Is there really no way to refuse a mandatory flu shot?

[tariqblaze]

Besides the medical and religious reasons which are clearly only for a rare few, is there really no hope for the healthcare occupation and those who refuse under all circumstances to get a flu shot? I was looking online to find some solutions on how to opt out, but unusually I was not able to find any type of viable solution that I could particularly use except for possibly lying which may or may still not even work.

Gestapo at its finest. Lets just hope another vocation is hiring. Clearly this isnt the field for me, or at least the particular facility.

[ksrn20]

It's pretty scary to read some of these posts. Does it not matter to anyone the effectiveness of this vaccine? Or the long term effects of it? Yes I do get that patient safety is of upmost importance but, getting a flu shot to uphold that is just a farce. There are hundreds of strains of the flu each season, countless other bacterial infections, and we are relying on one "super vaccine" that happens to be less than 60% effective and contain only 3 strains? What happened to EBP? This vaccine is not like getting the Hep. B, polio, MMR, or any other childhood vaccine because unlike the flu shot, those are actually EFFECTIVE! I'm on board with the menningococcal vaccine which is only effective for about 5-10 years. But, at least with that particular vaccine, you are actually immuring yourself from a deadly disease. Most people who get the flu will recover, for a small few there are complications. And that is why I believe those people who are immunocompromised, such as those in hospitals, should be encouraged to get vaccinated (just for the sake of saying you tried, I guess). However, it should be an OPTION! Most healthcare professionals know better to stay home when feeling sick, and to really feed into the hype how about everyone walk around with masks and gloves. The flu is transmitted by droplets, up to 3 feet. Why don't we all walk around with masks and gloves at least that practice has been proven to be effective![/quote']

Seriously? This post makes me cringe. You do understand the concept of herd immunity, no? Many times those immunocompromised patients are unable to receive the vaccine which makes it so, so important for everyone that can, to be immunized.

Where is your data that the flu isn't that big of deal? I see you're a pre-nursing student so maybe you haven't see any actual cases. Do you know that many flu cases in pediatric patients are causing seizures this year? Have you taken part in intubating a 4 week old baby with severe respiratory distress from the flu? How about the other 6 intubations on infants under 6 months? How about the sudden passing of a healthy 5 year old girl with a positive flu test? Well I have.

You have no basis with your claim that the flu shot is ineffective. Rather, there is an overwhelming amount of evidence demonstrating the effectiveness. Also, some of this year's flu vaccine protects against 4 strains rather than the 3 you state.

And another thing, the transmission is up to 6 feet, not 3.

By the way, maybe someday is your child or loved one falls into the "small few with complications" as you put it, maybe you'll think differently.

[wtbcrna, MSN, DNP, CRNA]

"Flu Myth #1: The seasonal flu is annoying but harmless.

There has been a lot of focus on swine flu, but it's important to remember that the run-of-the-mill seasonal flu can be a serious condition itself. "A lot of people just think of the flu as a very bad cold," says Curtis Allen, a spokesman for the CDC in Atlanta. But it's much worse than that.

For one, you usually feel terrible. In addition to the congestion and cough, you're apt to have nasty body aches and fever, which are less likely with a garden-variety cold. "When you get the flu, you know it," says Christine Hay, MD, assistant professor at the University of Rochester Medical Center. "You feel like you've been hit by a Mack truck."

Aside from the short-term misery and lost workdays, flu can have more serious implications. Sure, most people who get the seasonal flu recover just fine. But the seasonal flu also hospitalizes 200,000 people in the U.S. each year. It kills between 3,000 and 49,000 people. That's close to the number of women killed by breast cancer each year, and more than twice the number of people killed by AIDS.

Flu Myth #9: If you're young and healthy, you don't need to worry about getting the vaccine.

First of all, we should all get the seasonal flu vaccine. Sure, if you're in good health, you'll probably recover from the seasonal flu just fine. But why suffer through the flu if you can avoid it? Second, protecting yourself isn't the only reason to get vaccinated.

"Healthy adults forget that while they themselves might be at low risk for getting serious flu complications, other people in their family might not," says Hay. If you have a small child at home, or an older parent, your failure to get yourself vaccinated could endanger them.

And that's true on a larger, societal level. People with the weakest defenses, like children under 6 months, can't get the flu vaccine. Their safety depends on the rest of us getting immunized.

Flu Myth #11: Vaccines are dangerous.

In recent years, there's been growing mistrust of vaccines, including the flu vaccine. Some believe that there could be a link between vaccines -- specifically the ingredient thimerosal -- and developmental disorders in children, like autism. However, there is no evidence that vaccines cause autism, and experts say that we're losing sight of how important vaccines are.

"Vaccines are, arguably, the greatest medical advance in history," says Perl. They've prevented more illness and death than any treatment.

If you're still concerned, you should know that there are thimerosal-free flu vaccines available. In fact, every year, manufacturers produce more of this vaccine than people use. If you want your child to get it, just ask your doctor."

13 Flu Myths: Myths About the Flu Vaccine, Treatments, and Prevention

"2. 'It doesn't really make a difference if I get the flu shot or not'

Nothing could be further from the truth. It DOES make a difference.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimates that vaccinations prevented 79,000 flu hospitalizations and 6.6 million flu-associated illnesses during the 2012-13 influenza season. Complications from the flu can be serious and result in hospitalization, and even death, for some patients. The best way to prevent the flu is to get vaccinated." 7 myths about the flu vaccine and why you should get it anyway - CNN.com

[jordan1230]

Working in the ER, I don't usually see if these people die...I just see them get intubated and end up in an ICU. I know this is just a little complication and if they don't die, no big deal.

Are you kidding me? When did I ever suggest that complications such as those were "no big deal". Cute though...

[elkpark]

I do realize the flu can be deadly. But, how many healthy people do you know really got the flu, A., or B. died from it?

Gee, I don't know, personally, of any healthy person who died of the flu. On the other hand, the people I work around all day, every day, are definitely not healthy; they are ill and compromised enough to need to be in the hospital. The flu can easily be deadly to many of them, and they came to the hospital to get better, not to catch a illness that can easily finish them off.

[jordan1230]

Relax ksrn20.

By herd immunity do you mean diseases that can be eradicated? Like polio? Again like I've stated before most childhood vaccinations have a higher efficacy rate than the flu vaccine. So I support that. Not only that but the flu vaccine, protects against 3 to (like you pointed out) 4 strains. You're right there is 2 quadrivalent vaccines available. But, the 5 other types that most people would get is the trivalent. This is because one the quadrivalent vaccines is the nasal spray which is available to HEALTHY people only. (People who would not suffer from complications from the flu.) And no, I do not have the number on hand of the children who are suffering from seizures. That is horrific and it's tragic that a little girl lost her life. According to the CDC website, it clearly states that the effectiveness of the flu shot can range "wildly" and that it depends on A) the health of person being injected and B) the match of the strain being circulated in the community. They even state that there are seasons when it's not effective at all. "

However, even during years when the vaccine match is very good, the benefits of vaccination will vary across the population, depending on characteristics of the person being vaccinated and even, potentially, which vaccine was used" (CDC Website). Sounds to me like something that should be FORCED. If healthcare workers are around critically ill patients, then why shouldn't all of them wear masks and gloves? Even if they had the flu shot they are still vectors for other viruses other than flu, bacteria, etc... And another thing... When did I ever suggest that being intubated was a "small complication". That's ridiculous.

[jordan1230]

Gee, I don't know, personally, of any healthy person who died of the flu. On the other hand, the people I work around all day, every day, are definitely not healthy; they are ill and compromised enough to need to be in the hospital. The flu can easily be deadly to many of them, and they came to the hospital to get better, not to catch a illness that can easily finish them off.

Gee, then shouldn't they be the ones who get the flu shot?

[wtbcrna, MSN, DNP, CRNA]

Gee, then shouldn't they be the ones who get the flu shot?

The flu vaccine works best on young healthy adults i.e. the ones most likely to HCWs, so if the flu shot doesn't work as well on people with poor immune systems (geriatrics for example even though it will decrease the severity of the flu in this population too) so why not vaccinate the HCWs so they do not become "vectors" for the flu.

If we can eliminate the ones, through vaccination, most likely to spread the flu in healthcare setting (that is HCWs) it makes since we would mandate flu vaccines for HCWs.

It doesn't make sense to say well I don't like the flu shot because it isn't perfect and although very safe the flu vaccine isn't as safe as I would like it so I am going to skip the flu vaccine and to heck with patients and their dysfunctional/old immune systems who cares if they get sick or die because of my lack of being immunized….

[itsmejuli]

I work in something similar to assisted living. Last month one of our residents was taken to hospital, turns out she was diagnosed with H1N1. This one resident was the only person to contract H1N1 out of 150 residents, support staff and nursing staff.

Turns out she had probably been exposed to H1N1 while visiting a hospital a week or so earlier. I don't know if she'd had the vaccine.

Flu shots are given in the facility in the fall, most residents get the shot as do the facility staff. Our nursing staff is expected to get the flu shot but its not mandatory.

This one resident was sick for at least 4 days before going to hospital. I can't imagine how many other people were exposed to her illness during this time. Turns out that the NAs who had been caring for her had had their flu shots.

Thanks to the majority of people in this facility having had flu shots we didn`t go into an H1N1 outbreak.

[wtbcrna, MSN, DNP, CRNA]

I work in something similar to assisted living. Last month one of our residents was taken to hospital, turns out she was diagnosed with H1N1. This one resident was the only person to contract H1N1 out of 150 residents, support staff and nursing staff.

Turns out she had probably been exposed to H1N1 while visiting a hospital a week or so earlier. I don't know if she'd had the vaccine.

Flu shots are given in the facility in the fall, most residents get the shot as do the facility staff. Our nursing staff is expected to get the flu shot but its not mandatory.

This one resident was sick for at least 4 days before going to hospital. I can't imagine how many other people were exposed to her illness during this time. Turns out that the NAs who had been caring for her had had their flu shots.

Thanks to the majority of people in this facility having had flu shots we didn`t go into an H1N1 outbreak.

That is actually very interesting thanks for sharing.

Gestapo at its finest.

Yeah, requiring a vaccination in order to perform a job is analogous to a secret police force tasked with disappearing, torturing, and murdering people.

Very strong argument you've posed.

Lets just hope another vocation is hiring. Clearly this isnt the field for me, or at least the particular facility.

The good news is, there's no nursing shortage at all so they'll have no trouble replacing you.

[psu_213, BSN, RN]

Just a hypothetical scenario here...a nurse decided he/she was going to exercise his/her personal freedoms and not get the flu shot. OK, I suppose this is that person's right. He/she go into a room of a CA patient who completed her last round of chemo a few days ago. Turns out they have an ANC of 485. They have nothing to worry about because they knew they could get immunocompromised from the chemo so the got they flu shot. Oh wait, they are allergic to eggs and can't get the shot. So now that decision by that nurse to exercise his/her "bodily autonomy," as someone put it in another flu shot discussion, actually does put a patient at risk.

It really isn't as simple as "gee, they [the patients] should be the ones getting a flu shot."

[fetch, BSN, RN]

Relax ksrn20.

I would respectfully like to submit that you seem to be more worked up about this topic than anyone else, AEB your all-caps words and multiple posts on similar threads in this forum. You also seem to be completely misunderstanding any of the peer-reviewed information provided to you. I'm not sure if that's a deliberate act to stir the waters, or if you genuinely don't understand.

Yeah, requiring a vaccination in order to perform a job is analogous to a secret police force tasked with disappearing, torturing, and murdering people.

Very strong argument you've posed.

That was my same thought as well. Isn't there some kind of rule about invoking Nazis automatically means you lose?

If we can eliminate the ones, through vaccination, most likely to spread the flu in healthcare setting (that is HCWs) it makes since we would mandate flu vaccines for HCWs.

It doesn't make sense to say well I don't like the flu shot because it isn't perfect and although very safe the flu vaccine isn't as safe as I would like it so I am going to skip the flu vaccine and to heck with patients and their dysfunctional/old immune systems who cares if they get sick or die because of my lack of being immunized....

Wish I could give you a standing ovation. You consistently dismantle these bizarre arguments with such aplomb. I would end up giving myself hypertension if I tried to keep discussing this issue for long.

wtbcrna =