Leaving Your Job Due to Mandate

[jive turkey]

For those of you who have recognized your employer can terminate you for not taking the COVID vaccine and have decided on or are considering employment elsewhere please share your experiences here. How do you feel about having to make that choice? 

The purpose of this thread is not to condemn those making this decision or debate whether they should vaccinate or not. 

[GrumpyRN, NP]

16 minutes ago, veganista13 said:

Seriously? Just because people don’t blindly follow science doesn’t mean they are ignorant, conspiracy theorist dooms day preppers. Have an open mind. You don’t have to believe everything the government and the CDC tells you to. 

You do know I'm not American?

 

[subee, MSN, CRNA]

10 minutes ago, veganista13 said:

OMG are you seriously so foolish as to believe that number? Come on we all know that someone can die without it being due to COVID and have COVID.  Stop believing all numbers at face value.  Think about this- when I had COVID and lost my taste and smell, I had no other symptoms. So if I get in a car wreck and die and just do happen to have COVID did I die from COVID or the car accident?

Yep.  All the doctors and nurses conspired to force the pathologists to sign Covid on the COD line.  Yet not one person has come.forward to tell on the pathologists who did their bidding.  You obviously have no idea of how this worked back in the beginning when COD's were changed after the results of covid tests came back.  So many people use the same language that you do which just demonstrates hiw gullible you are to absurdist claims.  Brainwashed tripe. 

[10GaugeNeedles, BSN]

5 minutes ago, lMCRN said:

Do you believe that over 600,000 Americans have died from covid? And just for perspective 3300 Americans died in the Middle East in the last 20 years. Just a quick question for the anti-Vaxers

No I don't actually. I believe that over 600,000 Americans died WITH COVID. That's an important difference. There's too many reports of doctors being pressured to put covid on the death certificate to pretend it's not possible. I personally was treating a pt who had severe respiratory distress. No nebulizers were ordered. None of the normal respiratory stuff on the MAR. Bp was fine. I watched this guy mouth hyperventilate on a nasal cannula for an hour, RT staring through the glass and doing nothing. I asked her WOW!? Can we get a mask on him at least? "He just needs fluid taken off" they told me. His lungs where super tight and wheezing on auscultation. He had very little edema. I asked the nurse why no respiratory orders were in other than o2. Blank stare. This was a large hospital. They had intensivists. When they finally called a code everyone rushed in to intubate etc. As I was packing up my machine, they still weren't giving the guy any kind of nebulizer. Now that was very strange to me. My ICU experience tells me someone was being negligent or something more sketch. I believe he died a day or two later. Why was this guy treated different than every other respiratory pt I've ever seen? I've seen better management at small community hospitals. They were far more concerned with following covid protocol (did everyone have a papr? Were all the batteries charged? How many times did the neg pressure alarm go off? Blah blah blah). Their priorities were NOT on this guy's actual problem. WHY? That's my anecdote to add to the pile. 

[subee, MSN, CRNA]

13 minutes ago, 10GaugeNeedles said:

No I don't actually. I believe that over 600,000 Americans died WITH COVID. That's an important difference. There's too many reports of doctors being pressured to put covid on the death certificate to pretend it's not possible. I personally was treating a pt who had severe respiratory distress. No nebulizers were ordered. None of the normal respiratory stuff on the MAR. Bp was fine. I watched this guy mouth hyperventilate on a nasal cannula for an hour, RT staring through the glass and doing nothing. I asked her WOW!? Can we get a mask on him at least? "He just needs fluid taken off" they told me. His lungs where super tight and wheezing on auscultation. He had very little edema. I asked the nurse why no respiratory orders were in other than o2. Blank stare. This was a large hospital. They had intensivists. When they finally called a code everyone rushed in to intubate etc. As I was packing up my machine, they still weren't giving the guy any kind of nebulizer. Now that was very strange to me. My ICU experience tells me someone was being negligent or something more sketch. I believe he died a day or two later. Why was this guy treated different than every other respiratory pt I've ever seen? I've seen better management at small community hospitals. They were far more concerned with following covid protocol (did everyone have a papr? Were all the batteries charged? How many times did the neg pressure alarm go off? Blah blah blah). Their priorities were NOT on this guy's actual problem. WHY? That's my anecdote to add to the pile. 

Ooh.  Words like "reports of"  The staff you complain of was probably simply incompetent  and overwhelmed.  But you find it more entertaining to believe that all these incompetent people colluded to fool the public (except for you) that covid was a hoax in terms of numbers if people killed.  You do realize that a lot of people didn't get counted because they died at home after never seeing. doctor?  At the top of the death curve in NYC, things were sloppy trying to get a body to the refrigerator so that someone fron the ER could have a bed.  Lots of mistakes were made but  we learned quickly.  But a conspiracy theory appeals to the receptive mind.

[MunoRN, RN]

27 minutes ago, veganista13 said:

OMG are you seriously so foolish as to believe that number? Come on we all know that someone can die without it being due to COVID and have COVID.  Stop believing all numbers at face value.  Think about this- when I had COVID and lost my taste and smell, I had no other symptoms. So if I get in a car wreck and die and just do happen to have COVID did I die from COVID or the car accident?

The number of people who have died as a result of Covid and those who have died with, but not if Covid are tracked as separate data.  I'm not sure where people are getting that a physician would intentionally falsify a cause of death, putting them at risk for loss if license, fines, and even jail when there is no potential benefit for them.

I would agree that really all death is multifactorial, and deciding on just a single cause is challenging, but less so with Covid which has an extremely unique constellation of symptoms, imaging, laboratory, and physical findings.

 

[subee, MSN, CRNA]

1 minute ago, MunoRN said:

The number of people who have died as a result of Covid and those who have died with, but not if Covid are tracked as separate data.  I'm not sure where people are getting that a physician would intentionally falsify a cause of death, putting them at risk for loss if license, fines, and even jail when there is no potential benefit for them.

I would agree that really all death is multifactorial, and deciding on just a single cause is challenging, but less so with Covid which has an extremely unique constellation of symptoms, imaging, laboratory, and physical findings.

 

Right.   But these commentators are smarter and more virtuous than any pathologist.  Like they just wave the old Vitalometer over the body like a divining rod to decide whether they should check the Covid box or not.  Why bother with going to medical school and do a residency when they, a poster on an anonymous internet forum, know that the docs are a bunch of left wing crooks..  I've never been so grateful that my phone is dying.

[MunoRN, RN]

4 hours ago, 10GaugeNeedles said:

Yes people are. People hear about reports of hyper coagulation, bells palsy, etc and they are concerned that they might get that reaction. You don't care about that. But others do and when they express those concerns they are summarily dismissed by half the country as conspiracy nut cases. The experts treat natural immunity as if it's irrelevant when we know it is relevant. People bring this point up and they are dismissed. Everything is dismissed. "Just take the jab and shut up already!!" invites distrust and that is a huge reason people are resistant to change their minds. What about this don't you understand?

I don't know that people really don't care about things like the risk of thromboembolic events related to vaccination, it's that this is indeed a concern and that getting vaccinated is by far the most effective way to reduce your risk of a thromboembolic event given that they are fairly common with a Covid infection.

You're correct that natural immunity offers protection, at least for some period of time following an infection.  But what the overwhelmingly majority of evidence tells us is that it is still inferior to vaccination in terms of reducing transmission potential, severity of subsequent illness, and predictability of duration of protection.  The advantages to vaccine immunity vs natural immunity has become even more pronounced with the delta variant.

[jive turkey]

2 hours ago, Horseshoe said:

What do you mean I refuse to answer? I haven't been asked that question and haven't had any discussions with anyone on this thread about whether or not people who have recovered from Covid need to take the vaccine. This thread is about how unvaccinated nurses feel about having to leave their jobs if they refuse vaccination. I just call out misinformation when I see it, and that one was absolutely absurd.

@10GaugeNeedles

This poster participated in another thread that dealt with reasons people wouldn't vaccinate.  This poster was one of many that argued against the idea of previously infected people foregoing the vaccine.

I would defer to this poster to answer your question as I don't think its our business to ask their medical history or vaccination status directly.  But I can tell you most here have expressed the previously infected should vaccinate too.

[MunoRN, RN]

3 hours ago, 10GaugeNeedles said:

Well this study covered covid. You should read it. But corona virus is a very broad family which includes the common cold and there's a robust immunity to that as well. 

We develop a primarily b cell response to the common cold, which is short lived.  This is why of the couple hundred virus strains that have the potential to trigger a cold, the vast majority are caused by just 4 strains.  After you've had a cold caused by one of these you're only protected from another cold caused by that strain for a few months to at best a year.  This is true for all known coronavirus strains, including Covid.

[jive turkey]

7 minutes ago, MunoRN said:

You're correct that natural immunity offers protection, at least for some period of time following an infection.  But what the overwhelmingly majority of evidence tells us is that it is still inferior to vaccination in terms of reducing transmission potential, severity of subsequent illness, and predictability of duration of protection.  The advantages to vaccine immunity vs natural immunity has become even more pronounced with the delta variant.

I'd like to discuss this with you, PEACEFULLY if you will.

I have seen and read evidence that supports that position.  What makes it challenging is several studies have been performed to show how rare reinfection is.  We have yet to hear how many, if any, reinfected people are being hospitalized and dying.  What do you feel can be inferred from this?

[10GaugeNeedles, BSN]

5 minutes ago, jive turkey said:

@10GaugeNeedles

This poster participated in another thread that dealt with reasons people wouldn't vaccinate.  This poster was one of many that argued against the idea of previously infected people foregoing the vaccine.

I would defer to this poster to answer your question as I don't think its our business to ask their medical history or vaccination status directly.  But I can tell you most here have expressed the previously infected should vaccinate too.

This response was sent previously. Not sure who I responded to buy this was my answer to the question.:

"I half disagree with you. The following study says two things to me. 1) disease induced immunity is effective at least 1 year after infection regardless (I repeat, REGARDLESS) of subsequent vaccination and subsequent vaccination increases the potency of natural immunity. 2) nobody under this study got covid one year post infection regardless of vaccination status. 

 

From the study [brackets added by me for emphasis]: "The data suggest that immunity in convalescent [that includes unvaccinated, post infection individuals] individuals will be very long lasting and that convalescent individuals who receive available mRNA vaccines will produce antibodies and memory B cells that should be protective against circulating SARS-CoV-2 variants."

 

So while I agree with you vaccines do enhance the immune response from natural immunity, unvaccinated people were still covid free. Why might that be? Do we actually need that extra boost? That isn't clear to me at this time."

 

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03696-9

I think natural immunity is likely adequate. However, there's clear evidence to show it is substantially improved with subsequent vaccine. I'd call it "beneficial, but not mandatory." That's my opinion.

[MunoRN, RN]

6 hours ago, 10GaugeNeedles said:

I respect your position. I understand what the manufacturers claim about their products. I get it and I'm not against vaccination in general (just got my tdap booster a week ago). I respect your position in support of this. I hope you can return the favor. It was claimed that the viral load was confined to injection site. That is not apparently the case. I'm not making this up and I'm not the only one concerned. Here is a letter to the editor from BMJ. https://www.bmj.com/content/373/bmj.n958/rr-1

It's not long, but please read it to understand these concerns of mine are not conspiracy theory. If spike protein crosses the blood brain barrier, that's a potential for stroke. If the protein ends up in the kidney, that's a potential for renal disease. The letter outlines a discussion about platelet activation. Some drs are running small scale studies on clotting with up to 70% positive ddimers. Etc. All the pro vaccine people are completely ignoring anyone with concerns and that is alarming to me. My risk for serious disease is low given my profile. They are telling people with active anti bodies they still need the vaccine. They do not. This is immunology 101 here. There's too much cognitive dissonance to ignore from authorities imposing mandates. It is not unreasonable to have concerns about these vaccines. That's all I'm saying. 

I don't thing it was ever claimed that the immunologic response to an mRNA or any other vaccine is isolated to the injection site (there is no (viral load of an mRNA vaccine).  A b and t cell mediated response is by definition systemic.

The mRNA tells the cells how to recognize Covid, and is destroyed in the proceess.  The Covid spike proteins the antibodies are then trained to recognize are inert.  I think there's an impression out there that the vaccine causes your body to make virulent Covid viruses which then circulate.

It's the difference between communicating to someone the description of a murderer by sending the murderer to their house vs sending them a picture of the murderer.  The vaccine causes cells to show antibodies a picture of the enemy, it doesn't cause them to produce the enemy.

The advantage to mRNA vaccines is that "traditional" vaccines require a number of steps before it gets to the step where your mRNA gets involved, much of the adverse effects and loss of efficacy occur due to these extra steps that mRNA vaccines negate the need for.