LPN versus CMA

kat7ap · Mar 27, 2008

I stumbled upon this forum through a Google search on the differences between LPN and CMA (Certified Medical Assistants) according to the public's opinion. As an actual Admissions Representative (not "recruiter") for an accredited technical school in Pennsylvania, I wanted to advise people to seriously do some extensive research. First of all, you will run across a few "recruiters" who are looking to wheel and deal you into going to their school. Let the record be straight, I do not do admissions enrollments this way. I don't work for the Army, so I hate the word "recruiter". What had lead me to researching this topic was due to an actual case I am dealing with at the moment.
The school I work for offers the Medical Assitant Sciences program, which when completed, will certify you as a Medical Assistant. There are various levels of MA's. If you notice in your searches, some MA programs only offer Diplomas or Certificates. Schools such as the one I work for, offers you an Associates Degree in Specialized Business, which is always much higher than a diploma or certificate. Keep in mind, some schools only do in-house clinical work too. Whereas others offer an externship to get you hands-on training. That is also key. And it is true, the MA field is one of the fastest growing fields through 2014. You can find that info in the Department of Labor website, as someone else pointed out.
Here is where the line gets blurred. The reason I had looked into this topic at all was because I have a potential student who is looking into both professions right now, but can't decide if she wants to take the "quick fix" route or the longer route. Basically, you can earn your LPN licensing in about a year, and RN in a little over 2. But...depending on where you are....you also have the issue of there being a long waiting list to even get into the program, as well as taking classes that do not pertain to your field just for "pre-requisits". I am talking a YEAR or more on the wait list. You have to realize, these are two totally different fields people. Do you want to do Long Term Care? Or Home Health Care with the elderly? Or are you looking to getting yourself in a doctor's office? We all want to make as much money as we can, but when it comes down to it...there is more to be looked at in the longrun.
Some important things to keep in mind when searching:
1. Is the school you are going to accredited? Make sure you do an extensive search on this. If you are looking for MA, check out the AAMA certification, as well as CAAHEP. If the school is not accredited by any one of those, do NOT go there.
2. Does the program seem legit? Often a school will try to sell you on the length and price of a school. Think of your job title. You are going to be taking care of people and literally having their lives in your hands. If a school says they can get you through in a year for only $10,000...does that seem right to you? (I am going by what I have heard and researched). We all want instant gratification, but sometimes you have to put in a little extra to get the most out of a program.
3. If you have doubts, ask! Tell your admissions rep that you want an in-depth discussion with a Program coordinator. Often times you will have people at the school who teach and run the program...talk to them! Sometimes the admissions rep doesn't know everything! (I can say that with full confidence).
And lastly, what do you want your ultimate goal to be? If you've heard of a CMA or LPN or RN, you've heard of obtaining your BSN then. Basically, that is the top of the line in Nursing today. To me personally, CMA and LPN are right on the same level. Yes, one might make more than the other. Yes, the LPN program is shorter in most cases. But both do about the same type of work, usually in different settings. Both are not quite RN's, and both have potential to move forward. As an LPN, most schools you attend do NOT transfer their credits to other schools (such as 4 year colleges that offer BSN). You'll most likely start working at a hospital who will put you through their RN program. You HAVE to go on for you RN and then try to go into an RN to BSN program. But, you don't have to have your LPN or RN in order to complete your BSN. I know for a fact that Medical Assistants can go from being just a Medical Assistant, to obtaining their BSN...as long as the school they went to is accredited and transfers their credits. There is a prestigious private institution here in PA called Alvernia College that has a BSN program and accepts our MA students in at JUNIOR STATUS! Which means that you have the potential to sit for you NCLEX-RN in the process, and then obtain your BSN as well. All within a little less than 3 years after getting your MA certification.
So folks, I know this was a lot of information to take in. But after reading some posts, I had to sign up for this and give you professional point of view. There are possibilities in both LPN and CMA, but one...is definitely NOT better than the other. If you define "better" as being "higher paid", then you really aren't concerned about being in the medical field to begin with. You will get what you pay for in either program, and you will be successful either way. It just depends on with path YOU see yourself going down...and knowing that its more of a matter of job description than it is anything else.
Best of luck. Let me know if you have any questions, I'd love to answer them and help you in making your choice.

While I appreciate your response to this thread I really have to disagree with most of your opinions regarding the differences between LPNs and CMAs. CMA and LPN are not the same level because quite frankly CMA is NOT a form of a nurse. Sure they are trained to do some nursing tasks, but their training is not the same. No Nursing Process is taught in their curriculum (google that if you are unsure what it means). I am not trying to put down CMAs. I am sure they are very valuable and well trained at what they do.

There is also the aspect of autonomy. LPNs are licensed nurses. We are held completely accountable for our actions which are governed by a state board who sets forth our scope of practice. Medical Assistants are not licensed and some not certified either, and do not share that same autonomy and legal responsibility.

The Nursing program at Alvernia College says they have advanced standing for LPNs, nothing is mentioned about CMAs. I'm guessing that your CMA students are admitted at junior level is because they have an associates degree with some of the required prerequisites for the nursing course? That must mean they still have to do the full 2 year nursing school part. For LPN-RN bridge programs, LPNs are usually admitted in the second year, by passing the first year of an RN program.

From what I know, CMAs who work in a hospital are employed as Patient Care Techs or basically a CNA which is a couple month program. We had several CMAs in my LPN class. I just don't see CMA as being the best stepping stone into the nursing field and it seems a little misleading to say it is. I'm sure CMA is a great fit for plenty of people out there and you are right that they must do lots of research before they decide. I may also emphasize that I am not at all trying to put down any CMAs, one is not better than the other, just different!

EricJRN, MSN, RN · Mar 27, 2008

First of all, you will run across a few "recruiters" who are looking to wheel and deal you into going to their school.

admissionsRep,

Believe it or not, we even run into wheelers and dealers here on Allnurses. Sometimes we're skeptical when people come to the site representing a certain school or product, but it sounds like you're open to discussion of some doubts I have after reading this post.

The school I work for offers the Medical Assitant Sciences program, which when completed, will certify you as a Medical Assistant.

Nursing programs definitely cannot make similar claims, as RN or LPN/LVN licensure requires that the student pass a rigorous exam even after completing the degree. I thought that the same was true for CMA or RMA certification though.

Schools such as the one I work for, offers you an Associates Degree in Specialized Business, which is always much higher than a diploma or certificate.

I think this is a great stretch. In fact, when I worked as a medical assistant in multiple clinics prior to my nursing career, I found just the opposite to be true. Take two students who start MA training at the same time. Student A gets a diploma and goes into the workforce for several months while Student B is still in school working on the AAS. If both applied to our clinic, the experienced non-degreed student would get that job just about every time.

Basically, you can earn your LPN licensing in about a year, and RN in a little over 2.

This is some good information. Many students need to hear it, because most are currently finding that it takes at least a year to complete prerequisites, whether for LPN/LVN or RN. However, I can flip open the paper any day of the week and find MA programs graduating students in six to seven months.

If you've heard of a CMA or LPN or RN, you've heard of obtaining your BSN then. Basically, that is the top of the line in Nursing today.

Nurses are currently being educated up to the doctoral level. A minimum of an MSN is generally required for entry into advanced practice, one of the most common forms of advancement in nursing today.

There is a prestigious private institution here in PA called Alvernia College that has a BSN program and accepts our MA students in at JUNIOR STATUS!

There are eighty-four approved RN programs in PA, but less than 10% of those programs had lower NCLEX pass rates than Alvernia College did during the last reporting period (10/06 to 9/07). I understand that program quality can be a matter of opinion, but would prestigious be a little bit of a stretch?

Please understand that our members appreciate unique viewpoints. We're just constantly on the lookout for potential misunderstandings or inaccuracies, as this information can literally change the course of a member's career.

txspadequeenRN, BSN, RN · Mar 27, 2008

first welcome to all-nurses ...i got kinda twitchy when i read this then i realized that you are sales pitching medical assisting and your school.... it is impossible to compare the two professions unless you have done both. i have done both and can tell you they are completely different in every aspect. they are not on the same level in no form or fashion.

to me personally, cma and lpn are right on the same level. .

admissionsRep · Mar 27, 2008

EricEnfermero:

Thank you for responding with some additional, accurate information. I think I was a little put off by some of the things I was reading from some posters, that I wasn't fully clear on a few things that you pointed out. Anymore today, you find this huge debate between LPN and CMA, or LPN and RN. Essentially, its all for the same cause. Everyone takes pride in the work they do, so they tend to get defensive in cases such as these. Part of my job is to inform, not mislead. I have been doing as much research on things that my school does not offer, so that if ever brought up...I would know exactly what I was talking about.

You were right about the extensive wait list for most of these RN and LPN programs. If a student sat in the LPN or RN program directly after the enrolled, they could get done in 1-2 years. But around the general area I work in, each program has at least a year waiting list. The pre-requisits you have to take beforehand can often be stretched out over longer periods of time. So its more of a matter of how long the student wants to wait. When going for the 18 month AAS degree here, a student does not have to wait at all and can begin working their clinical classes within 3 terms (out of 6) of being here. Another benefit for those who don't want to wait and want to start working.

I didn't mention much about the certification process of an MA student because I thought I had seen it mentioned in this forum. With completion of an associates program like ours, a student does sit for their certification exam to become a CMA. Also, after obtaining your certification, you have to keep it current and updated over the years as well. I agree that it isn't as traditional to go from CMA-BSN, but it is being done more often now. LPN is a whole other field in itself. Its a matter of where the student wants to work when completing their program. Do they want to be in a Long Term Healthcare unit, or do they want to strictly work for a doctor's office? CMA's tend to choose the lower paying positions for a few reasons. Working 1st shift is a big part of that. I spoke to a CMA just yesterday and she had told me that she also has her company matching her benefits, as well as getting more paid vacation days, and full healthcare. Those are some great perks. I know that some of that is also available in other fields. LPN is a great transition into RN and eventually BSN. I guess the biggest thing is determining where you want to see yourself working and how much of a salary you desire. If you can make $35,000-$40,000 working in Long Term Healthcare, and enjoy it...then why not go for it?

I wanted to comment on the reply you made to the Associates degree in Medical Assitant versus the Diploma or Certificate program issue. The reason I mentioned it as being higher in quality, is because in most cases...an AAS degree can transfer into other colleges, mostly if you are looking to obtain your BSN. I have a current student who only completed the Diploma or Cert courses at another school and cannot transfer any credits because they don't meet the criteria of most schools, even ours. The credit hours tend to be less with just a diploma or cert. Yes, you can get a job with just a Diploma or Cert...but most of the time you won't get full use out of those credits if you want to transfer to any four year college to continue on with nursing. Why waste all that money to only have those credits be useless?

And about Alvernia being prestigious...maybe that was a stretch. But considering the other area colleges, Alvernia is a diamond in the rough. You have other state schools around here that are good, but not great. But let's face it...If someone presents a Harvard degree to you and another person with a state school degree...who would you hire? I'm not saying that prviate equals better, by any means. It is down to curriculum and program quality. I am just saying that Alvernia is among some of the top schools in the area.

To be honest, the whole point of me posting anything was to just give the hopeful MA candidate something to consider. That's why I never posted the name of the school I work for because I didn't want it to be about the school itself...just the process in which some students can take if they have the chance. Visit a bunch of different sites. Don't just google "Medical Assitant schools", because you won't find anything but different institutions trying to spruce up their websites to look like they are above all the rest. Go beyond just "Medical Assistant". Visit the Department of Labor's site to see what job opporunities and salaries are out there. Go to the AAMA website and find out what that all entails. Don't just look at the "how can I get a job" aspect of life. Because there are TONS of quick fixes out there that can get you a job, that doesn't pay well, and doesn't allow you to advance within or after you get there. See where your school can take you once you complete their program.

And lastly, take pride in WHATEVER you are doing. Whether you are an LPN, RN, CMA, CNA...it doesn't matter. Don't harp on what others are doing, because it makes you look unprofessional. Don't wear your profession on your sleeve, because its cocky and no one likes being belittled, even if you "are a nurse". I've seen a lot of that on this forum and I'm not the only one who thinks that they have lost focus on what really matters....patient healthcare. If you like what you do, stick with it. If you have not yet reached a choice in which direction you want to go in...find out what each of those fields entail. If it seems like something you want to do, then go for it. Don't always look at salary, because we all know that if you hate your job, no amount of money can make it any better. Find something you love to do and just do it. That's why there are options out there. If it seems too good to be true, it probably is. Just be careful where you go. You might have the chance to get a degree from that school, but sometimes you find yourself with just a piece of paper in your hand and nothing else. Check accreditaions, certifications, licensing, transferablity, articulations. Don't just base it off of cost and length, that's where you'll get nailed.

Thank you to EricEnfermero for shedding a little extra light on the subject. Your information is helpful and I appreciate you doing some other research. I am the first to admit that I don't like talking about things I don't know, so I am only stating the facts that I have collected. If it seems one sided, its because I have more information working with the MA field from an educational point of view. Hopefully some of this helps any of you looking to get into the medical field. Best of luck.

smk1, LPN · Mar 28, 2008

CMA-BSN? sure it would work...IF you take the required prerequisite coursework to apply for a bachelor's program in nursing along the way. This is true of ANY program.

dental assistant-BSN? sure, see above.

automechanic-BSN? why not, see above

culinary chef-BSN of course, see above

LPN-BSN? sure, see above.

The key here is to take the required coursework to take for the nursing program and obtain competitive grades. A CMA with an associates degree is no closer to obtaining a registered nursing degree than an LPN with an associates degree, and in fact the LPN is usually closer because many programs allow LPN's to enter the RN clinical program in the second year, because they are already nurses and by virtue of their education, they have been deemed competent at the basics. CMA's do not have this option because they lack the proper education and foundation in the basics of nursing care. Deciding which route to take is a personal choice, but if RN is the desired eventual outcome, LPN makes far more sense.

oliviakate · Apr 1, 2008

I am a CMA (and have been for 14 years) and recently completed the LPN program. I can now work in a Dr. Office, school, Nursing home, Hospital, and the list goes on and on. With the CMA you are very limited. It also takes about the same amount of time in school, I wish I had gotten my LPN first. Don't start with the CMA you will wished you had gone to nursing school.

p.s. the pay is about $6.00 :clown: (on average) higher for LPN's

meandrog02 · May 6, 2008

what i hate the most is that cma's call themselves nurses. i mean if they call someone up they say "hello, this is so and so ,the nurse from doctor so and so's office" it makes my skin crawl. i don't know why it gets to me so bad it just does. i was a cna for a year and i never called myself a nurse,until i was one. cma does not stand for nurse... and i know what will happen if they end up in the urgent care,we will end up doing all the nurse duties and they will do the easy work and our company wants to pay them almost the same as we are getting paid. the problem here though is that the management have no medical education and have no idea about the differences between cma and lpn's. it makes me crazy.
i know this thread is old, but i came across it and just wanted to clarify something. i am a cma. i went to the community college today to check out there rn vs lpn programs.. i decided to go w/ rn..
first of all let me stress that a cma can just have a certificate, where as some have an associates degree (like i have..) i have the classes that are involved with cma and lpn .. i got lpn class list from community college today... to be a lpn one will take the following classes:
practical nursing 1, 2, 3
itnro to a&p
pharmacology
nutrition
expository writing
life span development
this is a total of 47 credits...
now.. here is my class list that i took to become a cma (( in order of completment)) :::
academic strategies for the health care professional
medical law and bioethics
med termanology
effective writing 1 and 2
a&p 1 and 2
software applications
pathopysiology
algebra
medical office management
pharmacology
medical coding and inusrance
psychology
interpersonal communication
clincial 1 and 2
externship
career development strat
this is a total of 92 credits
now dont get me wrong here.. we are all important to the medical field, but you are downing cma's it seems... now let me ask you, if you were to hire an lpn or cma and you saw the classes listed above, who would you hire ??? kudos

HeartsOpenWide, RN · May 6, 2008

I guess they did not make you take a spelling class... sorry I couldn't resist...if you are going to sell yourself; sale yourself, but don't shoot yourself in the foot in the process.

agldragonRN · May 6, 2008

what i hate the most is that cma's call themselves nurses. i mean if they call someone up they say "hello, this is so and so ,the nurse from doctor so and so's office" it makes my skin crawl. i don't know why it gets to me so bad it just does. i was a cna for a year and i never called myself a nurse,until i was one. cma does not stand for nurse... and i know what will happen if they end up in the urgent care,we will end up doing all the nurse duties and they will do the easy work and our company wants to pay them almost the same as we are getting paid. the problem here though is that the management have no medical education and have no idea about the differences between cma and lpn's. it makes me crazy.
i know this thread is old, but i came across it and just wanted to clarify something. i am a cma. i went to the community college today to check out there rn vs lpn programs.. i decided to go w/ rn..
first of all let me stress that a cma can just have a certificate, where as some have an associates degree (like i have..) i have the classes that are involved with cma and lpn .. i got lpn class list from community college today... to be a lpn one will take the following classes:
practical nursing 1, 2, 3
itnro to a&p
pharmacology
nutrition
expository writing
life span development
this is a total of 47 credits...
now.. here is my class list that i took to become a cma (( in order of completment)) :::
academic strategies for the health care professional
medical law and bioethics
med termanology
effective writing 1 and 2
a&p 1 and 2
software applications
pathopysiology
algebra
medical office management
pharmacology
medical coding and inusrance
psychology
interpersonal communication
clincial 1 and 2
externship
career development strat
this is a total of 92 credits
now dont get me wrong here.. we are all important to the medical field, but you are downing cma's it seems... now let me ask you, if you were to hire an lpn or cma and you saw the classes listed above, who would you hire ??? kudos
bottom line is you do not have a license and need to work under somebody. lpn has their own license. you can even have a bachelor's in liberal arts and has a cma certificate and it will be the same: you have no license.
i am not saying being an lpn is better but you make it sounds like your cma degree is better because you had more credits.
and about your last question: if i were a doctor in the clinic, yes you are right, i will hire you because your pay would be cheaper than of an lpn.
good luck with rn school. i hope there is no long wait lists. it takes years sometimes just to get in.
cheers,
angel

agldragonRN · May 6, 2008

i guess they did not make you take a spelling class... sorry i couldn't resist...if you are going to sell yourself; sale yourself, but don't shoot yourself in the foot in the process.

:lol2: :lol2:

i had a spelling section on my lpn entrance test. :clown: :clown:

cheers,

angel

OgopogoLPN, LPN, RN · May 6, 2008

what i hate the most is that cma's call themselves nurses. i mean if they call someone up they say "hello, this is so and so ,the nurse from doctor so and so's office" it makes my skin crawl. i don't know why it gets to me so bad it just does. i was a cna for a year and i never called myself a nurse,until i was one. cma does not stand for nurse... and i know what will happen if they end up in the urgent care,we will end up doing all the nurse duties and they will do the easy work and our company wants to pay them almost the same as we are getting paid. the problem here though is that the management have no medical education and have no idea about the differences between cma and lpn's. it makes me crazy.
i know this thread is old, but i came across it and just wanted to clarify something. i am a cma. i went to the community college today to check out there rn vs lpn programs.. i decided to go w/ rn..
first of all let me stress that a cma can just have a certificate, where as some have an associates degree (like i have..) i have the classes that are involved with cma and lpn .. i got lpn class list from community college today... to be a lpn one will take the following classes:
practical nursing 1, 2, 3
itnro to a&p
pharmacology
nutrition
expository writing
life span development
this is a total of 47 credits...
now.. here is my class list that i took to become a cma (( in order of completment)) :::
academic strategies for the health care professional
medical law and bioethics
med termanology
effective writing 1 and 2
a&p 1 and 2
software applications
pathopysiology
algebra
medical office management
pharmacology
medical coding and inusrance
psychology
interpersonal communication
clincial 1 and 2
externship
career development strat
this is a total of 92 credits
now dont get me wrong here.. we are all important to the medical field, but you are downing cma's it seems... now let me ask you, if you were to hire an lpn or cma and you saw the classes listed above, who would you hire ??? kudos
i have no knowledge of the particular courses that it takes to become a cma, however i am currently an lpn student. and i can tell you that my course has a lot more course content than the one you listed above.
i think that part of the problem with cma education is that it isn't regulated. some cma's have an associates degree, while others took a 3-6 month course and have the same designation. or that anyone can be hired as an ma and trained by the doctor and other office staff, with no formal education. i believe there are two regulatory bodies in the usa (i'm in canada, but from what i've read here). however, it also seems apparent that becoming certified is entirely voluntary and uncertified ma's seem to be able to find jobs as well.
the difference with lpn education (at least in my province of bc) is that it is regulated. not just any school can say open up an lpn course. the course content, supplies, books, lab etc, has to be approved and certified by the college of lpn's of bc. all lpn students accross canada write the same national exam. the whole education and licensing process is highly regulated.
oh, and no where on this thread did i see anyone downing cma's.

meandrog02 · May 6, 2008

bottom line is you do not have a license and need to work under somebody. lpn has their own license. you can even have a bachelor's in liberal arts and has a cma certificate and it will be the same: you have no license.
i am not saying being an lpn is better but you make it sounds like your cma degree is better because you had more credits.
and about your last question: if i were a doctor in the clinic, yes you are right, i will hire you because your pay would be cheaper than of an lpn.
good luck with rn school. i hope there is no long wait lists. it takes years sometimes just to get in.
cheers,
angel
cma's degrees are not better, i did not mean to give u that feeling. but the cma program has more courses. however, i would like to add that there are some lpn's at my office that make more than me but i make more than a few of the lpn's there.