LPN versus CMA

[PeepnBiscuitsRN]

I was thinking at first of going for my Medical Assistant degree, since I want to work in a clinic so badly. I heard so much about how LPN's are getting phased out and only CMA's are getting jobs at clinics, and CMA's are higher up than LPN's. This of course coming from recruters from CMA programs. It would seem that the only difference between CMA's and LPN's are the fact that Med Asst's. get training in lab and x-ray. Well, I already am a certified Phlebotomist, and so I have that going. Any of you guys and gals work alongside Med Assts? Anyone work in clinics? :balloons:

[nursingis4me]

SMK1-

I read your last three posts; it looks like you did get the gist of what I was saying--that is while it is both unlawful and incorrect for anyone to refer to themselves with a title they have not earned (such as a medical assistant calling her/himself a "NURSE" when they aren't), it can be difficult (it's like fighting an uphill battle) to change the way doctors randomly use the title "NURSE".The problem is that they'll say "It's minor--you and the patients know what I mean!!" But they don't understand that it's not minor, if MAs are addressed incorrectly by the docs, it'll only cause confusion when the patient comes or calls in to the office requesting assistance "from the nurse working with Dr. Doe". You are correct to say that docs would be upset if NPs or PAs were referred to as "Dr"- I've personally witnessed this! A PA in my practice is always called "Dr. C------", it burns the physicians up to the point that a staff meeting was held on the proper usage of titles; the docs were really upset when they realized that the staff was addressing "Dr. C-----" correctly, as he held a PhD, and thereby did indeed earn the title of "Dr." (How they missed that, I'll never understand--for the fact that he has a PhD seems to be printed on everything posted in the office touting the fact that there's a PA on staff.)

[smk1, LPN]

SMK1-

I read your last three posts; it looks like you did get the gist of what I was saying--that is while it is both unlawful and incorrect for anyone to refer to themselves with a title they have not earned (such as a medical assistant calling her/himself a "NURSE" when they aren't), it can be difficult (it's like fighting an uphill battle) to change the way doctors randomly use the title "NURSE".The problem is that they'll say "It's minor--you and the patients know what I mean!!" But they don't understand that it's not minor, if MAs are addressed incorrectly by the docs, it'll only cause confusion when the patient comes or calls in to the office requesting assistance "from the nurse working with Dr. Doe". You are correct to say that docs would be upset if NPs or PAs were referred to as "Dr"- I've personally witnessed this! A PA in my practice is always called "Dr. C------", it burns the physicians up to the point that a staff meeting was held on the proper usage of titles; the docs were really upset when they realized that the staff was addressing "Dr. C-----" correctly, as he held a PhD, and thereby did indeed earn the title of "Dr." (How they missed that, I'll never understand--for the fact that he has a PhD seems to be printed on everything posted in the office touting the fact that there's a PA on staff.)

I realize that it is hard to change the doctor's terminology, but the very fact that a PA being called Doctor burned up the physicians at your place of work enough to hold a meeting, just illustrates my point. They have no problem correcting patients when the issue is one that hits closer to home. I still say that anyone who survived medical school has a good enough memory to call their coworkers and staff by the titles that they earned.

[S.N. Visit, BSN, RN]

Lets just all remember that it is illegal to call your-self a "nurse", if you have not been issued a nursing license.

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

Lets just all remember that it is illegal to call your-self a "nurse", if you have not issued a nursing license.

After 10 pages aren't we ready to say "'nuff said"?

It doesn't matter who can pass NCLEX with their eyes closed and the knowledge base they have (considerable though it might be), the role they have in the MD's offices, and how respected they are by patients, etc., etc. etc., blah blah blah.

Bottom line, if you didn't pass NCLEX, you're not a nurse. 'Nuff said.

[nursingis4me]

Hey HEALTHCARE PROFESSIONALS!!!!

CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG?!?!

I mean, patient care must COME 1ST!

Just realize that in a perfect world we'd all use correct titles and names when addressing someone, but THE WORLD IS NOT PERFECT----if it was, our sons/daughters/husbands/wives/other relatives/friends wouldn't be fighting overseas!!

By the way, I think that Tweety is correct in saying that after 10 pages 'nuff's been said on the subject.

[BuddahNature]

Well, I just found this thread today,and have read the majority of it.

Here is my opinion.Everyone knows regardless of their title what they can or cannot do in the scope of their practice.Everyone knows also why a CMA,or CNA, cannot call themselves a nurse,and a LPN cannot call themselves an RN.

However,I do not believe the thread has really been about any of this. I think the essence of the thread is that some people who are in the healthcare field,who may not meet the legal definition of a nurse only want recognition for what they know,in spite of what level they are at. Excelsior College gives recognition and credit,for skills gained,allowing one to get an RN minus traditional RN school. Going to school and pasing the NCLEX gives you legally the tittle of nurse, however,if you are brand spanking new nurse to the field,or for whatever reason not ju up to snuff clinically, well,I am here to tell you,there are lots others out there minus a nursing school education and training,who in spite of not being the legal nurse,have honed their clinical skills,to the max,way beyond expectation,for their role.That same group can function alongside a skilled nurse,and perform just as well and better. Note, I am talking clinical skills,which is one of the most important components of delivering outstanding healthcare to those we are assigned to. I just feel there are those among us who are excelling in their role in that area,despite the lack of nursing school,and they want only some recognition,and approval for that acheivement.

I do think we just need to reach out and embrace those who are doing more than a mighty fine job,and show more appreciation from time to time. That may be a trustworthy CNA who recognizes changes in a patients status as well as you do,and will always report to you any abnormalties,or the LPN,who has outstanding clinical skills, and functions clinically as well as an RN,and needs minimal RN supervision. That also goes to the CMA,who functions as well,as the LPN.

When the going gets tough,titles seems to get blurred,and I know many an RN who appreciated the fact their team members were highly skilled and competent.No RN is going to get bent out of shape,because some MD,patient or family member is overheard calling a staff member nurse,who is not one,providing she is secure in his/her role,knowing no one has taken anything away from them,educationally or otherwise.

What I feel is most important is that when taking care of patients, everyone stays within the scope of their practice,legally. When a particular situation arises that only a RN,or LPN can handle,then one would be deceptive not to clarify their status,and state they will send a nurse in. Furthermore,staff in most places have to wear ID of some sort which clearly states one title. I think there is more a perception of some non nurses trying to be deceptive,where it does not exist. Let's just reach out and embrace each other as each being needed,and valuable members of the healthcare team. I doubt if any of us would hold jobs and respected positions if we were not an asset to our various places of employment.

[nursingis4me]

Well, I just found this thread today,and have read the majority of it.

Here is my opinion.Everyone knows regardless of their title what they can or cannot do in the scope of their practice.Everyone knows also why a CMA,or CNA, cannot call themselves a nurse,and a LPN cannot call themselves an RN.

However,I do not believe the thread has really been about any of this. I think the essence of the thread is that some people who are in the healthcare field,who may not meet the legal definition of a nurse only want recognition for what they know,in spite of what level they are at. Excelsior College gives recognition and credit,for skills gained,allowing one to get an RN minus traditional RN school. Going to school and pasing the NCLEX gives you legally the tittle of nurse, however,if you are brand spanking new nurse to the field,or for whatever reason not ju up to snuff clinically, well,I am here to tell you,there are lots others out there minus a nursing school education and training,who in spite of not being the legal nurse,have honed their clinical skills,to the max,way beyond expectation,for their role.That same group can function alongside a skilled nurse,and perform just as well and better. Note, I am talking clinical skills,which is one of the most important components of delivering outstanding healthcare to those we are assigned to. I just feel there are those among us who are excelling in their role in that area,despite the lack of nursing school,and they want only some recognition,and approval for that acheivement.

I do think we just need to reach out and embrace those who are doing more than a mighty fine job,and show more appreciation from time to time. That may be a trustworthy CNA who recognizes changes in a patients status as well as you do,and will always report to you any abnormalties,or the LPN,who has outstanding clinical skills, and functions clinically as well as an RN,and needs minimal RN supervision. That also goes to the CMA,who functions as well,as the LPN.

When the going gets tough,titles seems to get blurred,and I know many an RN who appreciated the fact their team members were highly skilled and competent.No RN is going to get bent out of shape,because some MD,patient or family member is overheard calling a staff member nurse,who is not one,providing she is secure in his/her role,knowing no one has taken anything away from them,educationally or otherwise.

What I feel is most important is that when taking care of patients, everyone stays within the scope of their practice,legally. When a particular situation arises that only a RN,or LPN can handle,then one would be deceptive not to clarify their status,and state they will send a nurse in. Furthermore,staff in most places have to wear ID of some sort which clearly states one title. I think there is more a perception of some non nurses trying to be deceptive,where it does not exist. Let's just reach out and embrace each other as each being needed,and valuable members of the healthcare team. I doubt if any of us would hold jobs and respected positions if we were not an asset to our various places of employment.

HEAR, HEAR!!!!! WELL SAID!!!!!!! AT LEAST SOMEONE GETS THE MEANING OF THE PHRASE "CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG?!".

[pagandeva2000, LPN]

motivatedlpntorn, you worded this so well. we each want recognition for our roles, especially when we excell in them! i have seen some medical assistants word things better than i could have, and was impressed by them. they do need to be acknowledged in that aspect of work. also, that same ma may have to orient the new lpn/rn. recently, an rn hired as a head nurse was oriented by me, an lpn. i was actually proud that this woman sought me out more than the others because she noted that i was articulate. i also knew that she would be my boss in a few weeks. not a bad thing at all to orient a charge person.

[jcsinging]

LPNs being phased out is like an urban legend. Someone should put it on snopes.com as being untrue. That myth has been thrown about forever!

....and also - LPNs ARE nurses!!

You research different programs and make a decision based on which program fits your needs. Not based on LPNs being "phased out".:angryfire

[jelorde37]

wow, just reading this post again makes me kinda sick to my stomach. i take a lot of pride in being a nurse and i wouldnt want others to use my title if they have not earned it, but i think we must put our animosity aside and focus on patient care. because that is really all that matters,right? i think that if each profession focuses on their strengths we can have better outcomes for our patients.

just my 2 cents.

[admissionsRep]

I stumbled upon this forum through a Google search on the differences between LPN and CMA (Certified Medical Assistants) according to the public's opinion. As an actual Admissions Representative (not "recruiter") for an accredited technical school in Pennsylvania, I wanted to advise people to seriously do some extensive research. First of all, you will run across a few "recruiters" who are looking to wheel and deal you into going to their school. Let the record be straight, I do not do admissions enrollments this way. I don't work for the Army, so I hate the word "recruiter". What had lead me to researching this topic was due to an actual case I am dealing with at the moment.

The school I work for offers the Medical Assitant Sciences program, which when completed, will certify you as a Medical Assistant. There are various levels of MA's. If you notice in your searches, some MA programs only offer Diplomas or Certificates. Schools such as the one I work for, offers you an Associates Degree in Specialized Business, which is always much higher than a diploma or certificate. Keep in mind, some schools only do in-house clinical work too. Whereas others offer an externship to get you hands-on training. That is also key. And it is true, the MA field is one of the fastest growing fields through 2014. You can find that info in the Department of Labor website, as someone else pointed out.

Here is where the line gets blurred. The reason I had looked into this topic at all was because I have a potential student who is looking into both professions right now, but can't decide if she wants to take the "quick fix" route or the longer route. Basically, you can earn your LPN licensing in about a year, and RN in a little over 2. But...depending on where you are....you also have the issue of there being a long waiting list to even get into the program, as well as taking classes that do not pertain to your field just for "pre-requisits". I am talking a YEAR or more on the wait list. You have to realize, these are two totally different fields people. Do you want to do Long Term Care? Or Home Health Care with the elderly? Or are you looking to getting yourself in a doctor's office? We all want to make as much money as we can, but when it comes down to it...there is more to be looked at in the longrun.

Some important things to keep in mind when searching:

1. Is the school you are going to accredited? Make sure you do an extensive search on this. If you are looking for MA, check out the AAMA certification, as well as CAAHEP. If the school is not accredited by any one of those, do NOT go there.

2. Does the program seem legit? Often a school will try to sell you on the length and price of a school. Think of your job title. You are going to be taking care of people and literally having their lives in your hands. If a school says they can get you through in a year for only $10,000...does that seem right to you? (I am going by what I have heard and researched). We all want instant gratification, but sometimes you have to put in a little extra to get the most out of a program.

3. If you have doubts, ask! Tell your admissions rep that you want an in-depth discussion with a Program coordinator. Often times you will have people at the school who teach and run the program...talk to them! Sometimes the admissions rep doesn't know everything! (I can say that with full confidence).

And lastly, what do you want your ultimate goal to be? If you've heard of a CMA or LPN or RN, you've heard of obtaining your BSN then. Basically, that is the top of the line in Nursing today. To me personally, CMA and LPN are right on the same level. Yes, one might make more than the other. Yes, the LPN program is shorter in most cases. But both do about the same type of work, usually in different settings. Both are not quite RN's, and both have potential to move forward. As an LPN, most schools you attend do NOT transfer their credits to other schools (such as 4 year colleges that offer BSN). You'll most likely start working at a hospital who will put you through their RN program. You HAVE to go on for you RN and then try to go into an RN to BSN program. But, you don't have to have your LPN or RN in order to complete your BSN. I know for a fact that Medical Assistants can go from being just a Medical Assistant, to obtaining their BSN...as long as the school they went to is accredited and transfers their credits. There is a prestigious private institution here in PA called Alvernia College that has a BSN program and accepts our MA students in at JUNIOR STATUS! Which means that you have the potential to sit for you NCLEX-RN in the process, and then obtain your BSN as well. All within a little less than 3 years after getting your MA certification.

So folks, I know this was a lot of information to take in. But after reading some posts, I had to sign up for this and give you professional point of view. There are possibilities in both LPN and CMA, but one...is definitely NOT better than the other. If you define "better" as being "higher paid", then you really aren't concerned about being in the medical field to begin with. You will get what you pay for in either program, and you will be successful either way. It just depends on with path YOU see yourself going down...and knowing that its more of a matter of job description than it is anything else.

Best of luck. Let me know if you have any questions, I'd love to answer them and help you in making your choice.

[jelorde37]

after doing months and months of research,the cal state university-san bernardino lvn-bsn program gives credit to current lvns for their lvn education. ofcourse prerequisite courses are needed and the lvn-bsn program can be completed in a little over 2 years. the only catch is that one must have a 3.0 cumulative gpa in their lvn studies, and a 2.5 gpa in their general ed and science prereqs. also, loma linda university offers lvn-bsn option which is roughly 2 years after prereqs but costs a lot more. the lvn-rn program at the local community college im attending is 1 summer and 2 semesters long and if i remember correctly, CMAs that choose to persue their rn are put into nursing 2, while lvn/lpts are put into nursing 3. there are also other options such as the lvn-bsn online program through isu/excelsior and there are various universities that offer a lvn-bsn program and many of them just require the applicant to have his/her license.

anyways, i dont know how it is in other states, but this is in california.