I'm a new nurse working at 2 snfs and I have to see signs in some of the offices say things like "Nurses are ordinary people with extraordinary hearts." What if I'm a nurse and I can't help but be cold and uncaring to everyone because of my condition?
I have had several patients pass away and I tried to feel bad for some of them. I think I feel a little bit shocked/sad for some patients who've passed away but it's not like I run home and cry myself to sleep whenever a patient dies. I just think that the deceased resident was suffering and it was their time to go and I move on.
Sociopaths don't usually feel sorry for anyone and I don't feel like I have to genuinely care about anyone in order to do my job.
I wonder if there are any other nurses who have ASPD and how they respond when someone wrongly assumes they're very empathic or able to feel sorry for others misfortunes just because they're a nurse.
Do I have to genuinely connect with someone's emotional distress to be their nurse or can I just fake it and provide their care just because it's my job?
Why wouldn't you be able to? Empathy often clouds the mind and makes some act in ways that are out of passion and not evidence based.
Sociopathy often clouds the mind and makes some act in ways that are not evidence based.
I watched a C.N.A. with a severely arthritic patient who was jerking her limbs around and ignoring her screams. She claimed that not doing this would make her worse. She didn't care about anything but herself.
They're known for putting people in crisis and being insensitive to the feelings of others. I've seen my coworkers deny people the right to water just to be obnoxious and had them prevent me from giving my patients adequate care. I think a sociopathic nurse would need rigid self-control to work in such close contact with people.
Being able to separate yourself emotionally from ANY job to a point is a good thing - or for me it is as I never want a job to BE my entire reason for being, just part of it (and a small part at that) . But, if OP has ZERO compassion/feeling for others then that makes me question OP would want to be in a care giving profession at all. Not sure why someone who is antisocial/sociopath would choosing nursing as a career given interaction on a consistent basis with others is normally part of most nursing jobs.
I think the fact that you're concerned about it sounds like you're probably not a sociopath or antisocial disorder. Your family member sounds like an armchair psychologist who "read a thing one time about someone" and now thinks they know 10 sociopaths.
I don't like all this "nurses are angels", "nurses have extra large hearts" BS. It's demeaning of us as medical professionals and I personally think it contributes to the verbal abuse we take because it dehumanizes us. I'm not an angel, I'm a human. Please treat me as such and I will do the same for you.
As to the deaths, I agree with the person who said that the RN crying themselves to sleep about every death has very poor boundaries. Especially if you're in a SNF, a lot of your patients are likely older adults with a lot of comorbidities who have been kept alive by their families and modern medicine regardless of their personal wishes/quality of life. My personal take on it is this: Death is part of life. It will happen to everyone eventually. There are things MUCH worse than death (Losing your mind, having a tube in every hole, being conscious and unable to communicate). I feel bad that the family is sad, I've been there and know how it feels. But I'm happy for the patient not being in pain or struggling anymore.
A strange post and confession. People are too quick to label themselves and others without sufficient reasons. The OP would not be preferred for ICU and departments with life and death patients. In the right department with the right jobs, this personality issue may not matter, especially in a quiet slow environment like office work.
The attitude sounds very stoical--indifferent to suffering, detaching oneself, distancing, apathetic in a positive way protects one from becoming disturbed, upset, worried, etc. Taken as a virtue, it is supposed to bring peace of mind, according to the ancients, still useful today. But they were not referring to medical practice, professional care.
There are a couple of problems with your perspective that I'd like to touch base on. First, A family member has no place or basis for making a clinical diagnosis of ASPD. It would be best if you were NOT evaluating yourself by someone's amateur and most likely errant perspective. Only a professional can or should make such a serious diagnosis. If this is a concern, go to a clinical psychologist and take an MMPI2.
Second, just because you don't share the same empathy as someone else does NOT mean you have ASPD or are a sociopath. Everyone has variant levels of empathy based on the number of mirror neurons-[1] Discovery of "mirror neurons" throughout the brain work together to make up the somatosensory association cortex- emotion/empathy center. In the post, you indicate you are a male. Biological males tend to have fewer mirror neurons than biological females. Empathy is not a have it or don't have it emotion. It is a spectrum.
Third, having a lower volume of mirror neurons can help you be more effective in a clinical setting. You will tend to be calmer in crisis. You will tend to be more objective in assessment. You will be less drained from the emotional wear. Being aware of your place on the spectrum is part of emotional intelligence.
In my 30 years of clinical work in psych (RN, Ph.D.), I have studied this extensively, written and spoken on it. I find many who have a lower volume of mirror neurons struggle with the same concern as you. Many also have to deal with family members making an inappropriate diagnosis. I wish you well on your journey.
Most nurses and doctors have sociopathic personalities/ narcissism according to studies...but not more than the general public. you'll fit in. Keep patients safe. Be respectful.
"Nursing professionals exhibited a significantly higher level of secondary psychopathy than medical professionals (p = 0.04, mean LSRP score 20.3). Within the cohort of medical professionals, surgeons expressed significantly higher levels of narcissism (p = 0.03, mean NPI score 15.0).”
Specializes in I've worked most every part of Psychiatry;.
My first thought is by asking in a forum if you are a decent Nurse due to being a "Sociopath". I doubt a Sociopatth would care! :-).
You said a " family member told you that". Does the family member have Psych backgroud? Sure the family member wasnt trying to discredit due to something else! Gosh it sounds more like gas lighting! I've been there. ". I would suggest talking to a professional like maybe a good mental health councilor to help find the cause of asking why.
I was told by some " Scott youre paranoid". Well? Its not Paranoia if it was a realality. Same type of gas lighting tactic! Just my thoughts! Level 111 Nurae step 8. Speciaty Psychiafry.
My first question is how was that diagnosis determined? Since you are asking the question it sounds like you care about being "decent". I
My last Manager was noted fo "r holding things over her staff". She had fits of rage hollering, caring on even flipped over a couch in front of the patients!! My last day there I contacted the police on her. (the police advised me to contact them " if she starts rearing up". She is still there! My guess is she has things over upper staff as well! Now there is a mental disorder. Actually I would say likely several!!
Specializes in Nurse Leader specializing in Labor & Delivery.
Bear92 said:
Second, just because you don't share the same empathy as someone else does NOT mean you have ASPD or are a sociopath. Everyone has variant levels of empathy based on the number of mirror neurons-[1] Discovery of "mirror neurons" throughout the brain work together to make up the somatosensory association cortex- emotion/empathy center. In the post, you indicate you are a male. Biological males tend to have fewer mirror neurons than biological females. Empathy is not a have it or don't have it emotion. It is a spectrum.
Third, having a lower volume of mirror neurons can help you be more effective in a clinical setting. You will tend to be calmer in crisis. You will tend to be more objective in assessment. You will be less drained from the emotional wear. Being aware of your place on the spectrum is part of emotional intelligence.
Great post, thank you! Can I ask you a corollary question, on the topic of mirror neurons (a concept that is novel to me). Do you have any advice or suggestions for the nurse who has a greater than average number of mirror neurons, on how to find balance? (I ask for a nurse who works in my clinic, who struggles with healthy boundaries and work/life balance)
Specializes in I've worked most every part of Psychiatry;.
That is a great post! I know I have a host of mirror Neurons one item though? You are basing this dx due to a family member telling you? I keep thinking likely the opposit!
A contientous New Nurse that wants to deliver good care and very vulnerable. Just my thoughts! Maybe go back to that "family member" and ask for what they based that dx. On?
I'm a new nurse working at 2 snfs and I have to see signs in some of the offices say things like "Nurses are ordinary people with extraordinary hearts." What if I'm a nurse and I can't help but be cold and uncaring to everyone because of my condition?
I have had several patients pass away and I tried to feel bad for some of them. I think I feel a little bit shocked/sad for some patients who've passed away but it's not like I run home and cry myself to sleep whenever a patient dies. I just think that the deceased resident was suffering and it was their time to go and I move on.
Sociopaths don't usually feel sorry for anyone and I don't feel like I have to genuinely care about anyone in order to do my job.
I wonder if there are any other nurses who have ASPD and how they respond when someone wrongly assumes they're very empathic or able to feel sorry for others misfortunes just because they're a nurse.
Do I have to genuinely connect with someone's emotional distress to be their nurse or can I just fake it and provide their care just because it's my job?
A good way to judge your care is that if you are OK with providing that kind of care, then you should be OK with a future nurse providing that type of care to your love one. A moderate amount of empathy is healthy, but obviously somebody who is overly emotional that cries himself to sleep Every time a patient expire is gonna not last long in the nursing profession at all do to burn out and unnecessary stress you were putting on yourself.
So no, you don't have to be overly empathetic to be a nurse to provides good care! But you should still provide "professional empathy" meaning you just "pretend to care to provide good care" if you know what I mean....and just look at it as part of the job you're being paid to do. You are being paid to maintain and promote the physical health of the patient.....but also their own mental health. Especially if they are being admitted for a psychiatric diagnosis.
if a patient is on hospice, then obviously, the goal is no longer to save them, but to make them as comfortable as they are so they can pass on. Part of your job as their nurse make them physically comfortable .....but also mentally comfortable. What's the point of pain medicine to be pain-free but yet their mind is full of anxiety about death about leaving behind their family for example? sometimes a conversation to relieve loneliness can be more effective than pain medicine.
So in the end, even if you don't care, do it anyway because you were being paid to do it. So yes, as you said, fake it, but in a "professional way.”
Also..... I really think you don't give yourself enough credit. There are very small things that are very empathetic that people don't think about. Running or walking fast to get a patient's pain medicine instead of walking slowly is empathetic. Charting in their room to stay with them instead of charting in your own quiet comfortable corner of the unit is empathetic. Sitting down to have a nice conversation with them even for five minutes is empathetic. Giving any sort of encouragement is empathetic. Calling engineering three times yourself to ask them to fix the temperature in the room to make the patient more comfortable instead of telling the clerk to do it when she's finished with her work 30 minutes later can also be empathetic! ( believe it or not)
All these above examples showed that you go an extra step for your patient in order to promote their physical or mental comfort when you don't have to or when you could have just delegated the task to somebody else who could have just done it at a much later time.Is this not empathy?
so I'm very sorry about the family member who said those things about you. Maybe you should take those things with a grain of salt or maybe not even take them at all. And honestly, I feel you should give yourself much more credit for what you do.
Why wouldn't you be able to? Empathy often clouds the mind and makes some act in ways that are out of passion and not evidence based. Personally I believe that empathy is a weak personality characteristic and something that I have never felt myself. The DSM is a very politically motivated document and not the end all be all. There are many people with Antisocial Personality "disorder" that live a very successful and meaningful life, contributing much to the world, so does that really make it a "disorder"?
Please read my reply to the OP in the previous post. Just like him I personally believe you're not giving yourself enough credit. You may be doing little things that are very empathetic that you may not even realize. empathy can be seen as kindness and why should your kindness be a weakness if it's a moderate healthy amount? Too much of it obviously can make you self-destruct. Therefore, I find it very hard to believe that you have never felt empathy before either for a patient or anybody in your real life. Empathy can be simple words or even a small action. Please see my previous post for examples.
And like I said, in the previous post a good way to judge your care is that if you're OK with the type of care you're providing to patients, you should be OK that a future provider give the same type of care to your love ones.
Also, being antisocial is a wide range. Of course they can live a very successful meaningful life contributing much for society, but you need to be aware of the severity too. Can be anything extreme like "I don't care what happens to you" to a mild version of "I just don't want to be around people too much.”
How would you feel if somebody say they don't care what happens to you or your loved one? Will you truly not feel anything negative? Even if in the end, you don't care because that's somebody's random opinion, but then think about the world that we live in if that is the attitude of the majority of the population? At the end of the day, why should I help anybody? I don't care! Why should I donate to charity or volunteer or help the less fortunate? I don't care! "Oh, your father, who was on hospice passed away? Well, we all knew he was gonna pass away at some point.. You guys are been crying for like 15 minutes now. OK I need to take him to the morgue now you guys need to go home so I can clean the room and admit another patient. Please go go"
……..????
Too much empathy is a bad thing. But a moderate amount of empathy is never ever bad. Should never ever be seen as a weakness. being empathetic means you care to a certain healthy point about another person (even strangers) even if you don't receive any thing back. It's one thing to fake being empathetic at work because you were being paid for doing your job. But are you not empathetic in your real life? So what have a random stranger in front of you drop their phone? Will you pick it up and give it back to that person or will you just keep on walking? Because you don't care right? because you are currently off the clock and not working so not getting paid, right? Even spending that extra 20 seconds of picking up their phone and giving it back to them is kindness and can be seen as empathy. Especially when you're not getting anything back in return Except maybe a simple thank you. Something as simple as that can make that person feeling very grateful for what you did.
Sorry for the long post, but in a nutshell: Too much empathy can burn out your mind and body in the short run. So avoid too much! But a moderate healthy amount can really be translated into kindness for your fellow human beings, even if they are simply strangers at the end of the day.
Specializes in Mental Health, Gerontology, Palliative.
I recall long time ago. A preceptor said me as student "your patients need you to be strong, they need you to go into the room and do what needs to be done. They don't need you being tearful and blubbering all over the place, its not to mean you can go into the sluice room and have a moment but then you suck it up and get out there again"
I freely admit I'm a huggy kind of nurse (only with permission mind) that said I want to know that my nurse colleages have the ability to get stuck in and get done what needs to be done as oppsed to being all blubby and tearful.
For your own sanity its a good thing to not go home every night and cry over patients. It's not to say you cant have a moment of "could we have done anything differently" but you have to find a way to leave work at work
Alnitak7
561 Posts
Sociopathy often clouds the mind and makes some act in ways that are not evidence based.
I watched a C.N.A. with a severely arthritic patient who was jerking her limbs around and ignoring her screams. She claimed that not doing this would make her worse. She didn't care about anything but herself.
They're known for putting people in crisis and being insensitive to the feelings of others. I've seen my coworkers deny people the right to water just to be obnoxious and had them prevent me from giving my patients adequate care. I think a sociopathic nurse would need rigid self-control to work in such close contact with people.