LPNs Supervising RNs

Published

UPDATE: Changes: New Log In Requirement

I am a "mature" RN who left the field of long term care after nearly 30 years. After several years off,I decided to return and took a job with an agency. My first day back was with a LTC facility and my job was to pass meds. I find that my direct supervisor, who was the unit charge nurse was an LPN. Back in the day, this would never have happened. I have always had great respect for LPNs but their area of practice was not equilivant to mine. I found it quite uncomfortable to digress to a young woman who frankly didn't know what she didn't know. I refused to carry out an order that I felt was a detrement to my patient. I felt I was within my scope of practice. My question is: Has this happened to any one else or has things changed so much that we now have LPNs supervising RNs.

Specializes in CCU,ICU,ER retired.
The bottom line is and everyone knows that it is true that LPN's and CNA's are the low men on the pole and it is no secret. It doesn't matter if you have 1000 years experience behind you as an LPN, it is based on the initials behind your name. That is why I went on and I get much more respect in the profession as an RN than an LPN.

OHHHHHHHH please let me kiss your hem

Up Vote Up Vote ×

:banghead:this is what lpns can't do that rns can:

1. they cannot complete the planning of phase of the nursing process independently (ie, they can contribute to a care plan but not write it)

2. generally, they cannot push iv meds (depends on the state)

3. they should not be responsible for an initial assessment

4. they are not able to make a nursing diagnosis

5. they are not able to evaluate nursing care

6. they should not do the initial patient teaching, although they may reinforce it.:banghead:

all of the above was my job as a resident care cord in ltf , for over 6 years. 1#i did the admit on patients from start to finish, i wrote all the care plans,

2#i was the charge nurse the only person who i answered to was the don.

3# i was also a supervisor , 40 patients in my care on my unit.

now tell me if i am not allowed to do this then how was it i passed every state visit. if we are not allowed to do these jobs we would not hold them.

and quess who helps train new gn's. and rn's. in the acute care hospital i work @ now . answer their questions & teach them how to start iv's

i am in rn school now and there is no different in my classess as they were in lpn school yes a little deeper in assessments. but nothing i do not already know as an lpn for the last 12years.

and my scope practice i can't push iv medications the end.

my hospital sets more limits than my state does.

and i am a nurse!!!!! period .... if you do not think so then you are very ignorant and you need further education your self ..

and for the record i have never had a patient who has survived a code blue ask "if the person who helped save my life was an an rn or lpn? "or the family members i have helped after the death of a loved one has passed say " if the nurse who cared for my mom was an rn and not an lpn, then maybe the cancer would no have killed mom if it was an rn taking care of her" i hear tell the nurses thank you !!!!!!!

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Pediatrics (Burn ICU, CVICU).
LPNs get the same exact education RNs do. Part of the scope of practice is different. They didn't learn anything different from what an RN would learn in school. I have a friend who is in an LPN program, her nursing books were the same as mine when I was in school. Yes, LPNs can supervise RNs. We are in a day and age where we need to stop thinking that LVN/LPNs are below those of us who are RNs.

Lady J, I find your post to be rude and demeaning and IGNORANT and I AM AN RN. I find it quite disturbing that after all this time, LPNs are still looked down upon as pieces of dirt in nursing. If you look at any LPN program, their books are the same as any RN program. They have to take A/p, pharmacology, microbiology. Their scope of practice is not that different than an RN's scope of practice.

I agree that LPN's are a very valuable asset to the nursing profession. However, LPN's DO NOT get the same education that RN's do. Assessments, physiology, and many other areas in an LPN program are not nearly as in depth as that of an RN program.

I, too, do not think that an LPN should supervise an RN. That would be like a resident physician supervising an attending.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Cardiac, Med-Surg, ICU.
Let me ask this question. Do any of the RN's that were at one time LPN's feel like they are more of a nurse now that you are "real nurses"?

I learned my assessment skills as an LPN. I live in the state of Ohio and unfortunately the LPN scope of practice is very limited, therefore it was well worth it for me to go back to be an RN. Do I feel more of a nurse now? Not really. I left a tele position to go to ICU after I got my RN license because my job description was going to be pretty much the same, just a slight change in scope of practice (big deal, so I get to push IV meds).

The sad fact is that some people, and I am not targeting the original poster, have nothing better to do than to stir up trouble. And that poster knows exactly who they are and I am sure they are getting quite a lot of mileage out of ruffling feathers around here.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Gerontology, Med surg, Home Health.

And we wonder why so few people go into nursing these days. Nine pages of one type of nurse bashing another!

As my former administrator used to say:

Let's put on our big girl underpants, get over ourselves and get back to work!!

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in ICU/Critical Care.

:smiley_ab

Are we done yet? This thread would not have been so bad had a poster not gone on a rampage about how "backstabbing and unequal" LPNs are. I've never heard such ignorant comments before.

Anyhow, like another poster said, it's time to put our big girl panties and deal with it.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Back in the day, this would never have happened. I have always had great respect for LPNs but their area of practice was not equilivant to mine. My question is: Has this happened to any one else or has things changed so much that we now have LPNs supervising RNs.

You have to realize that you are in the present, 2008, this is not "back in the day" LPN's are well trained, capable of doing charge in LTC, knowledgeable and quite capable of critical thinking.

I think you are judging this nurse solely on the fact that she is an LPN rather than an RN. It is compassion and experience that a nurse possesses that makes her a good nurse not the initials behind her name.

While I agree there has to be guidelines that seperate LPN's and RN's such as LPN's not being allowed to do charge in a hospital, not that they are not capable but in LTC LPN's in charge are certainly the acception not the exception. You may need adjust you attitude. In case you're wondering I am an RN and proud of it ;)

Up Vote Up Vote ×
I disagree. RN's are taught more deeper assessment and leadership skills. I am an RN also and still wouldn't ever work under or for an LPN, end of story. LPN's don't have to take all the classes you listed, I know this because I was an LPN before I got my RN and yes there scope of practice is different. That is why we are called RN's and they are LPN's.:D

I wasn't taught leadership skills in nursing school. I am an RN. I learned leadership on the job. My assessment skills learned in school were basic and honed on the job.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in ICU/Critical Care.

While I have not seen LPNs in charge in a hospital unit, I've seen them on the med-surg units with their own assignment, doing their own assessments, passing out their patient's meds. I never saw an RN come running behind them to make sure their assessment was correct or to sign any of their documentation. I'd still consider an LPN my equal any day.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
hmmmmm...LPN's go to school for 10 months and RN's at an associate's program go for 2 years....at least in Massachusetts

At my LPN program in Connecticut, I went to school for 15 months FULL time Monday thru Friday 6.5 hrs a day. We didn't get breaks between semesters, no vacations, no Spring or Winter breaks, straight through for a full 15 months.

The ADN RN schools have 2 Spring and 2 Fall semester (total 16 months). Yes, its over a two year period but classes/clinicals are only over 16 months of the 24 months. And where we went full time, the ADN program isn't in class/clinicals as many hours a week as we are.

Thats one month difference between my program and the ADN program.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Oncology, Med Surg, Ortho.

Good nursing does not begin nor end with education; it is ultimately defined in practice on the floor. I'm a nurse educator and though I recognize RN/LVN scopes of practice are different, some of my LVNs have better assessment skills than some RNs who, frankly, I think got into nursing for the Greencard.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in LTC.

This was never intended to be a 10 page "slug Fest" its time we put this to rest. ENOUGH I needed a question answered to find out if I was in compliance with my states regulations and i wouldn't be putting my house and lifes saveings on the line if something went horribly wrong that I had no knowledge about. I have no great love for Certain RNs or Lpns for that matter. "Remember I said certain" don't confuse the fact that I mean YOU. To end this nonsence I contacted my state board of Nursing and a Malpractice Attorney this morning. According to the State: An LPN is permittedthe performance of "selected" nursing acts in the care of the ill, injured or infirmed under the direction of a licensed professional nurse whichdo not require the "Specialized skill ,Judgment and Knowledge required in PROFESSIONAL NURSING. Which means "That under no circumstances be it administrative or clinical can an RN be under the supervision of an LPN in my state. To quote the malpractice attorney "Are You Nuts?? Do you want to loose your license ?" So My friends my question has been answered. All of your snipeing is a moot point. My question did not deserve a 10 page reply. To some of you I hope your nursing skills are better than your communication skills. We are all members of the same club Worked too hard and payed too little. To quote one of the respondents,"Pull up your big girl pants and get back to work"...............Remember You wouldn't have what you have gained in this profession if BACK IN THE DAY didn't fight for the rights you now have.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
+ Join the Discussion