facility policy, what? Or, is a NPA requirement where you must have someone to report off to, otherwise it is abandonment. Which leads me to this: why is the shift nurse required to stay over if that nurse is not the person notified for call offs. Why doesn't the person who is taking the call off calls the one to pick up the shift?[/quote']
If you leave it will be your BON that disciplines you for abandonment, of course after your employer fires you and reports you. The person who takes the call off information isn't always even a nurse. Plus if you have multiple call offs that person can not care for several groups of patients. Being mandated sucks, but it happens. If you don't want it I suggest transitioning to an outpatient 9-5 job.

Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN · Jan 28, 2014

Is this a state requirement, a federal requirement, a facility policy, what? Or, is a NPA requirement where you must have someone to report off to, otherwise it is abandonment. Which leads me to this: why is the shift nurse required to stay over if that nurse is not the person notified for call offs. Why doesn't the person who is taking the call off calls the one to pick up the shift?

Many places have staffing offices run by non nurses

Niki_RN · Jan 28, 2014

In my facility, if someone called in sick and we become short staffed, hospital staffing will try to find someone else to work for that shift. They try to contact other floors and they try to call nurses from all over the hospital to volunteer to work. If they really can't find anyone, our manager will come in and work that shift until she can find someone else, or until she can find a way to make it work somehow. But the previous nurse can't leave until there's a nurse she can give hand off reports to.

HouTx, BSN, MSN, EdD · Jan 28, 2014

Some states have laws that prohibit this... including mine. In Tx, mandatory overtime is only permitted in cases of true emergency or natural disaster. Also, if a nurse refuses mandatory overtime, it cannot be considered patient abandonment. Here's the reference Mandatory Overtime/Consecutive Shifts

I have taught management skills for a while.. one of the most basic staffing precepts is "overtime is not an acceptable staffing strategy". If this occurs on a regular basis, there is definitely something wrong with the way the organization is being managed.

dudette10, MSN, RN · Jan 28, 2014

To answer some of the questions, I work acute care now, and I've worked in two different facilities. I've never been mandated, and I don't think anyone ever has where I've worked. As someone mentioned, if there is a call off, a nurse from another floor is floated if possible, otherwise, agency or registry is called in.

My question wasn't related to what's happening in my workplace, but rather from reading posts from people on this site about mandation, and I just wanted to know more about it. Thanks for your responses!

Here.I.Stand, BSN, RN · Jan 28, 2014

Some states do have laws regarding this; mine is one of them. A nurse can't be threatened or penalized if the nurse doesn't feel safe to stay and work (disaster situations are different). You can ask Google if yours does. Also, if this is something you really want to avoid you can ask potential employers about their policies upfront. I was a CNA at a hospital that mandated and I decided I didn't want to be in that position as I have small kids that need me during my scheduled off hours.

But I've never had an issue...I have worked in two large hospitals with float pools, and an LTACH that used agency nurses if none of the PRN staff could come and work. I also worked for a SNF that had staffing difficulties that the hospitals didn't, but I don't remember anyone being mandated. They couldn't always find someone to come in but were good about negotiating with people to stay...usually they offered to take the OT person off the schedule for the next day so they didn't have to double AND double-back.

Once while there I did have to stay from 7-3 into 3-11 b/c of a severe blizzard. Everybody that *tried* to come in for 3-11 got stuck; the whole house had to stay for that reason. For a while it looked like we were going to have to stay all night also; my partner and I planned to tag-team for the 11-7 shift since the norm was 2 nurses for days/PMs and 1 nurse for nocs, taking turns working and napping in one of the empty beds. But by then some of the staff were able to get in. While this was all going on, management (who were at home--this happened on a Saturday) got on their phones and found other nurses to pick up Sunday so that those of us who doubled could stay home.

KelRN215, BSN, RN · Jan 29, 2014

I see often nurses posting that they were mandated to work overtime. I have worked in only two facilities, both hospitals, and I have never heard of such a thing. In both places, if another nurse is needed after her shift ends, the charge has asked for people to stay over, but it's never been required.
Is this a state-by-state thing? A facility-by-facility thing? Am I seeing it more when it comes to LTC than in other specialties?
Fill me in. What is this "mandated overtime" thing?

And what if no one volunteered to stay, no one volunteered to come in, there were no registry/float pool nurses and no other floors had a nurse to spare? You might not have ever experienced this situation but my bet is your workplace would mandate just like the rest of ours would/have in this situation.