Is it true that a BSN will be mandatory soon?

tferdaise · Sep 15, 2008

WOW... FIrst off, I'm not the one to get angry at ok. I'm working towards my BSN currently and agree that there should be a single entry point into nursing...

But currently hospitals will take any RN that has a valid License. WHY, because of the shortage, In each region of the country there are different needs, here in Southwest nurses (LPN and RN's) are in very high demand. Wages are excellent for both. Of course there are more ADN RNs then BSN RNs so the hospital takes what it can get. Currently my hospital is working with a local univerisity in which said univerisity teachers come to our campus and teach the RN to BSN program. The cost is free to any RN who wants its (emlpoyer pays). They also offer a MSN program too at work in leadership or education. Why are they doing this, well, because we want to achieve Mangnet Status, and to do that, you need X amount of BSN to RN, to LPN ratio's.

So to get back atthe subject at hand, if two RN walked into our HR office tomorrow (monday) and submitted thier resume's, and they both have the same amount of expereince, the difference being, one has thier BSN, they both would get hired, that is just fact. Now if they were going after the same job (just one opening), and in the job discription it says, Prefered BSN, I would assume the BSN RN would get the job since she has the prefered degree.

So in all fairness each person on this board has a vaild point, but as I see it in the Southwest, any RN who has a valid license well get a job, period..

But, that's just it...THEY PREFER BSN'S OR MSN'S! Can you honestly say if you took 2 nurses with the same level of experience and one has a BSN and the other has an ADN, it won't make a difference? IT MAKES A DIFFERENCE!

PMFB-RN, RN · Sep 15, 2008

[The nurse manager should have a nursing background and a management degree.

*** Yes of course. That is exactly what I already suggested.

I've seen manager's who weren't nurses working in these positions and they dont' have a CLUE as to what's going on. A friend of mine told me she once had a nursing manager who had a Master's degree in education...it was a disaster and she didn't last long! Can you imagine, a nurse manager who's not a nurse

*** No and nobody has yet suggested that.

PMFB-RN, RN · Sep 15, 2008

Having a unified entry into practice will unify us like no other way.

*** That may be your opinion but I see nothing to indicate that at all. It is counter intuitive to me.

ADNs and Diploma grads will be grandfathered in, and not made to earn a BSN.

*** I agree there should be a single entry point. I would be far more likely to support that point being a BSN IF the BSN wasn't swuch a useless fluff degree, lacking in real content.

And here we are, nurses responsible for peoples' live, entering the profession with as little as one year of post HS education. Is there any wonder why we have so little credibility in the business and corporatate world? As I said, the public may think that we are wonderful, but lets ask for more money and we will hear," what do you 'girls' expect? You only went to school for two years'".

*** maybe the problem is the "girls" part. Lets reserve half of all seats in nursing prograqms for men and let them sit empty if not enough men apply. If ever around 1/3 to 1/2 of RN are men nursing will change and be though of so differently than it is now you won't recognize it.

Susan9608 · Sep 15, 2008

If ever around 1/3 to 1/2 of RN are men nursing will change and be though of so differently than it is now you won't recognize it.

Why? Why should the gender make up of a profession change the way a profession is thought of, especially if nothing else about that profession changes?

I would be far more likely to support that point being a BSN IF the BSN wasn't swuch a useless fluff degree, lacking in real content.

Perhaps if nurses could get behind the idea of a single, unified entry point, then we could design our own standardized BSN content that would eliminate what some refer to as "fluff".

lindarn · Sep 15, 2008

Why? Why should the gender make up of a profession change the way a profession is thought of, especially if nothing else about that profession changes?
Perhaps if nurses could get behind the idea of a single, unified entry point, then we could design our own standardized BSN content that would eliminate what some refer to as "fluff".

My point was, it seems the more education a nurse has, the less money that they make, with the exception of a male dominated profession like CRNA. I do not believe that nursing needs to change the gender makeup of the profesion to be thought of as professional, or to have the right to earn a higher salary with a higher degree of education, even if it is at the staff nurse level. I just think that with a higher education level we would be in a better position to command a higher salary.

I know that nursing should command a higher salary for the amount of work, expertise, responsibility, and importance in better patient outcomes. But our low level of education gives administration a reason the use the excuse that, "we only go to school for two years". It doesn't matter of it took someone over three years to complete an ADN, the degree is a two year community college degree. That is what is they and the public look at.

PTs OTs STs, pharmacists, out earn us significantly. Even physical therapy assistants have a two year associates degree as entry into practice. Has anyone ever developed a correlation between a shortage of physical therapy assistants and poor patient outcomes? No. But it has been proven in study after study that a shortage of RNs leads to poor patient outcomes. So why is nursing the most poorly educated of the health care professionals? It makes no sense.

We know that we do a great job regardless of our educational backgrounds. But it is the appearance of lack of education that the public sees. Just because they don't ask what you degree is, the public assumes that we have college degrees. I bet most would be surprised at how little education nurses really have. Two years is just not that long.

And I do agree that most BSN programs need an overhaul, with more relevant content. We should look at PTs, OTs, pharmacists, and see what classes they are taught in their graduate programs, and how that effects and/or helps their practice.

I know that business principles are part of their program, with the expectation, that many of them will open up their own practices/businesses and need information on small business formation is taught. It is taught at each program. Does this make them better PTs, OTs, etc? Probably not. But it gives them the freedom to do that if they want to. And hospitals know this, and have to work to keep them happy so they don't jump ship and go out on their own.

Most nurses don't have that option. I do think that it should be taught in school, and encourged for nurses to be Independant Practitioners, instead of employees. Unfortunatley, there is a big difference in individuals who pursue nursing and those who pursue PT, OT, etc.

Think how differently nursing would be if we were all independant contractors instead of employees. We would be calling the shots, instead of jumping through hoops to get even the minimum amount of patient care accomplished. Nursing needs to think outside the box. That is what needs to be taught in nursing school. JMHO, and my NY $0.02.

Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN

Spokane, Washington

Susan9608 · Sep 16, 2008

Linda - I agree with you.

I just thought that was a very sexist point of view made in a previous post that the way nursing is thought of will change once the profession is 1/3 to 1/2 men. Why should the profession garner any more respect simply because it's made up of men? Or, contrarily, why should the profession NOT garner respect simply because it's made up primarily of women?

That kind of thinking seems very out of place in this day and age, so I was hoping that wasn't what the poster intended ... which is why I asked "why?". :)

Elvish, BSN, DNP, RN, NP · Sep 16, 2008

It seemed, at least to my perspective, that the poster was saying that the outside world would take more notice of nurses were more nurses male. Not that s/he necessarily felt that that's right. :twocents:

PMFB-RN, RN · Sep 16, 2008

I just thought that was a very sexist point of view made in a previous post that the way nursing is thought of will change once the profession is 1/3 to 1/2 men.

*** It's not a sexist point of view, more an observation of how the world is, not the way I wish it where.

Why should the profession garner any more respect simply because it's made up of men?

***It absolutely SHOULD not. But it does. At least everything I have observed in my life experience up to now leads me to believe that to be so.

Or, contrarily, why should the profession NOT garner respect simply because it's made up primarily of women?

*** A very good question that I would also like answered. Who can we ask?

That kind of thinking seems very out of place in this day and age,

*** You mean in this day and age where men, on average make more than women doing the same job? Where even in nursing male nurses average 9% more pay than female nurses? As awful as that is, it is the way the world is right now. At least so far as I know.

PMFB-RN, RN · Sep 16, 2008

It seemed, at least to my perspective, that the poster was saying that the outside world would take more notice of nurses were more nurses male. Not that s/he necessarily felt that that's right.

*** Yes, exactly. Thank you.

lpnflorida, LPN · Sep 16, 2008

I do not see that the idea of having more men in nursing as a sexist idea per se.

However nursing for as long as I have been doing it. Has been looked upon as a second income for the most part. Even back in my early days , sitting in some of union meetings at the hospital they would tell us that very thing. Back then most of us did not argue that point, as at the time as we looked at each other 90% of us were female and married. That is one the thinking patterns which must change.

Fortunately that concept has been changing due to number one more men entering nursing. Follow by the numbers of women who became single and heads of households with children. Sadly just being single appears to lag behind as good enough reason for pay and benefits to increase.

tferdaise · Sep 16, 2008

Linda your posts reflect that of many on these forums. But the major problem with this post is not speaking for all..

First off, women make up majority of CRNAs in the US, CRNA's have been around for since the late 1800's in which the first documented CRNA was a catholic nun. Through the 20th Centruy most of the CRNA were women, and today. Granted more men are getting into, women make up most. At the hospital I work in, we have 18 CRNA's, of those 3 are Men. The reason why CRNAs make more money isn't because men are CRNA's, its the fact that there is a shortage of Gas Dr's...

Also, regarding pay for nurses, here in the southwest, a new grad RN can make 60K/yr, one with 5 yrs experience can make 90K, I know many RN's who are making 110K/yr. The southwest has a huge nursing shortage and the pay here is excellent.

But I agree, there needs to be a SINGLE entry point into bedside nursing..

My point was, it seems the more education a nurse has, the less money that they make, with the exception of a male dominated profession like CRNA. I do not believe that nursing needs to change the gender makeup of the profesion to be thought of as professional, or to have the right to earn a higher salary with a higher degree of education, even if it is at the staff nurse level. I just think that with a higher education level we would be in a better position to command a higher salary.
I know that nursing should command a higher salary for the amount of work, expertise, responsibility, and importance in better patient outcomes. But our low level of education gives administration a reason the use the excuse that, "we only go to school for two years". It doesn't matter of it took someone over three years to complete an ADN, the degree is a two year community college degree. That is what is they and the public look at.

ANPFNPGNP · Sep 17, 2008

Linda your posts reflect that of many on these forums. But the major problem with this post is not speaking for all..
First off, women make up majority of CRNAs in the US, CRNA's have been around for since the late 1800's in which the first documented CRNA was a catholic nun. Through the 20th Centruy most of the CRNA were women, and today. Granted more men are getting into, women make up most. At the hospital I work in, we have 18 CRNA's, of those 3 are Men. The reason why CRNAs make more money isn't because men are CRNA's, its the fact that there is a shortage of Gas Dr's...
Also, regarding pay for nurses, here in the southwest, a new grad RN can make 60K/yr, one with 5 yrs experience can make 90K, I know many RN's who are making 110K/yr. The southwest has a huge nursing shortage and the pay here is excellent.
But I agree, there needs to be a SINGLE entry point into bedside nursing..

Where I live, the RN's are making anywhere from $25 to $30 an hour. I think I remember hearing about a couple of ICU & ER nurses making around $35 per hour but that was with lots of experience. The NP's are making anywhere from $35 to $65 per hour.