Is it true that a BSN will be mandatory soon?

NatashaFromOregon · Jun 21, 2008

Natasha do they require you to sign a contract at one of the hospitals in order to do that?

Not that I know of. After you receive your ASN and pass the NCLEX you can work...wherever. I think some people (this is a very new program) are just going to continue to the BSN, some people will maybe work for a while and return to get their BSN within 2 years, and some will just stay with their ASN. Just depends. You are not contracted to a specific hospital because a hospital is not funding or reimbursing you for getting your BSN. It's just an option.

Susan9608 · Jun 22, 2008

I hear you Susan ; what do you think of accelerated BSN programs?

I don't really know enough about Accelerated BSN programs to have an educated opinion on them. I suppose, like anything else, it would depend on the quality of the program being offered.

I think one of the most wonderful things that could happen, that, is that if nurses decided for ourselves to raise the bar for entry point education, we could also decide for ourselves what entry-point education could entail - which would mean we could over haul all BSN programs out there to make sure they covered the content we feel is important, rather than what some administrative types believe we ought to be learning.

Of course, as long as so many nurses fight each other to keep nursing the lowest educated health care professional, we'll probably never get that opportunity, and at some point, some administrative types - especially as consumers have to pay more and more $$ for health care and get more educated themselves and desire their providers to have the highest education possible - are going to *force* nurses into this. It's my feeling that we should do it on our own, when we will have the control over how, when, and why ... and how it's implemented.

WinterWolf90 · Jun 22, 2008

I personally don't know much about the difference between a ASN compared to a BSN, but given the fact that almost all of the schools where I live have gotten rid of the ASN it only left me with the choice of a BSN. I think this was the better choice for me anyway, because where I live they don't even consider ASN for promotions or other things unless they go back to school and get a BSN.

markdanurse · Jun 23, 2008

Social work is one of those fields where you have to have a Master's degree in order to make money. (sort of like a psychologist).
My sister is a social worker with a masters degree and made $75000 her first year here in Florida.
She is has respect from her peers because she has a masters degree. Too bad the same can't be said for nursing.
That's why I think nursing should be paid according to degree, certification, specialty, and to some extent experience.

Okay, Uhhh, $75,000 a year in Florida for a master's prepared social worker? That does not sound right. I know of no entities that pay that much for an MSW. A psychologist holds a PhD of PsyD in the field, not a master's degree. And you would be hard pressed to find a psychologist who makes that much in the field, unless he or she was in private practice, university professor position, or in a government position. Most behavioral health/ social welfare degrees do not pay that much. In my state, the MSW's in my hospital make less than an ADN prepared RN.

If your sister does make that much, then she is the exception to the rule. (And good for her!)

markdanurse · Jun 23, 2008

Hello all!

I just wanted to put in my 2 cents here regarding this mandatory BSN issue. There are many other fields that accept an associate's degree to perform the job successfully in healthcare (i.e. respiratory therapists, radiology technician, radiation therapist, ultrasound technicians, echocardiographers, MRI technologists, Nuclear medicine technicians, etc.) Sadly, many of these jobs I've just listed make as much as, and in some cases, more than RN's regardless of the RN's preparation level. I don't see anyone pressing those groups to go back to school to get a BSc or BA degree to continue to do their jobs. Most people would contend that these people do their jobs just fine without the almighty bachlor's degree.

I would also like to point something else out. Why can't we have multiple points of entry into our field? Why do we have to be like everyone else's field? What's wrong with being unique or individual? I am proud that I work with people from varied backgrounds. I work with new rookie RN's in their 20's. I work with the 43 year old mid-career changer. I work with the business owner who decided he wanted to give something back and became an RN. All of these RN's are great people and even better nurses. You don't need a BSN to be unified! All RN's and LPN's can unify no matter what their educational levels.

Look at plumbers, electricians, carpenters, etc. These occupations have unions (at least in my state). They make good money and have good benefits. But most importantly, they stick together and are recognized as experts in their fields. Electricians work with dangerous materials that could kill them or those around them if not properly set up, repaired, or used correctly. Being a plumber has it's own complications too, as does being a carpenter. Maybe we should make these occupations get bachelor degrees too?

I think it absolutely absurd that some professions have gone to a doctoral degree. Come on now! To be a pharmacist requires a doctoral degree? Please! To be a physical therapist or an audiologist requires a doctoral degree? Why? Even occupational therapy is going to a doctoral degree! These professions do not have a broad scope of practice. In fact, their SOP's are rather narrow and limited. But heck, if we can squeeze huge student loans out of people and make them spend years in school so they can call themselves "doctors", then why not? Thank Heavens nursing isn't like that!

Embrace your profession! We are unique! We are important! The level of educational preparation does not define us! Nursing can organize and achieve respect! Respect isn't given, it's earned!

nursebabygirl 08 · Jun 23, 2008

I personally don't know much about the difference between a ASN compared to a BSN, but given the fact that almost all of the schools where I live have gotten rid of the ASN it only left me with the choice of a BSN. I think this was the better choice for me anyway, because where I live they don't even consider ASN for promotions or other things unless they go back to school and get a BSN.

Yeah,

I'm currently attending a university to obtain my BSN. This university does the RN-BSN program online. One of my major reasons for wanting to go back and get my BSN is because i had very supportive clinical nursing instructors in school. And after really thinking about the difference they made in my education, i decided to try to do the same. At this time however i think that i only want to teach clinicals. Now for theory teaching you have to have a masters.Unfortunately a lot of "old school" nursing instructors who have a BSN and teach theory(and have been teaching for years) have refused to go back to get their masters. These teachers have threatened to quit or retire early before they go back to school. It's a shame because at this school there is already a 500 person waiting lists which can take up to three years to get to the top of, even with a good GPA. That list will now probably be more like 800-900 people fighting for 80 slots during the fall admission.

nursebabygirl 08 · Jun 23, 2008

Hello all!
I just wanted to put in my 2 cents here regarding this mandatory BSN issue. There are many other fields that accept an associate's degree to perform the job successfully in healthcare (i.e. respiratory therapists, radiology technician, radiation therapist, ultrasound technicians, echocardiographers, MRI technologists, Nuclear medicine technicians, etc.) Sadly, many of these jobs I've just listed make as much as, and in some cases, more than RN's regardless of the RN's preparation level. I don't see anyone pressing those groups to go back to school to get a BSc or BA degree to continue to do their jobs. Most people would contend that these people do their jobs just fine without the almighty bachlor's degree.
I would also like to point something else out. Why can't we have multiple points of entry into our field? Why do we have to be like everyone else's field? What's wrong with being unique or individual? I am proud that I work with people from varied backgrounds. I work with new rookie RN's in their 20's. I work with the 43 year old mid-career changer. I work with the business owner who decided he wanted to give something back and became an RN. All of these RN's are great people and even better nurses. You don't need a BSN to be unified! All RN's and LPN's can unify no matter what their educational levels.
Look at plumbers, electricians, carpenters, etc. These occupations have unions (at least in my state). They make good money and have good benefits. But most importantly, they stick together and are recognized as experts in their fields. Electricians work with dangerous materials that could kill them or those around them if not properly set up, repaired, or used correctly. Being a plumber has it's own complications too, as does being a carpenter. Maybe we should make these occupations get bachelor degrees too?
I think it absolutely absurd that some professions have gone to a doctoral degree. Come on now! To be a pharmacist requires a doctoral degree? Please! To be a physical therapist or an audiologist requires a doctoral degree? Why? Even occupational therapy is going to a doctoral degree! These professions do not have a broad scope of practice. In fact, their SOP's are rather narrow and limited. But heck, if we can squeeze huge student loans out of people and make them spend years in school so they can call themselves "doctors", then why not? Thank Heavens nursing isn't like that!
Embrace your profession! We are unique! We are important! The level of educational preparation does not define us! Nursing can organize and achieve respect! Respect isn't given, it's earned!

Amen my fellow nurse!!! :yeah:

MassED, BSN, RN · Jun 23, 2008

An instructor of mine (I'm in another state) stated that she recently went to a national educators conference and that they were saying that within the next several years in NY it would be mandatory to have your BSN. Does anyone know anything about this? Thanks

The ANA has been pushing this since 1965........ hasn't happened yet.

MassED, BSN, RN · Jun 23, 2008

This is a relevent topic for nurses at all educational levels. I think the degree "requirements" being proposed by some legislators have more to do with image (and who is backing them? Hospitals of course) than the skill level of the trade. ADN programs and BSN programs are virtually identical in their core nursing education. The BSN programs vary a little, but most have an additional course in statistics, maybe a nutrition course, a harder chemistry, and maybe two additional "nursing theory" courses. A couple of extra "embelishments" but the "meat and potatos" of how to become a rookie nurse are identical. The MSN programs add more theory courses and a little bit of "management". What's the reward for that extra BSN? Maybe a buck more an hour, for the MSN maybe another buck an hour. That's how much hospitals think of the extra education. The proof is in the pay, and the hospital chains don't care enough to pay. Of course they can use your education to promote themselves - use it as a marketing tool, but in their eyes, and most MD's eyes, and the public's eye, a nurse is a nurse is a nurse - nobody cares (except the nurses who have worked so hard) what kind of "alphabet" you have behind your name - BSN, MSN, CCRN, blah, blah, blah. They want you to be educated, of course, so they can use that to their advantage, but are not willing to reward you in a significant way. The issue of education is becoming worse in my opinion. There are to many nursing programs, and with the advent of online degrees, the educational problem is becoming even worse . What is happening is that the "market" is being flooded with thousands of new, "more highly educated" (who have no work experience) nurses, and this will lead to lower pay and lower respect for new RN's regardless of degree. There are 125 medical schools in the US and they consistantly average about 16,500 graduates a year. When was the last time you heard of an MD shortage in the US? Never. They are selective, choose the best candidates, keep the quality high, and "turn out" a limited number of graduates a year. You don't see online MD programs springing up like weeds. Thus, they can command high salaries and professional respect and have the power to control their compensation. The AMA isn't crying about an MD shortage, why should they? All that would do is flood the market with new MDs and they would earn less. The "nursing shortage" is a ploy to attract new people to the profession and lower pay scales. Hospitals don't care about your level of education (except to use it as a marketing tool), they want a cheaper employee. If nurses want their future BSN or MSN to have any status, they need to have more political clout and get laws passed that are favorable to nurses - and not just staffing ratios- but greater autonomy in patient care and in what "skills" and procedures they are allowed to perform, as well as how future nurses will be educated and how many will be graduated each year. We need to focus more on the politics of our profession if we want it to be respected and financially rewarding. Having a "caring nirturing attitude" and being "a well rounded people person" are not enough, neither is having a bunch of abbreviations behind your name that only you and your colleagues value.

"The "nursing shortage" is a ploy to attract new people to the profession and lower pay scales. "

Do you really believe that? Consider the population in our country for a moment with the baby boomers that are retiring and are living longer - the growth for nurses is not keeping up with the demand for the population's healthcare needs, period.

Do you believe it is a vast conspiracy within the healthcare market that there is not a nursing shortage? That's just crazy to believe that. Look at the facts - I can provide more if you need.....

"More than one million new and replacement nurses will be needed by 2012." http://www.aacn.nche.edu/Media/backgrounders/shortagefacts.htm

"75% of all hospital vacancies are for nurses (today)"

"a serious shortage of nurses is expected in the future as demographic pressures influence both supply and demand. The future demand for nurses is expected to increase dramatically as the baby boomers reach their 60s, 70s, and beyond." http://www.gao.gov

"According to the National Council of State Boards of Nursing, the number of first-time, U.S. educated nursing school graduates who sat for the NCLEX-RN®, decreased by 20% from 1995-2003." www .ncsbn.org

ANPFNPGNP · Jun 24, 2008

Okay, Uhhh, $75,000 a year in Florida for a master's prepared social worker? That does not sound right. I know of no entities that pay that much for an MSW. A psychologist holds a PhD of PsyD in the field, not a master's degree. And you would be hard pressed to find a psychologist who makes that much in the field, unless he or she was in private practice, university professor position, or in a government position. Most behavioral health/ social welfare degrees do not pay that much. In my state, the MSW's in my hospital make less than an ADN prepared RN.
If your sister does make that much, then she is the exception to the rule. (And good for her!)

I know a lot of social workers who are prepared at the Master's level and I've never seen one that made more than 50K a year and that was with years of experience.

Susan9608 · Jun 24, 2008

All those "tech" that you mentioned that are only required to have an associates degree are just that - "techs". They generally have a limited job description and limited responsibility. And I don't say that to minimize what they do in any way, for their contribution is very important. However, they manage only one aspect and that one aspect alone. EKG techs do EKGs, Nuclear med techs do nuclear med stuff. RTs also only manage RT stuff.

Nurses, on the other hand, have TOTAL patient responsibility, and in some cases, some units, and some hospitals do everything from the respiratory treatments to the dietary planning to the PT and OT. There is certainly enough scope and job responsibility there to warrant further educational expectations.

Again, I don't understand why nurses want to hold nursing back. So what if other professions are content to limit themselves to an associates degree or certification system? Shouldn't nursing demand more from itself?

PMFB-RN, RN · Jun 24, 2008

*** There is no nursing shortage. As has been pointed out here many, many times, if one looks at the number of licensed RN on state rolls there are more than enough to fill every nursing position. While some of those nurses would not go to work in nursing no matter what, they are retired, stay at home moms, disabled etc. most are simply working in other fields. There is no shortage of nurses, just a shortage of nurses willing to work under current working condition and pay.

"The "nursing shortage" is a ploy to attract new people to the profession and lower pay scales. "
Do you really believe that? Consider the population in our country for a moment with the baby boomers that are retiring and are living longer - the growth for nurses is not keeping up with the demand for the population's healthcare needs, period.
Do you believe it is a vast conspiracy within the healthcare market that there is not a nursing shortage? That's just crazy to believe that. Look at the facts - I can provide more if you need.....
"More than one million new and replacement nurses will be needed by 2012." http://www.aacn.nche.edu/Media/backgrounders/shortagefacts.htm
"75% of all hospital vacancies are for nurses (today)"
"a serious shortage of nurses is expected in the future as demographic pressures influence both supply and demand. The future demand for nurses is expected to increase dramatically as the baby boomers reach their 60s, 70s, and beyond." www.gao.gov
"According to the National Council of State Boards of Nursing, the number of first-time, U.S. educated nursing school graduates who sat for the NCLEX-RN®, decreased by 20% from 1995-2003." www .ncsbn.org