Is it true that a BSN will be mandatory soon?

[szccdw]

An instructor of mine (I'm in another state) stated that she recently went to a national educators conference and that they were saying that within the next several years in NY it would be mandatory to have your BSN. Does anyone know anything about this? Thanks

[valkyria, BSN, RN]

yes,

here in florida, i have heard rumblings to that effect. i heard from my professors that the state of florida has been trying for a long time to standardize the entry level for nurses to make them all at the bsn level. that idea has not gained alot of support mainly because there is too much money to be made from school programs for associate degree, diploma or even certificate programs throughout florida. you never really know by looking at an rn what level of education they have. the large organizations i am familiar with here in south florida do not deliniate between asn, bsn,diploma, or certificate, everybody gets a card that hangs under thier badge that reads rn. now if you are an arnp or crna then that is "special" but those folks are nurses too. i think it is an excellent idea. a bsn program, at least the one i went through, emphasizes "evidenced based practice", and that is what makes us a profession instead of just a job, right? there is research backing up what we do and why we do it. we are thinkers, and doers, but not just a doer. does that make sense? i was born in germany, my family is military, and there, if you study nursing, teaching, criminal justice, medicine, social work, engineering, anything that contributes to society-the government pays for your education. what a wonderful idea. imagine not being burdened with sallie mae loans and worrying about whether or not you did study all that additional time and you may not be able to get a job where you can afford to live and still pay your school loan obligation? i know we are a long way from that kind of policy. god forbid. some folks think that medical care for all is "socialist" and therefore an unspeakable evil. but that is another topic altogether. until something changes, we will be agruing this point for many years to come with no resolution in sight. um, last year, made their program longer and therefore more expensive and did fiu and barry. i see changes in the colleges and universities around here like i saw when i was teaching high school and the evil fcat was the end all and be all of "education". we were not teaching what we wanted or even what we were supposed to teach. we were not teaching the young people how to think or reason for themselves, we were teaching them how to take the test and be "successful". by that we meant, we were teaching them how to score high on the exam so our school could continue to be subsidized by the county/government. will the same thing happen to nursing? will there be drones that can pass the nclex but will not be able to think for themselves when life happens and that was not on the test? for all our sakes, i hope not.

[Multicollinearity, BSN, RN]

*** Physician Assistants are another example. You can be a PA with an associates degree, BS or masters. I don't see PAs being treated like nurses are. What they can do is bill for services. We don't, we are part of the room charge. If the goal is higher wages for nurses then unions are the answer, not BSNs.

Undergraduate PA programs have been phased out. As of now, entry into the PA profession requires a master's degree.

[CraigB-RN, MSN, RN]

Undergraduate PA programs have been phased out. As of now, entry into the PA profession requires a master's degree.

Better check out your facts.

[CraigB-RN, MSN, RN]

Undergraduate PA programs have been phased out. As of now, entry into the PA profession requires a master's degree.

http://www.aapa.org list accredited program, there aer even a few certificate programs out there.

Like an earlier poster said it's not the education, it's the fact tht we are included in the room rate that directs how we are looked at by hospitals. If we were actually revinue generating, things would be different. I made a personal choice many years ago, to only put my RN on my name tag. No one knows my educational background, just that I'm an RN. Of course people would take me more seriously if I could spell better.

Although the intentions are good with all this BSN, DNP stuff, I still have the impression we're throwing our money and time in the wrong direction. I may be wrong, because I definitly can't prove this. But I look at units that have developled a true colaberative workign environment,were the Doc's respect the nrses and the nurses respect the Docs. It's appears to be a reflection of maturity and not and educational based thing. The unit I'm thinking about has diploma, ADN, BSN, MSN on staff, and no one cares.

Of course the chances of nursing scraping its current educational model has about as much chance of happening as CMS has of allowing hospitals/Nurses to bill for their services.

[Ruffles 1]

There is such a shortage of nurses, how can the state require a BSN?

There would be no nurses at the bedside taking care of anyone. Everyone with a BSN would want to be in management and not patient care. It does not pay to get your BSN, the pay is not worth it, for as long as you have to go to college. Think about it. Who would be taking care of patients? Techs, Doctors, Med techs?

[Multicollinearity, BSN, RN]

www.aapa.org list accredited program, there aer even a few certificate programs out there.

Yes, I was being too brief. I should have said that in my state, PA education is only at the graduate level. We are getting off topic, but it is worth mentioning that the number of PA programs that are at the undergrad level are rapidly dwindling. There are also reimbursement issues with associate level PAs and some insurance companies. Not for grads from years ago - they are grandfathered in. I'm talking about new grads. I would bet money that within the next decade or so - all PA education will be at the grad school level. As I mentioned, it already is in my state. This is similar to how ADN RNs could gain their NP credential through apprentice-ships years back. That went away, too.

Back to the topic at hand though.

[PMFB-RN, RN]

Sometimes it is unbelieveable to me that I chose to enter a profession in which so many members do not see the value of education.

*** I am not one of them. I very much see the value of education. It's the reason I aquired one. Being able to see good and valid reason why we should not change the entry level for RNs does NOT mean we don't value education any more than seeing the benifits of an all BSN nurse pool makes one in favor of degree inflation.

I'm truly confused why so many are against a four-year degree.

*** Wait a second. The discussion was about BSNs, not four year degrees. Many ADN nurse already have 4 year degrees in other fields.

I am half way through an RN to BSN program, thus far I haven't learned anything I consider useful, or really much of anything I didn't already know.

[I_Gallagher]

Thank you SOOOOO much everyone for

1) Contributing to this thread and

2) Giving me the encouragement to continue onward in my nursing studies!

I heard this very same rumor TODAY in class. Since I prabaly will not be through with my ADN by 2010 I felt very discouraged!

Your responses to this thread gave me a clear picture of how very long this discussion (RN = BSN) has been going on!

Thanks again, folks!

[queenjean]

Sometimes it is unbelieveable to me that I chose to enter a profession in which so many members do not see the value of education. I'm truly confused why so many are against a four-year degree. Perhaps it has something to do with the "quickest, easiest" mentality I see reflected in so many threads that deal with education.

Perhaps it is not how you perceive it. I hope you see both sides of the coin; just because someone does not support mandatory BSN for a minimum requirement does not mean they do not see the value of education. I think that many of us can look beyond the education we received in the classroom and realize experience is quite the education in and of itself. I see beginning ADN and BSN students all the time on our floor--none appears to have an advantage over the other. They both just spent two years in nursing school.

Different paths to a common end are not necessarily bad.

[RNGrad2006]

know what I'd like to see in this thread? someone explaining how a state (pick one, it's up to you) will fund this monumental overhaul of nursing education! It's only been mentioned a couple of times that you need an MSN or PhD to teach beyond the ADN level, and in some states, an MSN is required to teach beyond the LPN level. And guess what those instructors make? Not a heck of a lot- especially considering the other areas they can pursue for more cash. University instructor pay is abysmal- I have several friends who teach at the university level, and until you're either published somewhere or tenured, the pay sucks. Meanwhile, an ADN could take a travel job and make a six-figure income. No wonder the equation isn't working!

Oh, and don't forget how many clinical instructors you need. I believe the law in NC was 1 instructor for every 8 students on the floor. Even if you're grandfathering in all the current ADN and Diploma nurses, you still have a HUGE population of people you'd need to divert into BSN programs. Will the clinical instructors need an MSN as well?

Even if the states find the cash to pay all these extra instructors (and future instructors will need $ to pay for grad school- I doubt hospitals are going to foot the bill if the new MSN/PhD is going to teach full-time instead of work solely for the hospital), they'll have to make BSN programs accessible to those considering nursing school who:

- can't currently afford the BSN tuition (that was me)

- have college credits from other programs that are too old to transfer (that was me as well)

- have another Bachelor's degree but don't have access to a 2nd degree accelerated BSN program

- can't afford to spend 4 years in a job with flexible enough hours to allow for the demands of nursing school- because, quite frankly, most of these jobs (i.e. CNA, EMT, etc.) don't pay well enough to keep a roof over one's head for very long (yep, me again!)

So...the states are going to have some cash flow issues. Will they increase taxes? Charge more for university tuition? Build toll roads? Squeeze the already stretched public school system some more?

Am I missing something here? Or is this the reason states haven't pursued this?

Canada kept talking about enforcing this and making all nurses have their BSN's by year 2000 and it was not possible. The way many provinces dealt with it was just closing all the ADN programs and ONLY offering BSN programs. In BC this started in 2003 but not sure about the other provinces. I think Ontario only allows BSN grads but not sure if they grandfathered the nurses with previous degrees prior to a certain year. In BC anyone with a license was not forced back to school but anyone entering nursing school has only one option but a BSN education. But the nursing shortage has really increased since then. I am working on my ADN to BSN and I think I am learning a lot as I am continuing with school while I am gaining experience but it is not for everyone. I think it is a wonderful opportunity which is why I am taking advantage of it since my employer has a generous tuition reimbursement and even offers direct billing to the university I am attending. It takes a while to get it done but I can't imagine taking more than one course at a time betwen work, school, and family issues.

[doggybour]

Hi nurses,

I recently heard this rumor by a friend who works in a facility. it is said that the purpose of this is to ensure that everyone hired to a hospital or facility has at least a BSN and not ADN. has anyone heard something like this??? If this is started will it affect the nursing occupation??? what will happen to students who graduate with ADN degree?? will they be hired or not... the future seem breek....

[PMHNP10]

not gonna happen