License Revoked for Ethical Reason

allnurses Guide · Jul 29, 2019

You are going to have to find a way to show you have better judgment now than you did then. Your letter, though, doesn't sound like that is the case.

Jory, MSN, APRN, CNM · Jul 29, 2019

You have to keep in mind..there are lines that just can't be crossed.

They made a movie of a famous case where a physician (true story) took care of a wealthy cancer patient. The man was virtually abandoned by his adult children. This physician showed him compassion in his final days. He had a horrible event where he was having repeated spasms of pain that were extreme and unbearable. They were coming every few minutes. She had "managed his pain" not long after, he died. He was well-known to be terminal and in his final days.

To her shock....she was left the bulk of his estate....he changed his will not long before he died. She had no idea because the patient never told her. His attorney did.

The state not only tried to charge her with killing the patient, but tried to take her license because they said she manipulated him.

She was completely exonerated.....but it just goes to show....even when the lines are legitimate...professional boards may see it differently.

allnurses Guide · Jul 30, 2019

I had a terminal patient absolutely insistent that he wanted to leave me his coin collection. I refused it and encouraged him to leave it to his grandchildren. He was adamant. I was sad when he died, but grateful that he did not have opportunity to change his will before he passed away. It made me uncomfortable to say the least. I think you need to be asking yourself why this didn't make YOU uncomfortable. It really should have.

JadedCPN, BSN, RN · Jul 30, 2019

6 hours ago, not.done.yet said:
I think you need to be asking yourself why this didn't make YOU uncomfortable. It really should have.

THIS. Very well worded.

kbrn2002, ADN, RN · Jul 30, 2019

I won't comment on the particulars of your situation as that's a done deal at this point. The first step for you to be reinstated should pretty obviously be reaching out to your BON and asking them how best to proceed with the application. Every state has their own BON with their own requirements for licensing and their own set of rules and regulations. I am assuming your are looking at Texas, hopefully somebody more familiar with that state than I am can give you more advice on how to best start the process.

Forest2 · Aug 1, 2019

On 7/29/2019 at 6:26 PM, Jory said:
You have to keep in mind..there are lines that just can't be crossed.
They made a movie of a famous case where a physician (true story) took care of a wealthy cancer patient. The man was virtually abandoned by his adult children. This physician showed him compassion in his final days. He had a horrible event where he was having repeated spasms of pain that were extreme and unbearable. They were coming every few minutes. She had "managed his pain" not long after, he died. He was well-known to be terminal and in his final days.
To her shock....she was left the bulk of his estate....he changed his will not long before he died. She had no idea because the patient never told her. His attorney did.
The state not only tried to charge her with killing the patient, but tried to take her license because they said she manipulated him.
She was completely exonerated.....but it just goes to show....even when the lines are legitimate...professional boards may see it differently.

I worked in home care for several years. Patients become very attached to their nurses and aides, some of those patients we saw for years, to the point where they ask you to stay and eat, give you vegetables out of the garden or pick you some flowers. It is a line that must be minded very carefully, we actually had a problem where an aide accepted a framed picture and when the patients family found out about it threw a fit and wanted it back. Families can cause a lot of problems. I think two adults should be able to give each other what they want but on the other hand you must take care that your position doesn't unduly influence the matter. The director would not mind too much if you received something of very little value, like a few tomatoes if the patient pushed them on you. Minor tokens of appreciation, like a basket of fruit delivered to the office to share with everyone was acceptable. The teeter totter of customer satisfaction and not taking advantage is tricky to navigate.

Forest2 · Aug 1, 2019

On 7/30/2019 at 6:59 AM, not.done.yet said:
I had a terminal patient absolutely insistent that he wanted to leave me his coin collection. I refused it and encouraged him to leave it to his grandchildren. He was adamant. I was sad when he died, but grateful that he did not have opportunity to change his will before he passed away. It made me uncomfortable to say the least. I think you need to be asking yourself why this didn't make YOU uncomfortable. It really should have.

Yes, I would have accepted gifts if they were not my patient. Then on the other hand if they were not my patient then I may never have met them. It's best when they are under your care and they want to give something of value just say no. I don't need to be given something by a patient to feel their gratitude but it is nice when they want to. I feel good about it either way, a hug and a sincere thank you gets me through the day. I wouldn't feel right about accepting expensive gifts or doing something that may have the appearance of taking advantage. Maybe she thought she was helping them, I don't know, but it is harder still when you know the person outside of your job and they are practically part of your family. This is more prominent in small communities where families are more closely related..

Forest2 · Aug 1, 2019

Contact the BON where you had your license and see what you need to do to get it reinstated. I assume that they don't just hold it for 5 years and give it back without some kind of documentation. What did they tell you at the time?

Kooky Korky, BSN, RN · Aug 9, 2019

On 8/1/2019 at 9:20 AM, Forest2 said:
I worked in home care for several years. Patients become very attached to their nurses and aides, some of those patients we saw for years, to the point where they ask you to stay and eat, give you vegetables out of the garden or pick you some flowers. It is a line that must be minded very carefully, we actually had a problem where an aide accepted a framed picture and when the patients family found out about it threw a fit and wanted it back. Families can cause a lot of problems. I think two adults should be able to give each other what they want but on the other hand you must take care that your position doesn't unduly influence the matter. The director would not mind too much if you received something of very little value, like a few tomatoes if the patient pushed them on you. Minor tokens of appreciation, like a basket of fruit delivered to the office to share with everyone was acceptable. The teeter totter of customer satisfaction and not taking advantage is tricky to navigate.

I think sometimes it is ok to accept a SMALL gift, like vegetables from the garden, a meal at the pt's home, or flowers. I don't know, though. Maybe it is best to just about never do that, or do it only with permission from the patient's next of kin.

Never take money or possessions, like the picture.

I had a terminally ill pt whose dog survived him. Several of the pt's nurses offered the pt's sister a home for the dog. She picked one nurse. I don't know if money changed hands or what.

It's a tricky thing. I think you should ALWAYS have permission from both the next of kin and your boss. And don't accept too many small gifts, like flowers and vegetables. Of course, how many is too many might be open to question.

There was an article a while ago, I don't remember where. In the article, the wife of a home care patient expressed her gratitude for "Joe", the husband's home care nurse. Joe was not only giving meds and doing bathing and the like, he was fixing the patient's car, taking him wherever he & the wife needed to go, repairing windows, plumbing, etc. around the house, gardening, turning mattresses for the wife, and many other things.

I guess you can build only so many puzzles or model planes, talk only so much for so long in a home care setting with a very stable patient. But it seemed excessive and inappropriate for the nurse to be doing all of that. It probably made the time go quicker for all concerned and the nurse was a huge help to the patient and wife, probably to their adult kids, too, who likely were busy with jobs and their own kids. Is that wrong?

I guess those who have Secret Service or other publicly-funded protectors get help carrying packages while shopping and so on. Is it right for taxpayers to pay for all of that? Ah, the deep questions of Life.

Nurselexii · Mar 11, 2020

On 7/29/2019 at 6:26 PM, Jory said:
You have to keep in mind..there are lines that just can't be crossed.
They made a movie of a famous case where a physician (true story) took care of a wealthy cancer patient. The man was virtually abandoned by his adult children. This physician showed him compassion in his final days. He had a horrible event where he was having repeated spasms of pain that were extreme and unbearable. They were coming every few minutes. She had "managed his pain" not long after, he died. He was well-known to be terminal and in his final days.
To her shock....she was left the bulk of his estate....he changed his will not long before he died. She had no idea because the patient never told her. His attorney did.
The state not only tried to charge her with killing the patient, but tried to take her license because they said she manipulated him.
She was completely exonerated.....but it just goes to show....even when the lines are legitimate...professional boards may see it differently.

seems like she was acting in kindness not malice

On 7/29/2019 at 10:54 AM, Nurse SMS said:
You are going to have to find a way to show you have better judgment now than you did then. Your letter, though, doesn't sound like that is the case.

?

License Revoked for Ethical Reason

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