Is it legal/ethical for preceptor to sabotage student?

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My wife recently posted about the difficulties she has faced in a new ICU job. She is recluctent to leave because it was tough to find the position that she now has. However, just the other day when her preceptor asked her how she thought she was doing and my wife answered "fine" the preceptor basically said "well I've laid some traps for you that you haven't caught." For example (and this was the only specific that she admitted to) the preceptor said that she had disconnected one of client's chest tubes for four hours and that my wife had not caught the error. My response would have been "so you let a patient go without benefit of a chest tube for four hours due to a deliberate act?" . However, my wife simply smiled, said she would try harder, and learned to focus on the "floating ball" that indicates suction. My question is doing stuff like this (introducing errors to test whether the nurse will catch them and then letting those errors be implemented into patient care) ethical and legal?

With a title like that, you already know the answer.

If you look at this another way, maybe the real test was to see how the mrs would handle an obviously unethical situation. Was a smile and a nod the right answer? You have to have integrity, and sometimes you have to do things that are not pleasant because it is the right thing to do, even if it seems like a bad career move.

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Specializes in 5 yrs OR, ASU Pre-Op 2 yr. ER.

Sounds like there's more to the story.

Which is a little impossible to know unless a person was there seeing all of this.

We're going by one person's side of the story here, and not only that, it's through a second person.

The whole thing is fishy, and i get the feeling it never happened, as well.

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Specializes in Med-Surg, Trauma, Ortho, Neuro, Cardiac.

Let's just hope the nurse had an order to d/c the chest.

Otherwsie, yes it is illegal to d/c a chest tube only to test someone because that's practicing medicine without a license.

I think this approach to precepting is wrong and your wife should sit down with the manager and preceptor to discuss it.

I'm guessing your wife has been in preceptorship for a while, as this isn't the first post about her.

Towards the end of a preceptorship when the nurse is supposed to be getting the whole picture sometimes I'll sit back and see if they get it or catch something. This is not testing them, this is letting them go enough to be on their own, while keeping a watchful eye on them. Then we talk and I'll say "you did very good but you missed.......or you forgot to........". Maybe you and your wife are misunderstanding. Again, this is where a meeting would come in handy.

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Specializes in Ortho, Med surg and L&D.
Well since I wasn't there personally I cannot be absolutely sure it is the WHOLE story. Furthermore, the nurse stated exactly what she did (remove the chest tube to test my wife). In addition, I know my wife and she doesn't lie. ...

Hi Roland,

I did not read it as implying that your wife lied or that the manager did NOT state what she stated but, more accurately, that the manager was bluffing your wife.

How about something as simple as your wife asking the precepter..."HOW on earth and WHY on earth would you leave a chest tube unplugged for over four hours? What is wrong with you?"

Best wishes for everything. If possible I would defend your wife's integrity and license against this type of sabotage.

Gen

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Specializes in med/surg, telemetry, IV therapy, mgmt.

Roland. . .in answer to your question, no it's not ethical for a nurse to do what you've posted. Legally, I'm not quite sure of how to classify it, except perhaps malpractice, but it would have to be proven--someone would have had to find those circumstances in existence.

As I was reading what you wrote, I, too, wondered if there was more to this. What crossed my mind was that the preceptor is playing mind games and may have said something like this to see what kind of a rise she could get out of your wife. I'm a little confused here. Did your wife actually find any of these things the preceptor said she had done? I re-read your post and it doesn't sound like your wife ran across any of these "sabotages" which makes me think all the more that this lady may be playing mind games knowing that she is going to cause an orientee to be shaken up. This preceptor sounds like a nut job. And, if others in this ICU are cut from the same cloth, it's not that great a job. You don't help people learn by making them scared to death they are going to make mistakes that will cause them to lose their license.

Also, I take some personal offense to the thinking that med/surg is a step back. It is just as difficult for new grads to become acclimated in med/surg as in ICU. I worked in both areas. The tasks to be mastered in each setting is just different. I know many ICU nurses that just cringe and would rather eat nails than be floated to med/surg floors. It takes a great deal of intelligence and organization to manage the care of more than 2 patients at a time.

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Specializes in Vents, Telemetry, Home Care, Home infusion.

please check this post: icu - should i stay or go? to offer advice/comments in helping to deal with this situation.

letting my colleagues give their best advice as always!

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If she is already feeling stress and just orienting, doesn't that tell you something? ICU is a rough place the reason most places require at least a year's experience is because it is a hard place to work. I think the stress you talk about has allot less to do with the unit or the preceptor and maybe more to do with biting off a bit too much.

Your wife's ultimate goal is CRNA. I have heard many people say, "I don't want to be a nurse I just want to be a NP or CRNA". This is a very bad attitude and sets one up for heartbreak and failure. Advanced practice nursing was meant for experienced nurses. School programs have continually lowered the admission requirements to keep the programs full and funded. This is bad because many people end up dropping out and some that get threw have a really hard time.

CRNA's are very skilled people, it takes allot more then the 2-3 year graduate program for them to develop the skills they need. Maybe she should work as a nurse for a while and develop her skills. Then she could get her ICU experience and would have allot less stress when she does apply to CRNA School.

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Specializes in Psych, Med/Surg, LTC.

Sounds dangerously scary. I hope it isn't a true story for the patients sake.

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No way!!! Report her immediately to the liscensure board in your state! In Michigan that is grounds for dismissal,suspense of liscense, perhaps loss of liscense. On a step down unit, 2 nurses on 2 consecutive shifts did not have a pt connected to a heart monitor. When the 3rd shift nurse arrived & discovered a pt was not connected to telemetry for 16 hours...both were fired(regardless of seniority) & had to get lawyers because their liscense was being investigated.

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Sorry, but a nurse doesn't "remove" a chest as first stated above. But I am sure that there is more going on than what is poosted above. CT output is to be documented at least every hour, and sometimes even more. It needs to be docuumnented every hour that is is hooked to suction and what the suction is as well as if there is an air-leak in the system.

One other issue that already raises a red flag to me is the little mention that your wife has already had six or severn other preceptors. That alone means that there have been some other type of issues going on with her as well. That is normally not done in the ICU setting.

There is definitely alot more to this story. And if the wife is getting this stressed over working with a preceptor over her, what is going to happen if she gets into anesthesia school? You do not have just one person watching you, but everyone in the room during a case is also watching.

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Specializes in Rural Health.

I have no doubt what your wife said happened or your account of the story. I do however doubt that the preceptor actually did remove the chest tube for 4 hours because I truely believe a nurse with 25 years experience is not that stupid, no matter what point he/she is trying to make. It sounds like yet another test your wife's preceptor is trying to put her through. A cruel and very unusual test, but yet another test. It's like she gave your wife this horrific information, now she's waiting to see what your wife is going to do with this information. With this information though, your wife is now damned if she does and damned if she doesn't, which is probably the position the preceptor wants her in for whatever freakish reason.

With that being said......these people are nuts and I'm not sure I would want to stay working in an environment that doesn't support new orientees to their department and obviously the Unit Manager doesn't support it either if she allows this behavior to go on. There is no way that someone can justify this behavior as "teaching" a new orientee.

I wish her luck in whatever she decides to do!!!

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Specializes in Critical Care, Pediatrics, Geriatrics.
My wife recently posted about the difficulties she has faced in a new ICU job. She is recluctent to leave because it was tough to find the position that she now has. However, just the other day when her preceptor asked her how she thought she was doing and my wife answered "fine" the preceptor basically said "well I've laid some traps for you that you haven't caught." For example (and this was the only specific that she admitted to) the preceptor said that she had disconnected one of client's chest tubes for four hours and that my wife had not caught the error. My response would have been "so you let a patient go without benefit of a chest tube for four hours due to a deliberate act?" . However, my wife simply smiled, said she would try harder, and learned to focus on the "floating ball" that indicates suction. My question is doing stuff like this (introducing errors to test whether the nurse will catch them and then letting those errors be implemented into patient care) ethical and legal?

That is crazy. She is putting the patient in harm's way. She needs to be reported and removed from the ICU! IMMEDIATELY!

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