Is it fianally time to retire NETY?

[OrganizedChaos, LVN]

My guess is NETY is brought up often because it is what the posters believe they are experiencing and they want to discuss this/ask for help, or they want to educate themselves about this particular type of bullying.

But why the need to call it "NETY"? Why not just say, "I think I'm being bullied, this is what is going on". Why give it a name? It is put on a pedestal, focused on & made to seem more important than other types of bullying. There is no good reason why "NETY" should still be around.

Why can't we use the words, lateral violence, horizontal violence, harassment, bullying & drama? Focusing on one aspect of this helps no one.

[Susie2310]

But why the need to call it "NETY"? Why not just say, "I think I'm being bullied, this is what is going on". Why give it a name? It is put on a pedestal, focused on & made to seem more important than other types of bullying. There is no good reason why "NETY" should still be around.

Why can't we use the words, lateral violence, horizontal violence, harassment, bullying & drama? Focusing on one aspect of this helps no one.

Sometimes people do say to the effect of "I think I'm being bullied; here's the problem." But there's no reason to not use NETY if this identifies the type of bullying they're talking about, when we know what NETY means, unless we want to say that people's egos are more important than identifying who is doing the bullying. Being specific helps bring the problem out into the open. It is important to identify who is doing the bullying, in all cases of bullying. Just generalizing the problem i.e. "lateral violence" doesn't tell us who is bullying who, and it is important to know who is bullying who if we want to eradicate the problem.

[OrganizedChaos, LVN]

Sometimes people do say to the effect of "I think I'm being bullied; here's the problem." But there's no reason to not use NETY if this identifies the type of bullying they're talking about, when we know what NETY means, unless we want to say that people's egos are more important than identifying who is doing the bullying. Being specific helps bring the problem out into the open. It is important to identify who is doing the bullying, in all cases of bullying. Just generalizing the problem i.e. "lateral violence" doesn't tell us who is bullying who, and it is important to know who is bullying who if we want to eradicate the problem.

Then be specific in the post by saying my charge nurse, preceptor or coworker. There is absolutely no reason to use "NETY". If you go on forum for doctor's do you think they talk about doctor's or residents eating their young? No. I have never once heard of any other medical professional discuss this ridiculous buzz word.

If you do a quick Google search for "eating their young" other than animals, you will see that is it a term relegated to nursing only. How immature does that make the field of nursing look???

By continuing to use "NETY" nurses will continue to be looked down at because it will seem like all we do is gossip & stir up drama.

[amzyRN]

Sometimes people do say to the effect of "I think I'm being bullied; here's the problem." But there's no reason to not use NETY if this identifies the type of bullying they're talking about, when we know what NETY means, unless we want to say that people's egos are more important than identifying who is doing the bullying. Being specific helps bring the problem out into the open. It is important to identify who is doing the bullying, in all cases of bullying. Just generalizing the problem i.e. "lateral violence" doesn't tell us who is bullying who, and it is important to know who is bullying who if we want to eradicate the problem.

But is it true (with verifiable evidence) that in general older nurses bully younger nurses? Would you mind pointing out the actual research on this. What I've read did not seem very solid, that a particular age range or expeirence level had a higher incidence of bullying.

What's your definition of bullying, a few quick examples? What's an example of "NETY" compared to other types of bullying? I want to understand more about what other people think "NETY"/ bullying is. I'm not trying to be argumentative, I honestly just want to understand different perpectives.

[Susie2310]

But is it true (with verifiable evidence) that in general older nurses bully younger nurses? Would you mind pointing out the actual research on this. What I've read did not seem very solid, that a particular age range or expeirence level had a higher incidence of bullying.

What's your definition of bullying, a few quick examples? What's an example of "NETY" compared to other types of bullying? I want to understand more about what other people think "NETY"/ bullying is. I'm not trying to be argumentative, I honestly just want to understand different perpectives.

Older/experienced nurses bullying younger inexperienced nurses is one demographic of bullying that nurses experience. Of course there are others. As to the frequency of older/experienced nurses bullying younger inexperienced nurses you will need to research this yourself.

Please read my earlier posts on this thread - I provided a definition of bullying.

[OrganizedChaos, LVN]

Older/experienced nurses bullying younger inexperienced nurses is one demographic of bullying that nurses experience. Of course there are others. As to the frequency of older/experienced nurses bullying younger inexperienced nurses you will need to research this yourself.

Please read my earlier posts on this thread - I provided a definition of bullying.

It only makes nurses look bad by using "NETY". What other group of professionals uses a term similar to "NETY"? None! We seem immature, bratty, dramatic, whiny & bratty. There are *so* many other words to describe what they are going through. Not only that but new grads aren't the only ones who get bullied.

I understand older nurses bullying younger nurses is one demographic but so is the opposite but there is no slang term for that. What about NETO? Nurses eat their old? Think that'll catch on?

Unless you have substantial stats of new grads *actually* being bullied (not their version of bullying, i.e.: staff won't be their friend after 1 day) & a set definition of bullying "NETY" needs to end.

[amzyRN]

I agree that NETY is often wrongly applied and that these misapplications are often cited as evidence that bullying of newer nurses by more experienced nurses is not really a problem of any magnitude. And while some people appear to cry NETY for situations that do not really appear to constitute bullying, i.e. a deliberate pattern of behavior designed to hurt/undermine another person, other people factually report details of being on the receiving end of actual repeated behavior (verbal or actions) that appears to be meant to weaken/injure them. So I don't see any reason to retire NETY, because NETY exists in reality. Furthermore, the ANA has recognized bullying as a workplace problem.

Those are good definitions but might you provide an example you have seen applied by older nurses against younger nurses in particular?

Do you think biological age has anything to do with this? I don't, but perhaps you have a different opinion.

[K9lover, ASN, RN]

From what you are saying it sounds as if it has perhaps morphed into NETO. Being sober for a couple of decades has helped me with resentments but I still succumb from time to time; I don't know if (some of) the young being all-knowing is limited to nursing having raised teen-agers.

I have a rather new brother-in law who drinks like a fish, he knew my history and said "I hear you are an alcoholic!" I said "I hear you are one also!" I'd already been told he wasn't offended by such matters and he just laughed. I tell him we are saving a seat for him ;-)

[K9lover, ASN, RN]

I just love this song by Glenn Frey! Yes, I am guilty at times too as I try & do a lil inventory of each day ;-)

I turn on the tube and what do I see

A whole lotta people cryin' "Don't blame me"

They point their crooked little fingers at everybody else

Spend all their time feelin' sorry for themselves

Victim of this, victim of that

Your momma's too thin; your daddy's too fat

Get over it

Get over it

All this whinin' and cryin' and pitchin' a fit

Get over it, get over it

You say you haven't been the same since you had your little crash

But you might feel better if they gave you some cash

The more I think about it, Old Billy was right

Let's kill all the lawyers, kill 'em tonight

You don't want to work; you want to live like a king

But the big, bad world doesn't owe you a thing

Get over it

Get over it

If you don't want to play, then you might as well split

Get over it, get over it

It's like going to confession every time I hear you speak

You're makin' the most of your losin' streak

Some call it sick, but I call it weak

You drag it around like a ball and chain

You wallow in the guilt; you wallow in the pain

You wave it like a flag, you wear it like a crown

Got your mind in the gutter, bringin' everybody down

Complain about the present and blame it on the past

I'd like to find your inner child and kick its little ass

Get over it

Get over it

All this ******** and moanin' and pitchin' a fit

Get over it, get over it

Get over it

Get over it

It's gotta stop sometime, so why don't you quit

Get over it, get over it

Get over it

[K9lover, ASN, RN]

I agree, I had a horrible go of it as a new grad. Not so much the older nurses, I remember some of the nurses in their 60s & 70s being quite kind actually. I was @ 35 when I embarked upon this & it was (some of) the experienced nurses my age who were just obnoxious; quite condescending as I'd been a waitress for years and, apparently, there were those who seemed to feel anyone who waited tables was not their intellectual peer. Once a few colleagues got to know me I'd hear things such as "my, you are intelligent for a waitress..." I was not aware ones' I.Q. could be determined by ones' vocation. If one is not getting the respect one thinks they merit I don't feel putting down those in the service sector is most apropos manner of boosting self-esteem. I feel that years of waiting tables was the #1 factor in being able to 'play well' with the public; my previous career choice was also tremendously helpful in multi-tasking. Looking back on it the worst offenders were insecure in many ways, one became a good friend however I think we have a way to go in that 'lateral' violence/harassment is still too widely accepted.

[Kooky Korky, BSN, RN]

OP, I like the expression and find it deftly expresses my belief. Of course, I also like Nurses Also Eat Their Old and Their Middle Aged.

[nursel56]

I think "nurses eat their young" must have started far away from my location. I had never heard that term until I saw it here. Neither did I ever have the thought to myself "these older nurses really hate the young nurses! I realize that perhaps there is a trend in that direction due to the number of posts we have on that topic.

What frustrates me is that even if we are all in agreement this exists, we would still have our hands tied. The terms and their meaning are all over the map. so we cannot effectively advise people. Then we have the internet itself hindering our ability to get a clear fix on the problem. We shouldn't askpeople to divulge details.

Lately, I've noticed a striking number of research papers delving into nurses subjective experiences with this, which causes sort of a snowball effect that generates it's own momentum.

I'm hoping that at some point we can find a way to break the broad terminology into smaller facets and improve on focusing on realistic solutions.

Just on this board I've seen posts that claim the bullying that can range from failure to say a cheery greeting in the hallway to someone who described how she had a patient go sideways in a hurry, and not only did her coworkers refuse to help, they mocked her mercilessly as she floundered. She left as her patient was sent to ICU. When she returned to work she was greeted with. "Oh, by the way, your patient died." Yeah.

It's fair to say that any one of us Crusty Old Bats would be happy to have a "little chat" with them.

The first person said she was being bullied, the second wasn't sure, but there is no viable response that fits both.