Leaving Your Job Due to Mandate

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For those of you who have recognized your employer can terminate you for not taking the COVID vaccine and have decided on or are considering employment elsewhere please share your experiences here. How do you feel about having to make that choice? 

The purpose of this thread is not to condemn those making this decision or debate whether they should vaccinate or not. 

Specializes in Critical Care.
52 minutes ago, 10GaugeNeedles said:

The original premise was safety vs freedom. I'm not arguing there shouldn't be reasonable restrictions. I'm arguing freedom is worth the risk. I don't agree with seatbelt laws. I agree with seat belt USE. If someone doesn't wear a seat belt, I don't believe the state should punish then for it. I think those people are dumb since it's not inherent restrictive and can save a life. But the legal imposition does nothing but harm people. It just gives police an excuse to fine or pull people over. That's my argument. Freedom balanced with safety. Not freedom banned because of safety. Life is risky and always will be.

I don't know that seat belt laws are the most accurate example, whether or not people should have the freedom to turn on their headlights at night would be a better example.

Is it a step towards totalitarianism to require people to turn on their headlights when driving at night?

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Specializes in Critical Care.
2 hours ago, 10GaugeNeedles said:

Those vaccines are not mrna. I understand (and I may be wrong here but this is my big concern) the mrna is introduced into the cell, presents to dna, dna leads to spike protein production that is presented on the cell bilayer. Wbc interact with the spike protein. Antibody is produced to attack said spike protein and consequently, the cell itself. My concern is, if the protein is on the cell, the immune system will attack the cell. If that happens broadly, leads to an autoimmune response. If it crosses the blood brain barrier, autoimmune response to the brain (which would explain the encephalitis I've heard about). How do we know this spike protein production is time limited? How do we know it doesn't get systemically distributed to the uterus, kidney's, lungs, lymph system, liver? The sensory loss people widely report tells me it is crossing the blood brain barrier. And if the spike protein production persists long term, that spells long term injury to me. There's already strong discussion of platelet activation. I've seen pretty good discussion about systemic distribution. There's a lot about the basic function of the mrna tech that concerns me. Traditional vaccines don't concern me since it's self limiting by nature (just exposure. Not cellular production). I'm not a research scientist, I'm just a nurse. I know I don't know a lot of things. But what I think I know so far makes me hesitant. If there was a traditional vaccine I'd take it today. I'm hoping for Novavax'. 

All vaccines utilize mRNA to create antibodies, and overall mRNA triggers cell production a few billion times per day in all of us.

The only difference is that with traditional vaccines the culprit virus is introduced to your cells which then produce mRNA with the viral RNA sequence encoded to produce additional cells to produce additional antibodies, mRNA vaccines just skip past those uneeded steps.

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Specializes in Acute Dialysis.
Just now, MunoRN said:

I don't know that seat belt laws are the most accurate example, whether or not people should have the freedom to turn on their headlights at night would be a better example.

Is it a step towards totalitarianism to require people to turn on their headlights when driving at night?

All laws have the potential to lead to totalitarianism. It depends on how they are used. We consent to those laws as the body politic as long as they remain reasonable. We must be vigilant and pro active in all cases. Vaccine mandates aren't totalitarian per se. We must accept some reasonable limits on our freedom to function in society. But we also must have the ability to restrain government over reach. If they pass a law we don't consent to, we can't remain submissive to it. A submissive population is exactly how totalitarian government is born and we can't allow that to happen here. 

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7 minutes ago, 10GaugeNeedles said:

All laws have the potential to lead to totalitarianism. It depends on how they are used. We consent to those laws as the body politic as long as they remain reasonable. We must be vigilant and pro active in all cases. Vaccine mandates aren't totalitarian per se. We must accept some reasonable limits on our freedom to function in society. But we also must have the ability to restrain government over reach. If they pass a law we don't consent to, we can't remain submissive to it. A submissive population is exactly how totalitarian government is born and we can't allow that to happen here. 

That is how this country was formed.  Boston tea party and all that.

But, in this case we are talking about requiring healthcare workers to take a vaccine to protect patients.  Nothing new here, every single nurse in this country has had to have some kind of vaccine to be a nurse.

Nobody has to be a nurse.  But in order to be a nurse, there have always been requirements.  Personally, I find the requirement to pass NCLEX to be completely unreasonable.  It's a horrible test.  Oddly, my state nursing board did not ask my opinion on this.  

It's a job requirement.  As luck would have it, there is a labor shortage. 

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Specializes in Acute Mental Health.

Pro-disease is ridiculous.  There have always been antivaxers and never have I heard they are pro-disease. Many people that aren't vaxed simply believe the survival rate is so high that it makes no sense to them to put something they don't trust into their bodies. It doesn't help that it is so highly politicized.   I do not want to lose my coworkers who are refusing the vaccine. Most are trying to go for religious opt out. Many of our units area already working short with more staff leaving. Now we will lose more. They are good solid nurses. I refuse to judge those that won't get the vaccine. Many people are rude with their  opinions and feel it's right to shame others. My momma taught me better.

Not too long ago we were heroes. Wearing the same nasty mask until it fell apart and had to trade it in for proof in order to get a new one. We went without hand sanitizer, hand soap, and even used donated cloth masks. We were hands on with pts before they were whisked away to isolation units. Now some of us sit on thrones and preach to other nurses because we are so knowledgable in our righteousness. I won't do it! I will cry if one of my nurse family loses their job. 

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Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
9 minutes ago, chevyv said:

Pro-disease is ridiculous.  There have always been antivaxers and never have I heard they are pro-disease. Many people that aren't vaxed simply believe the survival rate is so high that it makes no sense to them to put something they don't trust into their bodies. It doesn't help that it is so highly politicized.   I do not want to lose my coworkers who are refusing the vaccine. Most are trying to go for religious opt out. Many of our units area already working short with more staff leaving. Now we will lose more. They are good solid nurses. I refuse to judge those that won't get the vaccine. Many people are rude with their  opinions and feel it's right to shame others. My momma taught me better.

Not too long ago we were heroes. Wearing the same nasty mask until it fell apart and had to trade it in for proof in order to get a new one. We went without hand sanitizer, hand soap, and even used donated cloth masks. We were hands on with pts before they were whisked away to isolation units. Now some of us sit on thrones and preach to other nurses because we are so knowledgable in our righteousness. I won't do it! I will cry if one of my nurse family loses their job. 

You are comfortable with unvaccinated nurses working with the elderly and disabled who are living in LTC environments? 

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Specializes in A variety.
22 minutes ago, hherrn said:

That is how this country was formed.  Boston tea party and all that.

1.But, in this case we are talking about requiring healthcare workers to take a vaccine to protect patients.  Nothing new here, every single nurse in this country has had to have some kind of vaccine to be a nurse.

2. Nobody has to be a nurse.  But in order to be a nurse, there have always been requirements.  Personally, I find the requirement to pass NCLEX to be completely unreasonable.  It's a horrible test.  Oddly, my state nursing board did not ask my opinion on this.  

It's a job requirement.  As luck would have it, there is a labor shortage. 

1. Vaccines aren't all the same so we shouldn't expect everyone react the same to each one.  

2. I don't like that argument as it's being used regarding this discussion.  It suggests being a nurse means not having a sense of self, and one must always subjugate themselves to any demand placed upon them without question, hesitancy, or concern.  We already put our lives and health on the line in the service of others. It's not unreasonable to object and resist when we believe or are concerned something is wrong.  

I would like it to be less about force and more about information on this particular situation. 

 

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Specializes in Acute Mental Health.

We are all trained in using PPE and staying home when we're ill. They are so short staffed now. I can't imagine when they fire those still willing to serve. I do not work in LTC so I have no idea what guidelines they follow.  We have mandatory testing on a long term unit where I work. Employees are tested 2X/wk.

Again, I will not sit in judgement of my brothers and sisters and will shed tears when they have to face losing their jobs. We have so many staff out with covid right now who are all vaccinated. I have an upper respiratory thing going on.  I'm at home needing to use my sick time right now so I don't get anyone sick.  

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Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
9 minutes ago, chevyv said:

We are all trained in using PPE and staying home when we're ill. They are so short staffed now. I can't imagine when they fire those still willing to serve. I do not work in LTC so I have no idea what guidelines they follow.  We have mandatory testing on a long term unit where I work. Employees are tested 2X/wk.

Again, I will not sit in judgement of my brothers and sisters and will shed tears when they have to face losing their jobs. We have so many staff out with covid right now who are all vaccinated. I have an upper respiratory thing going on.  I'm at home needing to use my sick time right now so I don't get anyone sick.  

Why do you think nurses are willing to sacrifice their job in order to remain unvaccinated?

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Specializes in Acute Dialysis.
4 minutes ago, chevyv said:

We are all trained in using PPE and staying home when we're ill. They are so short staffed now. I can't imagine when they fire those still willing to serve. I do not work in LTC so I have no idea what guidelines they follow.  We have mandatory testing on a long term unit where I work. Employees are tested 2X/wk.

Again, I will not sit in judgement of my brothers and sisters and will shed tears when they have to face losing their jobs. We have so many staff out with covid right now who are all vaccinated. I have an upper respiratory thing going on.  I'm at home needing to use my sick time right now so I don't get anyone sick.  

I'm with you. I HAAAATE all the politics, self righteousness, and judgementalism happening. I wish we were all on the same team on this. I may be too hopeful but, Novavax is the way out of this fight imo. Could be wrong and can't wait to see some data about it, but at LEAST the whole mrna issue will be resolved. I know many people like myself who are concerned about mrna vax specifically because of how it works. 

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Specializes in Acute Mental Health.
4 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

Why do you think nurses are willing to sacrifice their job in order to remain unvaccinated?

I feel there is no one answer to your question. Some don't believe, some believe it is politically motivated and blown up for the fear factor, some fear the unknown, some are too overwhelmed to figure out truth from fiction. I've had 2 tell me they have undergone some health hurdles and can't handle putting one more thing in their body. Those 2 will probably work it out in their heart. The rest, well I wish I had a better answer but I don't know for sure.

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Specializes in Acute Dialysis.
44 minutes ago, hherrn said:

That is how this country was formed.  Boston tea party and all that.

But, in this case we are talking about requiring healthcare workers to take a vaccine to protect patients.  Nothing new here, every single nurse in this country has had to have some kind of vaccine to be a nurse.

Nobody has to be a nurse.  But in order to be a nurse, there have always been requirements.  Personally, I find the requirement to pass NCLEX to be completely unreasonable.  It's a horrible test.  Oddly, my state nursing board did not ask my opinion on this.  

It's a job requirement.  As luck would have it, there is a labor shortage. 

No. We aren't talking about just nurses here. We are talking about state wide mandates on whole populations (see new York). This isn't just affecting nurses. This is a new drug with unknown long term effects and new technology. We have every right to wait. I don't buy a brand new car model. I wait to find out what the serious problems are. NORMALLY, that's what the prolonged testing is for. You think it takes so long to get drug approval cause they enjoy dragging out the process? They do it because it can HURT PEOPLE long term. But we don't have the benefit of that testing. I just wish your side could AT LEAST empathize with our side on this. I don't need y'all to agree. I need y'all to comprehend. And yeah, we leave and hospitals get short staffed, diversion is called over and over, those left get over worked and burnt out, all because they want to force the mandate. Well I'm a travel nurse so I have options. I hurt for those nurses that are forced to leave their job against their will simply because of these stupid mandates. I hurt for the pts that are underserved. This situation sucks regardless of your opinion. I wish you could realize that. 

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