Is it true that a BSN will be mandatory soon?

[szccdw]

An instructor of mine (I'm in another state) stated that she recently went to a national educators conference and that they were saying that within the next several years in NY it would be mandatory to have your BSN. Does anyone know anything about this? Thanks

[nursebabygirl 08]

ADN= evidenced-based research

BSN= evidenced-based research

After several discussions with fellow friends and co-workers which have either a ADN or BSN degree,we compared the classes in which are offered in both programs. There is one thing that among others that we had in both curriculums and that was evidenced-based nursing research. Although i'm currently in a BSN program; i must say that i came from a very strict, detailed ADN program. This prgoram is well known for having one of the highest NCLEX passing rates in the state(comparing both ADN and BSN programs). And not to sound ugly, but i think it's funny when i have one nurse(she has a BSN and has been a nurse for over 20 years) always asking me about procedures, standards of practice, and current meds used for unlabeled purposes. I do consider it somewhat flattering because she is actually willing to "learn" from someone younger and of a lesser caliber than herself.We complement each other well because i also love to learn and listen to her experiences in nursing. We feed off each other and the pt's benefit from having the best of both worlds:redbeathe

[tferdaise]

The only flaming you are going to get are from the people who have made this an emotional issue. I'm hoping you have come to this conclusion in a logical way... Welcome to the dark side...

You know, I may get flamed here, but I have been thinking a lot about these postings.

I have an Associate's degree. I think the posts that have struck me the most are the one about not being able to sell siding without a Bachelor's and the physical therapy assistants having a two year degree as well. I don't want to get into a big argument but my program required everything stated above, including patho, with the exception of statistics. I think that that class is what is holding me back from returning to school. I went through a great program, I believe I am an excellent nurse but it does seem degrading that the entry level isn't a Bachelor's

[HealthyRN]

ADN= evidenced-based research

BSN= evidenced-based research

After several discussions with fellow friends and co-workers which have either a ADN or BSN degree,we compared the classes in which are offered in both programs. There is one thing that among others that we had in both curriculums and that was evidenced-based nursing research. Although i'm currently in a BSN program; i must say that i came from a very strict, detailed ADN program. This prgoram is well known for having one of the highest NCLEX passing rates in the state(comparing both ADN and BSN programs). And not to sound ugly, but i think it's funny when i have one nurse(she has a BSN and has been a nurse for over 20 years) always asking me about procedures, standards of practice, and current meds used for unlabeled purposes. I do consider it somewhat flattering because she is actually willing to "learn" from someone younger and of a lesser caliber than herself.We complement each other well because i also love to learn and listen to her experiences in nursing. We feed off each other and the pt's benefit from having the best of both worlds:redbeathe

I agree that both ADN and BSN nurses must be able to use evidence-based research in clinical practice. This is a given and I wouldn't consider a nurse to be competent without understanding the concept and knowing how to use evidence-based practice. I certainly hope that it is included in ADN programs!

I also think that it's wonderful that you have someone that is willing to learn from you and you are willing to teach. I completely respect ADN nurses and I learned so much in my first nursing job in the ER from my preceptor, who had an ADN degree. Thank you for helping to illustrate that this argument is not necessarily about nursing knowledge and which type of program teaches nursing "better". ADN programs have been around for long enough that it is obvious that graduates have enough knowledge to pass the NCLEX and demonstrate a safe level of practice upon entry (just as BSN grads are). I'm certain that the "meat" of the curriculum is very similar in ADN and BSN programs.

However, I believe that it is those extra courses that really are important in adding a level of professionalism to nursing. In my BSN program, I took courses related to health care law and ethics, public health, and interdisciplinary team building in health care. Outside of my nursing program courses, I had the opportunity to take classes in numerous subjects- psychology, philosophy, foreign language, and history. Were these classes directed related to bedside nursing? Perhaps not always (although I have used the knowledge that I gained in many nursing situations), but I am a more-rounded person because I took these courses. That is the importance of a bachelor's degree. A bachelor's degree helps to prepare one for a career, not necessarily a job. So, even if someone decides that they no longer want to practice nursing, there are still options available. Not only that, but it puts you on the same level with other professionals and you share a similar knowledge base.

So, the question at this time is not really if we can cram the information that one needs to know to enter nursing into an ADN program. Obviously, we can. However, I do believe that this is changing as health care continues to change. The amount of knowledge that nurses need to know and be responsible for is always increasing and at some point, an ADN program is not going to cut it. And then there is the question if BSN nurses do provide higher quality of care. There is a small, but growing amount of research in this area, and I believe that is what will eventually lead to a mandate of raising the educational level of nurses.

[nursebabygirl 08]

I agree that both ADN and BSN nurses must be able to use evidence-based research in clinical practice. This is a given and I wouldn't consider a nurse to be competent without understanding the concept and knowing how to use evidence-based practice. I certainly hope that it is included in ADN programs!

I also think that it's wonderful that you have someone that is willing to learn from you and you are willing to teach. I completely respect ADN nurses and I learned so much in my first nursing job in the ER from my preceptor, who had an ADN degree. Thank you for helping to illustrate that this argument is not necessarily about nursing knowledge and which type of program teaches nursing "better". ADN programs have been around for long enough that it is obvious that graduates have enough knowledge to pass the NCLEX and demonstrate a safe level of practice upon entry (just as BSN grads are). I'm certain that the "meat" of the curriculum is very similar in ADN and BSN programs.

However, I believe that it is those extra courses that really are important in adding a level of professionalism to nursing. In my BSN program, I took courses related to health care law and ethics, public health, and interdisciplinary team building in health care. Outside of my nursing program courses, I had the opportunity to take classes in numerous subjects- psychology, philosophy, foreign language, and history. Were these classes directed related to bedside nursing? Perhaps not always (although I have used the knowledge that I gained in many nursing situations), but I am a more-rounded person because I took these courses. That is the importance of a bachelor's degree. A bachelor's degree helps to prepare one for a career, not necessarily a job. So, even if someone decides that they no longer want to practice nursing, there are still options available. Not only that, but it puts you on the same level with other professionals and you share a similar knowledge base.

So, the question at this time is not really if we can cram the information that one needs to know to enter nursing into an ADN program. Obviously, we can. However, I do believe that this is changing as health care continues to change. The amount of knowledge that nurses need to know and be responsible for is always increasing and at some point, an ADN program is not going to cut it. And then there is the question if BSN nurses do provide higher quality of care. There is a small, but growing amount of research in this area, and I believe that is what will eventually lead to a mandate of raising the educational level of nurses.

healthy RN, point taken. And it is a good point of view.

[83studentnurse]

I know there's been a proposal to require a BSN in 10 years for NJ nurses. However, it hasn't been picked up by anyone with actual legislative power and anyone even enrolled in an ADN/diploma program would be grandfathered in. I think the bigger issue isn't whether or not we'd be able to practice but whether or not we'd be in demand with a lot more BSN nurses in the market.

[loriangel14, RN]

Here in Ontario BSN is the requirement for new licensure with the existing RNs being grandfathered in.All diploma programs have disappeared.

[83studentnurse]

Actually, I think there's one thing often missing from many of the ADN v. BSN discussions -- many of us are now going into nursing after getting bachelor's degrees in other fields (some, like me, have management experience in highly professional fields). I am planning to get a diploma for my nursing education, but I also believe that I, and many like me, already possess the critical thinking skills, management skills, professionalism, etc. that BSN degrees are intended to offer. Yet, from what I can tell, we are just viewed as diploma or ADN nurses. It seems so unfortunate that the professiona doesn't yet seem to have a way of recognizing education in other fields.

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

Actually, I think there's one thing often missing from many of the ADN v. BSN discussions -- many of us are now going into nursing after getting bachelor's degrees in other fields (some, like me, have management experience in highly professional fields). I am planning to get a diploma for my nursing education, but I also believe that I, and many like me, already possess the critical thinking skills, management skills, professionalism, etc. that BSN degrees are intended to offer. Yet, from what I can tell, we are just viewed as diploma or ADN nurses. It seems so unfortunate that the professiona doesn't yet seem to have a way of recognizing education in other fields.

That's a whole other can of worms because usually no matter what the degree when you get your diploma you will take NCLEX as a new grad nurse and be ready for entry level nursing positions.

Not to degrade your experience, because it will definitely serve you well. But why should you be considered anything more than a Graduate Nurse with entry level skills when you finish your program? I worked with a nurse who was the director of a huge ER in a large hospital nearby here started out with an MBA and got an Associates Degree. Did he jump right into that management position when he was a GN? No he was an entry level nurse the same as his classmates. Did he get a BSN to advance his career away from the bedside? No he didn't, he already had enough management experience to not bother with that.

I think your past should be considered on down the line when you're looking for jobs other than graduate nurse jobs, and many employers do take it into consideration.

But sorry, as far as nursing go, you will be considered a Diploma Grad and nothing more. There's no shame in that whatsoever.

[83studentnurse]

Hi tweety,

I actually just meant that, down the road, I think past experience should be taken into consideration more than perceive it is currently. But you're right, a graduate nurse is a graduate nurse. In fact, I chose a diploma program instead of an ABSN program just because I think the clinical preparation is so much better and I know I need that as a new nurse. My background would help with management, but not at all with nursing.

Still, I get the impression that a BA (unfortunately, my bachelor's degree is in a totally unrelated field) doesn't do much good, that one still needs the BSN or MSN for more senior positions in most cases. I just wish that someone with a BA or BS + RN could get "BSN required" jobs. I know they can in some areas, but I have spoken with recruiters from several nearby hospitals and found that I will probably have to go back for additional education to be eiligible for more advanced positions. It just seems to be a little narrow-focused (on the BSN/MSN degree) and not on other education that might differentiate a lot of the second-career nurses from other ADN/diploma nurses.

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

You're definitely correct the Diploma program has good clinical time. You'll be ready to hit the ground running.

A lot of moving up without a BSN has a lot to do with being in the right place and the right time and the old "it's not what you know it's who you know". My friend got BSN required positions because he established a good reputation as a smart and capable leader as he moved from floor nurse to charge nurse and on up within the same organization. Once he got a management position and established some time as a manager, he had an impressive resume that didn't include a BSN but management positions and a Business Degree and he jumped up to a directorship level.

Good luck to you.

[PMFB-RN, RN]

You're definitely correct the Diploma program has good clinical time. You'll be ready to hit the ground running.

A lot of moving up without a BSN has a lot to do with being in the right place and the right time and the old "it's not what you know it's who you know". My friend got BSN required positions because he established a good reputation as a smart and capable leader as he moved from floor nurse to charge nurse and on up within the same organization. Once he got a management position and established some time as a manager, he had an impressive resume that didn't include a BSN but management positions and a Business Degree and he jumped up to a directorship level.

Good luck to you.

*** The hospital I work at used to have it's own diploma program. The last class graduated in 1988. Most of the nurse managers, mid-level managers and upper nursing managment are graduates of the hospital's diploma program. From where I am it sure seems that being a member of the "old girls" club of our hospital's diploma program graduates is far more important than holding BSN or MSN degrees.

[lindarn]

*** The hospital I work at used to have it's own diploma program. The last class graduated in 1988. Most of the nurse managers, mid-level managers and upper nursing managment are graduates of the hospital's diploma program. From where I am it sure seems that being a member of the "old girls" club of our hospital's diploma program graduates is far more important than holding BSN or MSN degrees.

But it is not like that in areas where there are BSN programs. It is a must to have at least a BSN for a management position. I remember the hospital where I graduated from and worked after graduation. It was the same thing. All of the managers and head nurses were graduates of the diploma program and they ran it like the Mafia. It was awful. They has no management experience and it showed. It will change in your hospital as more and more nurses are hired that have BSNs and they go after the management positons.

Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN

Spokane, Washington