Is leaving before hurricane abandonment?

Sour Lemon · Sep 10, 2017

dstee009 said:
If you are a HEALTH CARE worker then you know the dangers going in. Do what you want but you are not very good at your job if you want to flee when there could be danger. We are there to help those in need, imo, you are selfish and need not be in health care if your first instinct isn't to stay. get your family out or bring them to the hospital with you. People like OP are in it for the money, plain and simple. If you truly care about what you do as an RN, Dr. etc. then you wouldnt be TRYING to run. you would be trying to stay. I say all this as someone that sent my wife north a few days ago and without hesitation stayed to work through the storm here in Florida. if the medical field in the worst of times isn't for you, then you need to find another career.

You could not be more wrong ...about everything.

Julius Seizure · Sep 10, 2017

canoehead said:
That's exactly what's been said to people who choose to stay, "If you stay, we can't help you."
Hurricane Irma: Some Florida trailer home residents will stay | Bradenton Herald
I assume that includes hospitals. I would not expect police or EHS to endanger their lives to save mine, especially after an evacuation order.

I'm not sure what you mean about that including hospitals? That evacuation includes the hospitals?

The hospitals in the Tampa Bay area did not all evacuate - in fact, some hospitals admitted medically fragile chronic patients just to shelter them during the storm.

Julius Seizure · Sep 10, 2017

Annette413 said:
I'm sorry you are in this position and I think that issues regarding this hurricane and work vs family are going to continue long after this devastating storm passes. However, as has been mentioned, if you don't show up at work it is not abandonment and I don't know any job that fires after a family emergency (which this most certainly applies), but I guess it's possible. There is no way that the admins of the hospital don't know that many people will be evacuating their homes and jobs. I don't know of any facility, especially hospitals, that don't have a natural disaster plan in place, especially Florida. My first advice would be to speak to the hospital and find out what the plan is. Some staff may have the ability and family dynamics to pull a 3 or 4 day live in stint. It IS the facilities responsibility to plan for resource management, staffing, evacuation procedures, power, sanitation, food, water, etc. NOT yours. When push comes to shove, this is a job, not your life and family. I wish you and your family safety. Annette RN

Unfortunately, it is not just an emergency for individual families, but also for the community as a whole. You are absolutely right that hospital administration should (and almost certainly does) have a disaster plan in place - but the plan involves having the employees come to staff the facility. The disaster plan doesn't work if nobody shows up!

JKL33 · Sep 10, 2017

Ruby Vee said:
This isn't a family emergency. It is failure to plan ahead for a known community emergency.
It isn't patient abandonment. It is job abandonment and the facility may well fire the OP. It would be justified. Employers have emergency plans and those plans depend upon employees having the personal integrity to show up for an emergency rather than waiting until the last minute and then hiding behind a small child. It is the employees' responsibility to plan ahead for such an emergency. Or would you rather have your hospitalized mother left to fend for herself because all the nurses with children decided to not show up like the OP?

I will cautiously agree with you. ?

I think if it is a general expectation of the job that one will participate in a disaster situation (agreed upon in advance) and if it is known that the employer is expecting and planning for a disaster, then one should be prepared to uphold his/her ethical obligation to the employer.

Personally, I think it can become a little distasteful and even ethically questionable when the majority of the "plan" consists of compelling others to do something which may or may not have been a clearly-understood and agreed upon aspect of their employment, or else lose their job. For instance, even if I am an ethical employee who doesn't try to "get out of working" on usual occasions, it could still cause significant stress to be told that "what we meant when we said 'you will participate in disasters' was that you will stay here for 4 days at a time'." See, the 4 days of confinement is not a regular expectation of the job (which may have been, say, to work 12 hour shifts with time off in-between those shifts - which allows the RN to meet other non-work obligations). Now if, while preparing to sign a position for employment, my employer presents a policy that says, "You are expected to be available for disaster situations at the employer's discretion, which may include (but is not limited to) reporting to the facility for an extended period of work during which time you will not be allowed to leave" - - well, then, heck yes, you should be prepared to uphold your end of the deal...or else be willing to accept the consequences of not upholding it.

Something I think is interesting is that, in general, we acknowledge that an employer will have additional responsibilites and logistical problems because, well....disaster. The thing is, those same "additional" circumstances apply to employees, too. They, too, have additional barriers to effecting their "every day" plans because....disaster. What it seems like we're saying is that the employee is expected to anticipate everything (such as a storm changing course) and pre-plan accordingly so that they can meet their obligation to the employer....who is allowed to simply compel others to effect their plans. The individual employee can not "compel" anyone for assistance.

I'm saying this without regard to the OP, but just in general.

JKL33 · Sep 10, 2017

An addendum to the above:

There may be employers who have extensive plans to provide assistance to the employees themselves, so that the employees can more easily meet their disaster obligations (assistance such as transportation, food, childcare, etc). This works in everyone's favor - the employee, the employer, and thus the community. But I have no doubt that there are places who would rather just throw down an emotional ultimatum and talk about the obligations of others, rather than having a plan that actually enables it to happen. If you know that it will be logistically difficult for employees to meet the obligation, then you don't have much of a "disaster plan" if you fail to address that issue.

mushyrn, BSN, RN · Sep 10, 2017

Leave your job. Get out if you feel that you need to. These nurses saying "but the patients need to be taken care of..." - so do you and your family, and that should be your #1 priority.

Nurses often seem all to eager to make martyrs out of themselves for a healthcare system that is ALL too willing to do it, and break our backs and lives in the process.

No, you do what is best for you. The patients and facility will figure themselves out, and they should be discharging the patients (many of whom) that don't need to be there in the first place. The rest should be evacuated.

I would NEVER risk my life or safety for ANY employer, because they would never do the same for me - and neither would my patients, in fact. Nurses need to make ourselves and our families the number one priority and cut the crap with this Hero/Martyr syndrome so many of them express.

I hope you left and didn't stay to risk yourself for a company. Good luck to you either way.

suzil · Sep 10, 2017

mushyrn said:
Leave your job. Get out if you feel that you need to. These nurses saying "but the patients need to be taken care of..." - so do you and your family, and that should be your #1 priority.
Nurses often seem all to eager to make martyrs out of themselves for a healthcare system that is ALL too willing to do it, and break our backs and lives in the process.
No, you do what is best for you. The patients and facility will figure themselves out, and they should be discharging the patients (many of whom) that don't need to be there in the first place. The rest should be evacuated.
I would NEVER risk my life or safety for ANY employer, because they would never do the same for me - and neither would my patients, in fact. Nurses need to make ourselves and our families the number one priority and cut the crap with this Hero/Martyr syndrome so many of them express.
I hope you left and didn't stay to risk yourself for a company. Good luck to you either way.

It is not about being a Martyr at all! It is about the patients. I don't know why you went into nursing. I know why I did. Of course my life is important, so is my family's safety. I am certain the hospitals there have plans for the family members and pets. The hospital buildings have to be built to sustain the potential damage of those storms in the area. Just what would you expect the fragile patients to do that are unable to be discharged? Perhaps connected to monitors etc? Most hospitals meet the rigorous safety standards. The buildings (hospitals) must be able to sustain the potential damage of a Cat 5 Hurricane and other storms in that area. I know they have huge reliable generators that are tested regularly to keep them going also. I personally would feel safer with my self and family in the hospital. Don't call us martyrs. You mean that as an insult and that is just so wrong. I have 40 years of experience. All of it in Critical Care areas, then Psych and management. I am a nurse because I love helping people. Plain and simple.

litbitblack, ASN, RN · Sep 10, 2017

I feel its a personal choice. You have an obligation to family first or least thats the way I see it. your employer isn't going to support your child if your alive. and every one saying these buildings were made for these things yeah there were alot of things people felt were prepared and they were not. If you do not have safe place for your child and cannot take him to work or the environment would not be conducive to having a kid i would most certainly not go in...And there is absolutely nothing wrong with you if you decide not and in no way makes you less of a nurse

kbrn2002, ADN, RN · Sep 10, 2017

elkpark said:
The round trip by air is only a few hours each way. Could easily be done in less than a day.

Sure, it could be done if flights aren't delayed or cancelled as so often happens during emergencies. Not to mention if a flight can be found, heaven only knows what those tickets would cost with everybody trying to get out of town.

Kooky Korky, BSN, RN · Sep 10, 2017

greenerpastures said:
Check with your facility. Ours has a policy that if one parent is "law enforcement" and the other is hospital personnel, you can be considered exempt because there isn't anyone to care for your children.

That's a generous policy.

Kooky Korky, BSN, RN · Sep 10, 2017

Ruby Vee said:
For the love of heaven, how could you possibly have NOT known it was coming? Waiting until the night before and then claiming it's all news to you is disingenuous.

Maybe she meant didn't know her schedule. She said she got it at the end of August. Even so, that gave her time to figure out what to do.

She probably wants to keep her son safe and also not lose her job. Hopefully the evacuation orders gave her time off from work.

Kooky Korky, BSN, RN · Sep 10, 2017

dla1618 said:
I thought southern Florida hospitals moved their patients to other hospitals.....unless this isn't a hospital. Screw them.....your child's safety is more important to you...but I'd quit before getting fired. As far as it being the employees responsibility to show up and do their job.....that was an ignorant thing to say because this isn't a normal circumstance. People going to their job in this can get killed. What kind of job would she do and safely at that, if she is always worried about her child. It sounds like you don't have local family like many others don't have. Remember, get it straight.....your family is first, regardless of your job.

She'd probably work through it like everyone else. She'd find a way to keep her anxiety under control and do her job.

Not being hard-hearted, just thinking what else could she do? Become a basket case and need others to look after her or be inspired by coworkers and get through it. Assuming she'd gotten her son to safety.