Is this illegal?

kanzi monkey · Oct 1, 2009

My friend has been working for a nursing home as a CNA for a year. She recently graduated as an LVN and the D.O.N told her that she will start orientation. She signed all the paperwork and gave copies of her license, but did not talk about wage. The D.O.N recently quit right after and did not give the papers to management. Her first paycheck and she still got the wage of a CNA. She then called asking about her pay and she asked if she would get reimbursed and they told her that she wont get the paid. so is that illegal working as an LVN for 2 paychecks [a month] and still getting paid CNA wage without getting reimbursed?

What is the LVN wage at her facility? That is, what will she be getting paid once everything gets straightened out?

If that amount differs from the amount she was making as a CNA, and she has been working in the capacity as an LVN for her former wage, then she should be paid retroactively and I believe the law would support that. As long as there is evidence that she's been working as an LVN, and evidence that she's been paid her former wage during that time, I don't believe the hospital has a even a toe to stand on. Doubt she needs a union for this. Perhaps an attorney.

kanzi monkey · Oct 2, 2009

"can you please explain how it isnt illegal to be getting paid for a title that isnt her title anymore? "
It would be incumbent upon you (your friend) to suggest the law which is being broken.

Say a person worked as a house-keeper at a hotel. That person gets promoted to CEO of the hotel. The paperwork takes a month to clear the bureaucratic channel, so the CEO gets a house-keeper's wage for a month. Uhh, no. That's preposterous. Can you find a law that would support this?

Now, if the facility she works for pays CNAs and LVNs the same wage, I imagine that is their right to do so. But they don't. If she has a different wage for a position that she's maintained for a month, she should be paid that wage for every minute of work.

ohmeowzer RN, RN · Oct 2, 2009

it isn't illegal .. she accepted the pay for it, every hospital you work pays different , if i walked into a nursing home and was a new grad RN and accepted a LPN rate and then worked at that rate for a month , then i find out i should of been getting 10 dollars more an hour , who's fault would it be for not asking and checking my wages? me ... i should of asked is this the rate for a new grad RN? she accepted it , she needs to accept that she got paid less and know she knows to check the rate before she begins a job...... you live and learn.....

dalindinrcp · Oct 2, 2009

Well they gave her the new pay wage, but the hr seems to be giving her the run around and not faxing everything they need to, to get her started with the new wage...and management told her that they are already starting the payroll for the next coming check..so she will again get underpaid..I mean what's the point of HR if you still have to follow up and fax all the necessary papers..even though HR is supposed to be doing it?

And she never accepted the pay wage, because they never brought it up to her.. I mean you can't accept something that wasn't mentioned or given you the chance to accept or decline. Am I right?

Baloney Amputation, BSN, LPN, RN · Oct 2, 2009

Well they gave her the new pay wage, but the hr seems to be giving her the run around and not faxing everything they need to, to get her started with the new wage...and management told her that they are already starting the payroll for the next coming check..so she will again get underpaid..I mean what's the point of HR if you still have to follow up and fax all the necessary papers..even though HR is supposed to be doing it?
And she never accepted the pay wage, because they never brought it up to her.. I mean you can't accept something that wasn't mentioned or given you the chance to accept or decline. Am I right?

I think continuing to work under the LPN license would constitute implied agreement.

I don't think I'd work anywhere without ASKING what the heck the wage was, either.

Batman24 · Oct 2, 2009

Well they gave her the new pay wage, but the hr seems to be giving her the run around and not faxing everything they need to, to get her started with the new wage...and management told her that they are already starting the payroll for the next coming check..so she will again get underpaid..I mean what's the point of HR if you still have to follow up and fax all the necessary papers..even though HR is supposed to be doing it?
And she never accepted the pay wage, because they never brought it up to her.. I mean you can't accept something that wasn't mentioned or given you the chance to accept or decline. Am I right?

She needs to get more assertive. She needs to go in and get management involved tomorrow and not work another shift until they rectify her pay. If they are saying she is being underpaid again once they are aware of the problem and won't pay her retroactively now that they are aware she better start looking for another job. She already ate two weeks and I would be damned before I ate another day of it.

Your friend should never have started this job without getting the new pay rate in writing. That's on her. That was a terrible move on her part. I wouldn't have worked one second without that in writing and on record. What she needs to do now is take a stand and not let it continue into another pay period.

kanzi monkey · Oct 2, 2009

The wage for this person's new job is higher than the CNA wage. Doesn't matter what was communicated, or if s/he had his/her act together enough to ask. S/he accepted the job, and therefore accepted the wage that comes with that job. Usually it's nice to have an explicit conversation about pay prior to taking a job, but tacit or explicit, the wage doesn't change (though the LVN missed the opportunity to negotiate the salary, if it was negotiable).

If the LVN agreed to take the position without knowing what the pay was, and then decided it was too low after starting the job, that's the LVNs problem. But if she's practicing as an LVN, how does it make any sense at all that she'd be getting paid as a CNA? Unless there's a policy that explicitly says the wage only begins once payroll is in order (which does not happen), it's a non-issue. She gets paid for the job she does (or he).

If they say they're going to underpay her again, she should immediately discontinue working there as an LVN until they can pay her for the job that she is CURRENTLY DOING. And she should find legal representation to help her get paid retroactively.

Wow, this really gets my goat. How anyone could believe that it's ok to be paid less than the established wage for a particular role is beyond me. I don't care if the LVN didn't negotiate (or even communicate) about her pay--whatever her wage is being raised to is the amount she should have been making all along.

Ridiculous.

-Kan

In the interest of full disclosure, I don't actually have a goat.

nicurn001 · Oct 2, 2009

As a contributer to this thread said , if the nurse feels a law has been broken it is for her to find out what that law is , inform management of their breach of the law and contact the appropriate authority if they do not correct the problem .

We can pontificate as much as we like on this thread , but it won't make an iota of difference to this nurse .

YES it is morally reprehensible what this employer is doing , using that argument of course she should be paid correctly .

No the employer is not legally bound to make up the difference as no law has been broken .

None of us has identified a law that has been broken . If she is employed in an at will location , she hasn't a leg to stand on .

As another contributer mentioned , of course a CEO wouldn't be treated like this , because their CONTRACT would stipulate their terms of employment , so if their contract was breached in this manner they could seek restitution . Very few of us have contracts , so this and similar problems crop up ( eg. job offers withdrawn after having uprooted famly , with no compensation ).

Simple way to correct this problem , is to have a contract , but that would probably mean you would have to unionize , and as many contributers to alnurse , seem to view that as akin to selling your soul , nurses will continue to be treat as this employer , treats its employees !

MikeyBSN · Oct 2, 2009

"My friend has been working for a nursing home as a CNA for a year. She recently graduated as an LVN and the D.O.N told her that she will start orientation. She signed all the paperwork and gave copies of her license, but did not talk about wage."

Theoretically, they could have paid her minimum wage and it wouldn't be illegal. You always need to talk about wages before you start.

belgarion · Oct 2, 2009

I think what we have here is one of those hard life lessons. Business management school was a long time ago but from what I am reading, what is going on is ethically wrong but still legal. Since you are saying she is now an LVN I have to assume this is either Texas or California. The only thing I know about Cali law is that it seems to have been written by Abbott and Costello. If you are in Texas, you are definitely in a work at will state. She might could fight this thing out but I learned a long time ago that this is a fight that even if you win you lose. My advice is to find another job and file this experience under "life education".

MikeyBSN · Oct 2, 2009

I don't know why everyone thinks there are all of these employment laws out there that protect people. Perhaps you there should be, but there are not. Basically, if you don't a contract, the employer can do whatever they want, so long as it is not prohibited by statute. Which basically means they can't fire you based on race, sex, religion, disability or national origin, but that's about it. Oh yeah, and they can't fire you for trying to start a union.

dalindinrcp · Oct 2, 2009

Thanks for all the help. It just sucks how greedy companies can get. And there are loop holes that keep the middle wage community down. Yea she should have been more assertive at things, but this place has been known for these kinds of things. Oh well. Ill give the update on what happens..thanks again!