man holding wife still during epidural dies!

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Just read the ap report about a woman in labor at a kaiser hospital. Apparently the anethesia professional (don't know which kind crna, mda or aa) asked the husband to help hold the wife still while the needle was inserted into the epidural space of her back and, he saw the needle going in and fainted, fell over and hit his head, suffered a fatal brain bleed and died 2 days later. Of course the wife is sueing, stating that he was asked to assist the procedure and so "reasonable" care should have been taken to prevent reasonable forseable complications/accidents. My thoughts as a simply a student, is that this is a firviolous lawsuit, and the lawyer that is encouraging her to go forth with this case should be ashamed. Also I am so saddened for this family to have such a joyous event marred and a life gone without warning. I guess to all of you L/D nurses and CRNA's etc... don't ask a family member to help hold the mom still. :uhoh21: What are your takes on this?

just had a question for all of you professionals out there. If the dad faints or any visitor for that matter, and is clearly not himself or say is unconcious, what happens? Do you call the ER for someone to come up to get him or is he responsible for getting down there himself because he isn't a patient, or do you call 911 (i know seems silly) because of liability issues... Anyone know what to do here?...

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Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.

I would call for help and have him transported to our ED for assessment and treatment emergently/ASAP. My responsibility still is to mom, and I would have to stay with her while he was being seen in our ED. If I am violating a regulation of some sort, I am unaware of it. That is just the gut-level first thing I would do.

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just had a question for all of you professionals out there. If the dad faints or any visitor for that matter, and is clearly not himself or say is unconcious, what happens? Do you call the ER for someone to come up to get him or is he responsible for getting down there himself because he isn't a patient, or do you call 911 (i know seems silly) because of liability issues... Anyone know what to do here?...

We had a grandmother get sick once and we tried calling the ER to come up. They cannot do that. You would ahve to call a code to get a team to come. We had to transport her to the ER ourselves. I know that sounds stupid but ther us some legal reason for that and I do not know what it is.

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Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.
We had a grandmother get sick once and we tried calling the ER to come up. They cannot do that. You would ahve to call a code to get a team to come. We had to transport her to the ER ourselves. I know that sounds stupid but ther us some legal reason for that and I do not know what it is.
good to hear from someone who had dealt with this ...thanks Betsy.
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We had a grandmother get sick once and we tried calling the ER to come up. They cannot do that. You would ahve to call a code to get a team to come. We had to transport her to the ER ourselves. I know that sounds stupid but ther us some legal reason for that and I do not know what it is.

We are a small hospital . . . .our ER is not that far from L&D.

When I had my 2nd seizure in the L&D room (1st was in the ER) (coincidentally when the CRNA was just beginning to get set up for an epidural) . . . .the CRNA caught me as I went to the floor and the Dad ran down the hall calling for help. It is my understanding that nurses from St. 1 and the EMT's and the doc and nursing sup all came to L&D to get me. Onto a gurney I went and off to the ER while another nurse took my place.

steph

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Specializes in Critical Care.

We have a first responders team that covers our facility, the attached clinic and all the areas belonging to the two. That covers a good 5 or 6 block area. Anytime something happens in our cath lab we make sure the person is OK, get a cart for them and one of our nurses takes them to the ER.

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Specializes in Happily semi-retired; excited for the whole whammy.

It was up to the professionals to ensure this man was safe while participating in a medical procedure. If the definition of a frivolous lawsuit is one with no merit, then this certainly doesn't qualify. Mom is going to win real damages, not just have a (relatively) few dollars thrown at her to make her go away.

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I don't think it's a frivolous suit. A professional (RN) should have been holding, not dad. The nurse assigned to the mother should not have permitted dad to "help", and the anesthesia provider shouldn't have asked. Some people faint when seeing medical proceedures.

JMO

Which one is better; a significant other to provide support or a stranger, a nursing staff member?

I haven't read all the other posts but I think sueing for this matter isn't right.

I guess that's why policies and procedures are always being updated for the safety of the clients and all involved.

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Specializes in Happily semi-retired; excited for the whole whammy.
Which one is better; a significant other to provide support or a stranger, a nursing staff member?

I haven't read all the other posts but I think sueing for this matter isn't right.

I guess that's why policies and procedures are always being updated for the safety of the clients and all involved.

Obviously, for this guy, the stranger holding the patient would have worked out better. I don't say that to be glib. There were very real, very forseeable consequences to what this guy was asked to do. A very rare consequence, but not one that couldn't have been forseen. In this day and age, it is important for healthcare providers to CTA. I'm one for erring on the side of caution myself.

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Man, things happen. It is not necessary that a "professional " RN hold a patient during an epidural..It is necessary that one be there and be RIGHT there keeping an eye on mom and dad or whoever to anticipate something like that although, just as in life, THINGS HAPPEN THAT WE DONT EXPECT...There is no reason in the world why husbands, significant others or anyone else can't help hold the patient. With that logic, fathers shouldn't be allowed in the delivery room because they MIGHT faint have have a similar injury. I think the woman is suing mostly because she is in disbelief and grieving and I would bet that it was HER or her HUSBAND's idea to help each other out in the first place, which, if there was a nurse present, he or she could attest to that. Very sad but certainly not a result of the very popular practice of having a significant other support his loved one in the procedure. That is almost as silly (to me that is) as a nurse running out of one of our patient's rooms insisting (and telling the patient) that there was no way she was supposed to get in the bathtub because she had ruptured membranes and was on pitocin....Why not? We have remote telemetry and a nurse...What is the deal with ruptured membranes in a tub? We are TRYING to be less interventional these days. I suppose I could sue the hospital I worked at for one nurse giving me the wrong antibiotic and nearly killing me with anaphylaxis but should I?

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Specializes in Happily semi-retired; excited for the whole whammy.
I suppose I could sue the hospital I worked at for one nurse giving me the wrong antibiotic and nearly killing me with anaphylaxis but should I?

Why are you asking us what you "should" do? You entrusted your health to these people, and they made a mistake that put you in harm's way. You can choose to forgive that error, but the fact is that the law allows patients to seek redress when the trust they've put in healthcare professionals turns out to be misplaced. With our license to practice comes responsibility. Failing in that responsibility doesn't necessarily make us incompetent, but it does mean that we have to answer for our mistakes. Only you can decide what you "should" do, based on your own values and beliefs, and what damage you feel was caused by this mistake.

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Sometimes mom is so out of control that only a family memeber can calm her down to sit for an epidural, in my 12 yrs of being an L&D nurse I have let this happen once, but never again I guess mom won't be getting an epidural, because I will CMA :thankya:

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